Loewe compose on the fmj

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by leon, Sep 9, 2007.

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  1. leon

    leon
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    we just picked up my first LOEWE 1080p 40"tv and had a chance to fire up the old fmj 139 in 1080p mode rather than 720p and how can i say it in one word ??

    AAAAAWWSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEE:eek::eek::eek:

    totally i cannot imagine that picture can get better ( i know they will ) but for now my 350 sd dvd are safe and playing loverly ..i will still wait for the silly big boys to battle out hi-def in the mean time i am a happy bunny ..
     
  2. leon

    leon
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    do you think the picture im getting from the 139 is better/same than a say £1000 blu ray player ??
     
  3. AmerArcamOwner

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    I don't know about a Blu-Ray player but the Toshiba HD-XA2 (American Model) looks just as good if not better than my 139 on standard DVD up converted to 1080p without all the HDMI headaches I have experienced with the 139 and it only cost me $550.00 American along with 5 free HD-DVD's from Toshiba and 3 from Amazon.

    Am in the process of procurring a Pioneer Elite BPD-94HD Blu-Ray player, they just showed their new one at the CEDIA show here in the USA so I am expecting quite a drop in price. I don't care about the interactive crap...I just want to watch movies. And I am not concerned about the new audio formats...won't make a difference in the room I have my setup.

    My 139 is going back to my dealer....no longer reads the SACD layer on SACD's or the 5.1 layer on my DVD-Audios....and this is after the 137 I had died twice in the first 6 weeks....
     
  4. leon

    leon
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    thx for the info .. im sitting on the fence still waiting for maybe an arcam blu ray or denon
     
  5. PenguinHiFi

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    Hi,

    Well, the question about knowing if the HD picture f a 650£ player i better than the picture of a 1800£ SD DVD player is a matter that can be debated for hours and hours without finding a unanimous position.

    Even though, I would like to share my experience and my thoughts about it.

    Tested in A/B comparison were an Arcam DV79 and Blue-Ray from (I can't remember, but I think it was Toshiba) both connected on a Sony Bravia LCD KDL 46W2000. This display is Full HD 1080p and offers a sharp, but soft image. So it's a LCD that is near to the Plasma rendering. Of course, both players were connected using HDMI interface and the purpose of the seller was to have me to buy the HD player, so I can't suspect him to have tweaked it's inputs to have make the HD looking worse than the SD player.

    Movie played was "King-Kong" which, from what I heard, is considered as a good transfer on HD media.

    Both players started the movie at the same time and we just changed the source on the Sony LCD to look at the differences.

    Here's my conclusion. Even on the DV79 from Arcam, which if I am not wrong doesn't include a scaler, the picture quality was superb. The picture coming out of the HD player was, honestly, slightly better... but only slightly. A little sharper, but just a little. It was something visible in a direct A/B comparison... But who will ever notice it when watching a movie at home ?

    Besides, what has to be considered is the fact that the DV139 is a universal player, that will read almost every format (excluding the HD ones, of course) and from every media (CD, CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-Video, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD-A, MP3 CD or MP3 DVD, DivX, SACD Stereo, SACD multichannel and some others). Are the new HD players so versatile ? Not that I know of... And when will there be HD-DVD-R or HD-DVD-RW ?

    Another aspect that has to be considered is the audio part. Will the HD player beat the SD player in audio-mode ? Will the DTS-HD and the TrueDolby HD formats beat the actual DTS and Dolby formats ? Sure they will... at least on the specifications. But the last thing to consider in audio are the specs... If so, the japanese players would all beat hands down every english, american, german or french audiophile CD players. So, can anyone explain to me why the CD192 sounds better than the Denon 3910 or 3930 ?

    Will your actual HD player be able to reproduce all the medias available in a decade, like the actual DVD players can ? They can't even play them all today ! Even worse, on Blue-Ray, new specifications are added on a weekly basis and players bought 2 months ago can't offer all the multimedia features of the actual BR disks... And guess what : there's just no upgrade available. How can a company release a product that is based on non definitive white paper and not make it future proof ? This just puzzles me.

    And are you ready to spend 15 or 20£ to get a new movie when the vast majority of DVD movies are now to be found for 5 to 10£ in every store ?

    And look at this poor guy who has bought a brand new High-Quality plasma (or LCD) in 46 inch and paid 2500£ for it 18 months ago. Guess what ! He doesn't have "Full HD". So you MUST have "Full HD". OK. I'll go and buy a full HD plasma (or LCD). Cool, now I have my Full HD TV. But guess what ! You're just a looser because you do not have HDMI in it's 1.3 version... OK guys, I'll go to get a brand new Full HD, HDMI 1.3 loaded plasma (or LCD). Cool... But guess what ? Aren't you a looser because your TV doesn't handle the 24i format so when there's a slow traveling your image isn't fluid as it should be ? Cool.. I'll go to buy me that new Plasma (or LCD) that will be Full HD, loaded with HDMI 1.3 and supports 24fps. My only question now is : what will be next ? I can't imagine those marketing ingeneers stopping introducing new features that are "must haves" and that you won't even notice a difference. I herewith declare that I defy anyone to tell which is Full HD or not when looking at a good Pioneer HD-Ready Plasma compared to a brand new Panasonic which is Full HD...

    Of course, you can do what you want. But I won't be for sure the one who will throw money away to be a beta tester for Sony, Pioneer or Toshiba. And, as the difference I've seen is real but not that great (don't expect to be amazed like when you went from VHS to DVD... we've reached a quality that is great already !), I am not willing to spend money NOW for the HD itch. I'll do it when the format war will be over and the media available for 8-12£. Maybe in 2 or 3 years.

    And I really do believe that, if you like what you see on your Loewe Compose and that is coming out of standard SD DVD player, and especially if you like the music coming out of it, be it in HC mode, CD mode, DVD-A mode or SACD mode, then stick to it... And don't go for a change just because your neighbour claims he has a bigger d... uh-ho television than yours...

    Remember : "Seing is believing. Listening is being convinced". And forget that "I want to believe" crap... So see... and listen for yourself.

    Regards.

    Penguin HiFi
     
  6. AmerArcamOwner

    AmerArcamOwner
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    Arcam DV137 Died twice in first two months, no audio support at 1080p over HDMI, HDMI problems, $1,999.00 American.

    Arcam DV139, No audio support over HDMI, No longer reads SACD / DVD-Audio Discs, major HDMI problems, 2 months old, $3,499.00 American

    Reading all the other threads on this forum I think Arcam is using their customers as beta testers.

    With the money I am getting back for my 139 I have bought:

    Toshiba HD-XA2 - 8 free movies - Upconversion looks just as good if not better than the Arcams....no HDMI problems at all, plays every disc I put in. Audio support at 1080p over HDMI

    On order: Have not received yet

    Pioneer BDP-94D Blu Ray

    Pioneer DV-46AV Universal Player - Had a Pioneer DV578-A f($150.00 American) ran for two years no problems

    Pioneer PD-D6-J Stereo SACD/CD Player

    1080p HDMI Switcher

    Analog 5.1 Audio switcher

    New interconnects

    New front speaker cables

    New subwoofer cable

    And I will probably have money left over for a whole slew of HD movies

    And yes HD movies are a large step up from upconverted SD movies on my JVC 56" HD-ILA...in fact no comparison. When I played the standard version of King Kong on the 139 and then the HD version on the Toshiba....night and day, not even close

    If you choose to play in the electronics game, technology always changes and it is a personal decision when and what to buy. I personally choose to upgrade every 8-10 years or so.

    After my divorce I decided to get into the high end game with Arcam....bad mistake....

    Now I am going back to all seperates with Pioneer, have owned Pioneer equipment most of my life until recently and never had any problems with any piece of equipment. In fact as I upgraded I gave the older equipment to family members and friends and its still working. Figured I'd go with the flavor of the day, listened to the so called experts, but that is a decision I regret and won't make again.

    So after 6 months of hell with Arcam I am done with them and am glad to be in the HD game.
     
  7. jackal

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    With all due respect to the other posters on here, saying that SD DVD on even the very best upscaling player (my Denon is among the best....) can match either HD DVD or Blu ray is quite a folly.

    There is no comparison. HD disc based media is in another league altogether.

    If you are happy with SD DVD performance, then fine - but don't say it holds a candle to true HD - believe me it does not.

    HD pictures are a true revelation, colour definition, image sharpness, resolution is superb on both HD DVD and Blu ray.

    My Denon cost £1k, picture wise it is far surpassed by my other cheaper HD players. My goodness even my stop gap playstation 3 embarrasses the 3930.

    Perhaps the biggest gain is with audio. Dolby TrueHD and uncompressed PCM sound superb in my opinion.

    Leon we now share a power amp in common, I am watching Happy feet HD DVD in Dolby TrueHD and the results are truly stunning in regard to both audio and picture.

    I understand the reticence to invest by some in a format that may not last, but if you want the best that disc based media can offer at the moment, then buy a HD DVD player, Blu ray player (preferably both) and you will not regret it.
     
  8. jackal

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    Just before I get shot down here, I have owned a lot of Arcam gear, in fact I grew up with it.

    I would suggest to John Dawson that Arcam need to get their skates on regarding HD Audio and video. Searches of this forum would be the best indication of where the AV market is going. Arcam need to adapt and stop making excuses such as the poor performance of audio over HDMI. HDMI is here to stay and Arcam need to embrace it fully.

    I would not be surprised if the sales of AVR 280 + equipment has dropped off significantly. Why spend thousands on equipment that is possibly already obsolete.

    Come on Arcam, bring out some great HDMI HD audio/visual products and show us all how it should be done.............
     
  9. PenguinHiFi

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    Hi Jackal,

    It's with some interest that I read your reply.
    Please : do not misunderstand what I wrote : HD picture is better than SD picture. But according to what I saw on a 46' LCD display, I didn't see th same thing you are describing.
    Two things should be mentioned :
    1°) I probably did not watch at the right place to appreciate the difference in A/B comparison. I focused on the faces and skin tones of Naomi WATTS who was in the "main frame" and didn't really look closely at what was behind. And this is, as I am told, where HD offers more clarity. As for the rest, HD image was a little sharper, but as I said, not that much and when you're at home alone, you won't even think about it.
    2°) There's another thing that might be an explanation. I read, really often, that Philips or Samsung LDC displays offer a brilliant picture quality, with a picture that is vivid and with cutting edge sharpness. Well, maybe it is true, but as far as I trust my eyes, each time I watched a Philips LDC display, I really did not like it. So maybe there are also different sensibilities to what "super sharp image" offers... But that is a debate without ending, so I will not enter it.

    Of course, I am not willing to force my view of HD qualtities and neutrality upon any member of this forum. Just sharing a personal thought.

    Regards.

    PenguinHiFi
     
  10. leon

    leon
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    thanks for the info guys .. i will keep looking around for the next month or 2 to see if any more blu ray players turn up .. just read that denon are launching one .. wish arcam would get there finger out and at least give us some info ... a simple yes we are looking into a blu /hd dvd player watch this space ... not sure i would buy a samsung or tosh .i see that these companies have make quite a few models in just one year so i dont want to buy something that is a proto type .. another problem is that i have over 300 sd and i was to buy a machine now then i would only have around 10 blu disks .. not sure if the time is right yet .. from the hd demo on the pc that i have seen then yes i am missing something :( but i would rather wait for say a fmj blu ray machine for around £1500 and i would no it would last and give me a top quality performance ... this is like being trapped between a rock and a hard place ..:mad:
     
  11. TopMeTom

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    What about a ps3 to start with? I like my dv29, mind you where in kent are you? May be able to bring my ps3 round for you to see?
     
  12. leon

    leon
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    thx philb never thought of the ps3.. would be a good stop gap ..i am very close to maidstone
     
  13. TopMeTom

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    I'm in biggin hill not that far, the ps3 is VERY good as a blu-ray player! 5th element is stunning mate
     
  14. Dankeech

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    Must agree, watched 'Deja Vu' on my friend's PS3 running through Sharp Aquos LC42XD1E and it was stunning. Little doubt the Loewe would be even better

    Dan.
     
  15. PenguinHiFi

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    Hi DanKeech,

    Well, I guess Sharp and Loewe will have picture qualities that might be very similar. As a matter of fact, you might be aware that Loewe is too small a company to develop it's own displays. And guess who Loewe has chosen as a supplier ? Sharp...

    Regards.

    Penguin HiFi
     
  16. leon

    leon
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    true what loewe do is use the screen but put it with higher quality components .. i think there are only 5 Manufacturers of lcd world wide b& o do the same ..:)
     
  17. Timbo21

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    Not necessarily.

    I would agree with your statement when viewing on particularly large screens, but on a screen around up to around 46" the differences are not great, and the DV139 can look absoloutely stunning on these size displays. Whack the image up to 100" and the differences increase.

    Since the OP has a 40" TV, I think he is no doubt seeing a truly awesome picture, which would only be marginally bettered by HD, and if he didn't have an HD player I don't think he would miss it at all.

    T.
     
  18. PenguinHiFi

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    Timbo,

    You got a point there.
    In fact, I did the A/B comparison on a 46" LCD, and as I said, there was a difference, but definitely not a grat one. At least not one that would make me decide to go on the HD side at once... especially with all the limitations and futureproofless aspect.

    Regards.

    Penguin HiFi
     

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