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Loewe: Component (generally) worse than RGB?

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Barry Bingham, Jul 6, 2003.

  1. Barry Bingham

    Barry Bingham
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    Recently had opprtunity to play with a Tosh 330 DVD deck alongside my usual Denon and took opportunity to link it up using both my RGB only QED SQART and "component to scart" QED SQART AV2930.

    The Tosh's RGB performance using a QED RGB-only SQART was pretty damn good for such a cheap player although a tad short of my Denon. But blacks were black, detail was all present and the Loewe depth effect there too. I know others have suggested that there is little advantage in using the AV29 or similar as against using RGB out via a similar quality SCART-SCART, but I was intrigued. I tried every flavour of component in the Loewe's AV3 options and I'm even more intrigued now because:

    1. With DVDs and in every case (NTSC or R2) the "component" DVD picture is "flatter" than that via RGB - even a tad washed out. The detail is there but blacks are no longer black - they are grey. Revert to RGB with either of my decks and blacks are fully and richly BLACK.

    2. But using the Tosh's picture viewing facility for JPEGs reveals a huge benefit with the AV29/"component" link. Images off a CD-R are MUCH sharper and colours actually RICHER than on RGB....

    what the fudge????? Any thoughts anyone? I know the Tosh is a budget jobbie but these results seem bizarre. I love the picture view facility and if I wanted to do this with any jpeg enabled deck I'd have to find a quality loss way of sharing AV3 to get best from JPEGS and from movies.. (I can't get the Tosh won't output RGB via the AV29...) But mainly I just wonder if anyone can explain this...
     
  2. Buckster

    Buckster
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    Barry,

    I had similar issues: bought a AV29 sqart for my Pioneer 656 / Vitros setup and found R1 - NTSC looked OK - but R2 PAL looked washed out - didn't notice the blacks - but certainly colours weren't as vivid - even less so than on S-Video.

    In the end I've gone back to RGB as I couldn't see an advantage to the Component in.

    Thought it was my DVD player doing something odd - perhaps not.

    Mark.
     
  3. groundy

    groundy
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    I'm going against the grain here but I have found the opposite to be true on my Aconda with Component (YUV Sync on Y) being noticeably better than RGB. I'm fortunate in that I can do a pretty good comparison with the same QED Av29 cable for both signal types because my Arcam DV88+ can output RGBs via it's YPbPr RCA sockets (Sync from composite RCA output).

    I sat and tested it one night for ages but Component always came out on top for both NTSC & PAL sources. Colours, particulalry Greens in Predator and The Thin Red Line, had more depth and vibrancy than on RGB. RGB image was lacking in richness and was also softer.

    Saying that, I spent many nights calibrating the Colour/Contrast/Brightness/Sharpness settings for Component Input on the Loewe. I never got round to doing this with RGB but if I ever do, the RGB image might be just as good!

    As it is, I'm more than happy with the AV29 cable and YUV Sync on Y setting :). Stick with what your eyes tell you is best ;).
     
  4. Barry Bingham

    Barry Bingham
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    Thanks guys. I've been playing with it a bit more and the results, together with Buckster's "sub s-video" experience, make me think this: For some reason the Tosh/Aconda combination set to YUV & sync on Y is only displaying a COMPOSITE picture.

    I connected the Tosh's RGB Scart to AV2 to enable side by side comparison on split screen. With the Tosh set to Video (as Tosh manual advises for component out) and AV3 to YUV, AV3 should be showing the component fed image, AV2 a composite image. The result - although AV3 was a tad sharper, colourwise the two pictures were indistinguishable. Washed out, a tad reddish with greyish space in "Starship Troopers".

    Switching the Tosh to RGB naturally causes the AV3 image to disappear but gives, on AV2, a colourful picture full of deep blacks and glorious Loewe depth........

    As I said before however the Toshiba's JPEG picture viewer is the mirror image of this - with the AV29 feed on YUV giving fuller, richer - and sharper- renditions of my holiday snaps.

    Like I said before: what the fudge??????????
     
  5. groundy

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    I would imagine the reason for this is down to the Toshiba's Component output workings in conjunction with the QED AV29 cable. With this cable you have the CVBS Composite RCA Phono connected to your Tosh at the same time as the YPbPr RCA Phono's. By setting your Tosh to "Video" and having a line out connected to the Composite Video output socket, the Tosh is probably outputting a Composite signal instead of Component.

    Test this by disconnecting the AV29's yellow CVBS (Sync) RCA Phono plug from the back of the tosh. Leave the other 5 Phono's in place (Component + Audio) and do what you did above. You should pnly be able to get a Component signal on the Loewe now as there will be no Composite line connected. Hopefully the differences between YUV Sync on Y on AV3 and Composite Video via Scart into AV2 will be hugely apparent.
     
  6. Barry Bingham

    Barry Bingham
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    Groundy

    Thanks. I've done as you suggest. And there is an improvement - blacks are black again on AV3. In fact by setting Tosh output to s-video rather than video I was able to get the same result while leaving yellow in CVBS for aspect switching.

    However the resulting image is still some way short of what I get with RGB. It still has a reddish cast. I applied a negative (blue) tint to compensate but it still lacks the depth of the RGB image.

    Except of course on JPEGs where the images are (from a modest distance!) still unbelievably close to PC monitor quality using AV29 and AV3 on YUV. Conversely the Tosh's RGB rendering of these pictures is very poor - in fact I married a £50 Cyberhome to the Aconda and found that it comprehensively trashed the Toshiba for RGB rendering of JPEGs. It's RGB performance on DVDs also outperforms the Tosh on YUV...........!!!???!!!!

    Think I may stick with my Denon on RGB at AV3 for DVDs and hook up the Cyberhome to AV2 or even AV1 (on s-vid it's still better than the Tosh on RGB!!!!) purely for viewing my digicam snaps.... a bizarre outcome but unless there's some secret that I've missed it seems that short of possibly investing in an alternative higher end player (like your Arcam perhaps, Groundy) there really is nothing to be gained from using the AV29. I don't want to constantly be swapping players and settings on AV3 just to look at photos.....
     

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