Discussion in 'Sport' started by raigraphixs, Jun 10, 2005.
Liverpool are the only team I have ever supported and I know that this is simply.....wrong.
As a sports player/fan you play to the rules and not demand that they are changed to suit one outfit.
Sorry but I cannot wish them well for this competition next year.
City dont go into EUFA
And so they should be!
Only in the first qualifying round though. Interesting to see if there's any reaction from the other English teams (Everton in particular) at the loss of TV revenue now that they'll have to share it with Liverpool.
Much as I'd like to see them defend their title, this is just wrong...
It was always going to happen... An world-class comp like this cannot do without it's current champions....
Only down side is the amount of games we will have to play to get to the group stages... No more hols for those guys... get back to training!!!!!
emotinally I am pleased for them and particularly for Gerrard who I really admire
I haven't seen all the details as yet but as long as they haven't taken another teams position then I'm happy they'e in I've heard that they aren't getting the same amount of revenue as the other teams and they aren't country tied so they can pull anyone in the qualifying rounds. They seem to have done it as fairly as they could and at least they have said that this situation won't happen again as the rules will be changed to allow for it.
Because they are going into the early qualifying rounds however it does mean that the first match is mid July I can see some transfer news being announced shortly....
Then you are the only Liverpool fan on the planet who thinks that. Assuming that you are indeed a Liverpool fan.
Why do you think that UEFA cannot change the rules to their own competition? They did it to remove the second group stage. Are you saying that they shouldn't have done that?
If the holders come from any country other than England, Italy and Spain, they'd have got into the competition. Would it have then been fair that Liverpool were excluded when a German team would have been able to defend it?
UEFA was an ass for not changing it when it happened to Real Madrid. Look at poor Real Zaragoza - they lost out on millions from being demoted to the UEFA Cup. They were then relegated and languish in the lower divisions. Who knows if they'd have gone down with the extra cash that being in the Champions League brings with it.
Oh well, I'm sure Stevie G and the boys won't be losing any sleep from not having the support of such a committed "fan" as you.
Just for reference, this is what's happening for next year's competition.
The key points:
Liverpool get the smallest share of England's television money if they reach the group stages.
But any other English teams involved - from Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United and Everton - will still get less money than they would have done were Liverpool not involved.
Liverpool get no "country protection" which means if they progress through two qualifying stages they could face Everton or Manchester United - who enter at the third qualifying round - depending on who is seeded.
If the Reds make it through to the group stages, they could be drawn to face Chelsea, who they beat in the semi-finals last season, or Arsenal, again depending on who is seeded.
In future, the title holders will be entered automatically
yep totally made up we are RIGHTFULLY in the competition. abit degrading for the holders to be in round one.
hahaha chard you crack me up mate thats great. i wouldnt bother watching them if thats the attitude you have im sure we wont miss you.
hope we draw everton in the 3rd round qualifier and knock them out that would make my year
Wish I'd have put money on this now...
That would make my year, decade and millenium! Although, seeing the Toffees get stuffed by the Maltese League champions would raise more than a little smile too!
Great news, as expected, however I cant help feeling how embarrassing it will be for them if they dont get through the qualifying rounds. Potential banana skins all the way to the group stages
I would agree... I think that the holders should be in the competition anyway BUT... the rules said that they werent and therefore they shouldnt be!!
The rules where there when this years Champions League kicked off and therefore the should have been adhered to right to the death.
Another mess created by the governing bodies.... the lay out of european tournements is rotten... the amount of 'non-trophy winning' teams that are in the tournements is rotten and this latest change of rules is rotten also
Well obviously they can.
But as to whether they should, I'm with Chard on this one. Liverpool DID have the chance to defend the cup. But they failed to qualify.
In exactly the same way, Brazil could have failed to qualify for the world cup.
It would have been totally fair. The rules of the German, Spanish or Italian FA were set up to take account of this situation. Ours werent'.
I didn't see Liverpool complaining about the rules at the beginning of the season.
i have to say while im happy we are in this just isnt right imho,we all knew the rules etc but what gets me is the FA website by all accounts ( i never read it myself but a lot of people say it so correct me if this isnt true) said if an english team won the champ league then 4th place would not get into the champ league.so why take that off the website and let everton in yet we had to fight like hell to get our place? lets have a level playing field.
im not bothered that everton our in the champ league so no "bitter" names please because they deserve the place (even though the rules have been deleted for them) they had a hell of a season no doubt about that.but this will just cause murder now if you ask me and uefa seriously need to make the rules 100% strict and take into account that these things will happen.
with us going into the champ league it should mean that man city get our place but that doesnt look likely which will mean more "well if you ca do it for one team etc" and bothe the FA and UEFA need to seriously get there act together.
People keep quoting Brazil.
It could be argued that Liverpool, who only lost out on automatic qualification by 3 pts, were hampered by
- playing all the extra games in the actual CL competition itself
- an amazing number of injuries, not helped by the above
Brazil have a national pool of players to draw on, and qualification/the competition aren't at the same time.
Hence you are not comparing the same situation...PJ
Injuries? Completely and totally irrelevant.
Extra games? So what. A successful team has to cope with playing extra games.
The situation being compared is exactly the same. The winner needs to satisfy the rules that are in place in order to qualify. Simple as that.
Sorry Squiffy, not getting at you! Honest.
You just happen to have picked two comments I've heard many times.
As for rules... Have you seen the official UEFA CL rules? Here they are...
I may be reading it wrong but p35 - that top line of the table reads like the TH (Title Holders) go automatically into the group stage.
It could be argued Liverpool did play to the rules by winning to gain an automatic group place, and they've been badly done to. Now it may be that the "no more than 4 clubs per country" takes precedence, but I can't see that in the rules... but if nothing else it suggests that things weren't as crystal clear at the beginning of the season as everyone makes out...PJ
Clearly I'm biased, but I do feel that any champion in any sport should have the right to defend their title. Otherwise it demeans the event.
The problem with the World Cup is that they felt that the lack of competitive fixtures in the intervening period of 4 years was detrimental to the chances of that team. I still believe that the holders should be in regardless.
Ours were exactly the same as the Spanish FA. They decided who was to go through and picked Real Madrid over Real Zaragoza. You can bet your bottom dollar that they wouldn't have if the teams were the other way round. The Germans would never be in this position as they only had 3 teams so if this situation had occurred, they'd get an extra place automatically. No idea about Italy.
I do applaud the FA's stance at not changing the rules. That would have been grossly unfair on Everton (although a little amusing as a Liverpool fan) but totally wrong. Even if we had not been allowed in, I'd have disagreed with us taking Everton's place.
True. But who'd have thought this situation would have occurred - Liverpool winning the Champions League as opposed to us finishing fifth! I go back to my original point that UEFA should have sorted this out when Real Zaragoza was kicked out. Now that was wrong and undoubtedly had a massive adverse effect on the club. It should have been sorted out before this.
Even so, I think that the fact that being one of the "big" clubs helps. One has to wonder if Charlton or Birmingham had won whether they'd have been allowed back in.
So...the Brazilain narional players ONLY play for Brazil do they...? Or do they play all those club games as well...
3 points are 3 points mate...whatever way you look at it. They weren't good enought to qualify, they shouldn't be in. Kop tinted glasses or not.
Now, will FIFA change the rules if, by some miracle, Brazil fail to qualify for the finals next year...
Fenerbahce are happy with this ruling because, according to the UEFA web site...
The Turkish champions were due to start in the third qualifying round but will take the automatic place normally offered to the holders. Further down the rankings, the Polish champions Wisla Kraków will move up to the third qualifying round and the eventual Romanian champions will take the available second qualifying round spot, rather than entering in the first qualifying round.
...as well as some other clubs moving up the pecking order.
Wait a minute, there's that phrase "automatic place normally offered to the holders" again...PJ
Of course the Brazil players are involved in a domestic season, as are the players of all the international teams. But it is a "level playing field."
The race for 4th saw Everton play far fewer competitive games, and Liverpool's p1$$ poor premiership showings after many european games does suggest it had an effect. Not to mention the Carling Cup (OK the reserves got us there anyway).
I suppose it's academic now. Liverpool were always going to be in it once they won, so it's a pointless debate. Those rules are interesting though!...PJ
Absolutely. Agree 100%.
Like the effect it had on Man Utd in 99? Behave! Liverpool raised their game 100% for Europe pure and simple. In the leauge they sucked often, and badly. Everton sucked that bit less often and got 4th place.
You are. That only applies after the other rules have been applied (4th place, FA putting forward names etc).
This couldn't have come at a worse time either. With agents creating scenarios (cole) where they can try and bend the rules by appealing, players taking the michael, UEFA are seen bending the rules (sorry have an overnight change of) to keep the big boys happy.
It'll end in tears...............
Thanks silver for a level headed red nose perspective.
Extra games revenue, big opportunity for our strikers to get top goals scorer. Other English clubs having to share the money.
Liverpool have a squad of a few stars plus a bunch of underachieving journeymen (CL excepted of course!) - dunno what the comparison with ManU in 99 is supposed to prove? ManU were a good side then, emphasis on the *then*.
I do agree with the analysis that we sucked only marginally more than Everton, which is my whole point. Small margins which have an explanation. But 3 pts is indeed 3 pts. Everton did it, bragging rights were short lived though!
So, with these cascading rules and the FA having previously stated on their web site that the CL winners would take the 4th place spot in a previous season, it was all crystal clear wasn't it? And liverpool should've pointed out this obvious possibility before the season started.
All this "weren't complaining before the season..." Do me a favour.
I'm crying now...PJ
Why are people comparing this to Brazil and the world cup? 2 totally different competitions.
Liverpool are defending their title the following year, not four years later. They will be a similar team. We all saw how France did not deserve such a chance when they defended the World Cup.
Don't get too carried away now!
Having a striker who bags a few goals would be a very nice first step!...PJ
Sounds like a fix to me ,Everton v Liverpool Play Off ,what are the odds of this happing ,with a 1 in 15 chance of them them being paired together ,we should all put a bet on ! after all Man Utd will be seeded so Liverpool cant be drawn against them ,I am off to the bookies see you all there!!
There is also a 1 in 6 chance they could be drawn together in the group stage if they both qualify !
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