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LIVE 8 political comments

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by samjet, Jul 2, 2005.

  1. samjet

    samjet
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    well i for one would love to be a fly on the wall in bush and blairs offices at the minute

    they must be sh*****g bricks - spin doctors on speed :D

    nobody could have forseen the impact - over 1.5 million on the streets in philly

    now they may realise that we the people put them in power and we the same people can remove them from power :(

    5 billion people worldwide are watching!!

    i had initially though it may be a damp squib but the sense of emotion has carried the day!

    the march on gleneagles i guess will now be far larger than anyone may have anticipated

    politico's you have been warned - listen to your people
     
  2. seany

    seany
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    I think snoop said it best when he said $*!!'@ %*!! Mutha*£$!!


    :laugh:
     
  3. samjet

    samjet
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  4. scrapbook

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    Disagree...give it a couple of weeks and it will be all forgotten about and in 20 years time africa will still be in exactly the same position as it is now.
     
  5. Mr.D

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    There are two ways to end poverty in Africa.

    1. Stop exploitation by western business and subsequently impact the standard of living in the west.

    2. Forcibly occupy African countries and remove the most inhumane despotic regimes. (Imagine a new Iraq every 6 months for the next 15 years).

    (number 1 is probably the most realistic but would involve something along the lines and scale of the communist revolution in China).

    Scary thing is I suspect that maybe both have slightly more of the moral high ground than the current situation. Try telling someone who's watching their kids starve to death that globalisation is a bad thing.
     
  6. Mindcrime

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    EXACTLY!!!!! Look what Live Aid achieved! For a short space of time it saved many lives and gave a nation hope, but then the greed of their government took over and they are in a worse predicament now. Again we are being asked to drag them put of the mire! The one thing we should do instead of cancelling world debt is to educate. Let's educate people on growing food stuffs, using contraceptives, making a living and getting rid of the dictators who run these African nations. It also annoys me that we only seem to concentrate on the Third World when poverty and poor living standards are brought to a fore point, when there is clearly enough poverty and suffering in the UK, US, Canada and many other major nations. Cancelling 3rd world debt is not the answer, education is!!!
     
  7. Peridot

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    The same was said about Tiananmen Square. Now how hard do we need to look for the manufactured items we buy that AREN'T made in China. Nothing changes quicker that the pace of change. Watch this space .........
     
  8. Mandel

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    Wonder how many of those people would really be prepared to pay a major tax increase to pay for all this, or pay more for their goods. It's all well and good 5 billion people jumping on a bandwagon and putting themselves out by watching some bands onna stage, but when it comes to parting with their own luxuries I doubt they'll be so eager.

    I would love to be proven wrong, but as a couple of people above have said, I can see this 'enthusiasm' dying in pretty short order. The governments will make some changes (enough to not seem 'token') and people will sleep easy in bed thinking 'we have done our bit'.
     
  9. GrahamC

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    I'll believe the west wants to help when the G8 countrys place a ban on ALL arms deals to Africa. Let China have the business, it's a stand against poverty we want not profit from arms.

    I to believe that in 20 years nothing will have changed. :(
     
  10. scrapbook

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    I wouldn't hold china up as being a shining light if i were you - Tiananmen Square had everything to do with human right violations by the communist regime and nothing to do with manufacturing.

    Human right violations / deaths are as common in china as anywhere in the world, despite Tiananmen Square.

    They even censor the internet :eek::D
     
  11. overkill

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    Agree 100%. I switched over to some of the 'political programmes' on about the time it was all finishing. Did what was happening even bother them on the night? Not a bit of it.

    The G8 lot will just carry on regardless.

    Do politicans ever really care what a load of pop stars say? Bob Dylan in the 60's yes, but now? Fat chance.

    Exactly. China, like many dictatorships, and many unpleasant govts that masquerade as democracies, know that by lifting the heel a little you can hang onto power longer than by keeping the boot down all the time. It's time honoured, and the difference between despots that fall and those that don't. Why do think there wasn't a revolution here in the 19th C? Giving a little at a time stops people from wanting the lot....................
     
  12. Jenn

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    I'd like to know how many of these people who went to the concerts around the world went because they gave a **** about world poverty or because they wanted to see a lot of famous artists play live...

    I read about Noel Gallagher making a valid comment, it was something along the lines of "Correct me if I'm wrong, but are they hoping that one of these guys from the G8 is on a quick 15 minute break at Gleneagles (in Scotland) and sees ANNIE LENNOX singing SWEET DREAMS and thinks, 'fudge me, she might have a point there, you know?"

    It's quite weird though how they've all only just realised that Africans are poor (I'm not saying Africa is poor because they have huge resources, these are just not exploited properly). It's not something that happened yesterday.

    I personnally think that the Africans themselves should help getting out of poverty. A major part of the problem is corruption and we can't change their "culture of corruption" with money.
    If we were to get in there and change things by force (take control to show them how things can be better) it would back fire on us and they wouldn't see us as anything else but white dictators.

    This is a much more complicated problem than just debt relief. And I believe that changes have to come from inside Africa first then we can help them achieve THEIR goals.
     
  13. seany

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    Added to the corruption is the fact that without being able to trade on equal terms with the west they'll only ever end up back to square one. There's been agreement on debt relief and extra aid, but noooo such thing about fair trade
     
  14. Miyazaki

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    I think the best thing we can do is leave them to it.

    We (the west) do far more harm than good in Africa over the years. We contribute far more to their situation by giving them loans, selling them arms, than we do to pull them out of their situation by giving them money etc.

    By all means encourage private donations, but I believe politically, we should basically just ignore them. Don't sell them any arms, drugs they can't afford, don't trade with them, as we flood their markets with cheap goods that end up ruining their own infrastructure.
     
  15. seany

    seany
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    They need to be able to trade with the west, they have much to offer the world. Well they do provide the world with many things, they just don't get a fair price for it
     
  16. overkill

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    Thank God for a sensible comment...........

    I would agree Games, but:-

    Ignoring Africa isn't going to make the problems go away and it's what politicans would just LOVE us to do.

    Do we, or have we ever, not traded with or given aid to our fellow Europeans because they've had corrupt rulers and "it's partly their own fault"? No, and er, no.
     
  17. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    I dont see how we have any moral justification to ignore them given that we live in a global village and what happens there will , if doesnt already, affect us. We already have a considerable number of refugees here. Surely the answer is to try and solve whats going on there so that they would be not so inclined to want to move here.More trade, removing tariffs and reducing subsidies would be start.Use aid to improve education and the infrastructure.
    . Wasnt the fact that we parcelled off the continent into convenient sections which suited our trading interests but lumped tribes together that had a history of detestation( Ruanda Burundi Congo)Then all of a sudden we pull out. Maybe we should recolonise and set up as proper structure before pulling out again. Just a thought
     
  18. Nick_UK

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    Errr..... isn't poverty about the top 1% owning 95% of the world's fortunes ?

    Aren't the top 1% people like Madonna, Paul McCartney, Elton John, Noel Gallagher, Robbie Williams, Keith Richards, David Bowie, and Mick Jagger ?

    Are we witnessing real concern, or just some pricked consciences ? Isn't this rather like a bunch of fat people standing up on stage to preach about world starvation ? :thumbsdow
     
  19. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    Just the irony of the situation . Overblown egos demanding top facilities- plush carpets, huge trailers with all mod cons arguing about when they should appear and then preaching about world poverty. I can live with that, just, if the cause is right. I admire Gekldof anyway if only because I havent got the guts ,determination and sheer will to do what he is doing. He is no fool either.
    I do get irritated , though ,when I read reports about Mr dogbone( Bono) taking out legal action against a woman for the return of a pair of trousers . For heavens sake.!
     
  20. Nick_UK

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    Sorry, but I disagree. Bob Geldof is a fool. It should be obvious to anyone that Africa is a bottomless pit that will swallow up as much money that you would like to throw in it. People will still die. Remember the first Live Aid ? Those people we "saved" back then still died - we only delayed the inevitable.

    All the while you have people content to pick up the sort of money that these performers earn, and be content with it, (like Madonna, Paul McCartney, Elton John, Noel Gallagher, Robbie Williams, Keith Richards, David Bowie, and Mick Jagger, and all the other millionaires), you will have poverty. Who really needs more than £50,000 in the bank to live well ? They obviously think they do. It's like saying "Don't do as I do, do as I say".

    As the Bible says "The poor will always be with us".
     
  21. mrtbag

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    No they probably don't, but the day was about the voice of the people who signed up to the live 8 list, not the musicians.
     
  22. chard

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    I thought it obscene that a man like Gates with $50Bn in the bank....was preaching that we should all be giving more to help the poor !!??
     
  23. overkill

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    Yeah, and do the govts give a stuff about a bunch of 'socialist worker' banner waving students either? Nope.

    The 'voice of the people' had (looking at the audience) all the feel of a lot of 'concerned for a day folk' and less 'we've always been worried about it' people. I may be wrong and I hope I am, but thats how they came across.

    Ditto. He could sell his house (custom built into a cliff face) and clear an African nations debt with the proceeds of that alone. ;)

    But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try and help.

    What would probably be more useful would be for each of those stars to contribute 1% (Ie a few million) each of their earnings to establishing the logistics needed to make aid and support effective.
     
  24. la gran siete

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    He is actually very shrewd .Made a lot of money out of his Big Breakfast venture for starters. A lot of people accuse him of naivety but I think that can work in his favour because he can mentally cut a swathe and see whats right from wrong ie millions starving in a world of plenty. His mind will not be encumbered by "complications" and he will fight for what he believes in . Remember that child that only had ten minutes to live . Now she is a 20 year old Ethiopian student.No I'll never insult him by calling him a fool.Its the rest of us who are possibly foolish as we worry about trite matters such as whether we have the right LCD or SUV car or about a group of travellers ensconced somwhere or other.
     
  25. Miyazaki

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    I am going to have to phrase this carefully...

    Imagine if we managed to give enough money to Africa to ensure that the contient became "first world". What would the ramifications be? Imagine if every African consumed as much petrol, electricity, food, water, etc as we did. :eek:

    African people have a lot of children, far more than we do. In a generation's time, each one of them will desire the same amount of resources we do. I cannot imagine a world like that. Global warming on that scale would make Africa uninhabitable, and would make their situation far worse.

    In no way am I saying we shouldn't donate to Africa, nor am I saying that they shouldn't desire everything we take for granted, just that the ramifications of the entire world consuming at the rate that Europe and North America does would be catacylismic beyond the, relatively, mild suffering of the continent at the moment.

    I personally don't think that we can "cure" Africa. It is a contient, on the whole, with very little precipitation, poor soil and little strength to shoulder the burden of a massive population and intensive farming. African peope have survived for millions of years in the nomadic fashion, living off the migrating herds and IMO a contibuting factor is the west "civilising" Africa, making a nomadic people static and more susceptible to drought and disaster, as they have lost the tools of survival.
     
  26. MartinImber

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    Gates is the worlds biggest contributor to charity.!
     
  27. overkill

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    He is, as are several other 'major players'. However, as one excellent article pointed out recently, even the amount they spend on charity is insignificant when compared to what joe public pays as a proportion of his/her wages.

    Concience salving, by spending what's equivalent to pocket money for the big earners, isn't that praiseworthy.
     
  28. shahedz

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    He wasnt telling people to donate just the 8 people in the G8 summit to give more.
     
  29. shahedz

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  30. shahedz

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    you ask who needs £50, 000 to live well? have you ever been asked who needs £3k+ worht of home cinema or audio equipment to appreciate music or a movie, that is completley unfair, i am sure if you won the lottery or was earning as much as some of the artists you wouldnt keep £50,000 in the bank and give the rest away, I think Bob Geldof is a hero, he bought on the stage the girl he saved 20 years ago and i think that was amazing, regardless thats one more person whose life he has saved more than you and I.
     

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