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lip sync

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by dsd1036, Jan 24, 2004.

  1. dsd1036

    dsd1036
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    anyone experienced problems with lip sync on plasma screens especially panasonic models,generally from sky or sky+ as the source.we,ve been onto sky but there wallies,its not the overall delay from normal terrestrial and sky,we know about that,its every now and then audio and video arent match thus causing lip sync problem.

    cheers
    dsd1036
     
  2. GaryB

    GaryB
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    This is pretty common with plasmas, moreso if they are used with Sky or Freeview. Processing the video signal in a plasma sets takes time, and unless the audio is delayed by the same amount, there will be a small delay. This is usually very difficult to spot. However, when you couple this to Sky or Freeview box, both of which also have a small video delay relative to audio, the two add together and it starts to become noticeable. This is why some high end HC receivers incorporate a variable audio delay to overcome just this problem.
     
  3. dsd1036

    dsd1036
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    thanks for the reply,i had already been told a similar thing just wanted someone elses opinion and to see how true it was

    cheers
    dsd1036
     
  4. 38H21543

    38H21543
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    It would be useful to know the cost to resolve this if it was found to be a problem.
    Could you recommend the minimum, and maybe even the preferred, solution to this.
     
  5. GaryB

    GaryB
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    The only real answer is to use an amplifier with a variable delay and adjust it for perfect lip sync. There really is no answer if using the basic audio system built into a standard set unless manufacturers start to add a variable delay circuit. This would also have to be variable and would of course add to the cost. I have heard of add-on delay boxes but I haven't seen one yet.

    Edit: A quick search on Google using "lip sync delay box" shows several suitable boxes.
     
  6. 38H21543

    38H21543
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    Which "amplifier with a variable delay" has the minimum cost, and which model is the "avforums choice"?
     
  7. GaryB

    GaryB
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    I think I've seen it listed as a feature on high end Denon & Yamaha models. There are people on here with far more experiece than me of the various models. Maybe one of those can suggest something suitable. All brands will have their supporters so you may well get various opinions on what is "best".
     
  8. Messiah

    Messiah
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    Denon 3803 - Approx £800
    Denon A1SR - Approx £2400

    Both the above have an audio delay feature. The only real problem with this though is different sources will have varying amounts of audio delay so you will have to keep changing the amount of delay (in the setup options) to accommodate it on a per source basis.

    I am not aware of any amps where you can set it on a per source basis (which would be nice :) )
     
  9. MAW

    MAW
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    It's not a per source delay you need, ut a per program. The problem might just be due to processing time, but with a monitor plasma, and I've seen more than a few, being a custom installer, I don't find it so. Sky simply do not send the audio and video at the same time. They can be up to .5 of a second out, There is no way that can be processing time, they don't do that much to the signal! The little electrons could have got 1/3 of the way to the moon in that time, bless their cotton socks! NTL are much better in this respect, as are freeview. There is a new audio delay box with more easily adjustable timing, at £250-£300. To adjust delay on a denon you have to get into the setup menu. This would have very low wife acceptance factor, she'd miss 1/2 of corrie while you did it!
     
  10. TopMeTom

    TopMeTom
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    The new Pioneer's do the audio delay as well.

    Phil
     
  11. MAW

    MAW
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    Just like the denon, buried in the setup menu. Works very well for what it's designed for, ie room setup, and speakers placed at different distances to the listening position, or dealing with the delays introduced by a video processor like the iscan. It won't deal easily with variable delay.
     
  12. TopMeTom

    TopMeTom
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    My AX3 has a audio delay setting which I am using to my pw6 panny.

    Phil
     
  13. Turlough

    Turlough
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    The Linn Kisto includes an auto-stored audio-delay for each source and is adjusted from a dedicated button on the remote.

    Does lots of other very nice things as well (for a mere 6.5k)

    Oh well, back to my bedsit and 10k pa job.
    :)
     
  14. jmack

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    can i have more info on the £250 audio delay box available please.
    link if you can
     
  15. Galaxy

    Galaxy
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    Saw my first sync delay last night on sky+ "I'm a celeb......" only watching the end of course, turned it on for the news! LOL
    But there was a delay there and quite noticable too, but it must be the broadcasters problem as it strangley disappeared when the News came on right after, no channel change by me, just continous viewing, couldnt tell about the adverts though, not enough lips to watch! but the news was bonk on.

    Best regards David
     
  16. Miles@9

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    I read somewhere, might have even been this very Forum; that your brain can cope with a time delay between what you hear and what you seen.

    Howevery your brain is used to getting the vision first, followed by the sound. Getting the sound and vision in the wrong order stands out as bad lip sync.

    If you can adjust the audio delay (whether with the amp or with audio delay unit) over adjust the delay to cover the worst channels. Where the lip sync is not to pronounced, say from DVD your brain can except a slight audio delay.

    Might just help with some $ky channels.
     
  17. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    HTPC with a nebula digiTV card.
    Features an audio delay control , also has perfect aspect ratio selection.
    As well as all the usual benefits.
     
  18. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello all

    Low cost (around) £120 Stereo Audio delays can be had from your local musicians store if they stock Behringer.

    MAW - if you have someone who's actually completed a Digital Audio delay please shout!

    If you add one of the NEW Silicon Image iScan UltraHD Deinterlacer/Scaler units to your system you get Independent Digital Audio delays as a bonus.

    Pioneer VSX-AX5i allows Digital Audio delay 'on the Fly' with ease - not sure if the VSX-AX3i is the same!

    SKY - definateley some programs worse than others; though once I've set my delay I dont find I'm adjusting it again too often; though I do sometimes re-set my SKY+ box as it seems to loose the place every now and again.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS I dont have many issues with my DVD player as it has a delay setting when its in Progressive mode.
     
  19. deman77

    deman77
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    How about Iscan HD which lets you pass three audio signals through and will delay as required. Should be around a grand. You get a few minor features with it on top of audio delay (best deinterlacing in under 2K, scaling etc). Don't think it'll ship on this side for another 3 months.

    Btw, I don't think plasma processing adds a perceptible video lag. Whenever I get it with my D6 it can be fixed by switching SKY+ off and back on, so I think it's the digibox that's responsible.
     
  20. Galaxy

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    Just a thought occured to me whilst untangling 60metres of vandamme this morning....has anyone noticed when the lip sync error happens, is it only on high compression signals? I mention this because I was appalled at the quality of the video coming from "I'm a Celeb" very high compression it looked like, but the news a few minutes later was perfectly in sync, and of course is very low compression usually.....maybe...just maybe its the MPEG decoding that takes the time?

    Best regards David
     
  21. Galaxy

    Galaxy
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    This of course would support your theory that its the digibox to blame deman, I too really do not believe Plasma introduce the delay. Display circuirty is no longer "rocket science" it has to be the decoding in the digibox.

    Best regards David
     
  22. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    deman77

    Break out your piggy bank now if you want an iScan HD - should see our first stock in the next four weeks I'm told!!!

    I'm hoping to have a sample here later this week - and retail will be just under £1K.

    Plasma can and do definateley add processing time but SKY also has its problems - and certainly once you stick an external video processor into the equation you get more pronounced delays.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS Galaxy - I dont think you can blame the SKY signal for the pic quality on 'I'm an old has been' - it looks more like the original signal is using video conferencing technology!
     
  23. Galaxy

    Galaxy
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    Joe,

    I'm not blaming sky, just stating that the signal compression used seems to be excessive, as you say, just like vid conf technology.
    Don't forget of course that this signal is from ITV!!
     
  24. StooMonster

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    Broadcasters are the major cause IMHO. Lip-sync is much less of an issue than it used to be, on same kit too, so I believe broadcasters are taking greater care to sync their audio and video than they did in the past.

    "Newsnight" on BBC TWO always highlighted that it was broadcasters, Jeremy Paxman in studio would be in sync but live links from outside broadcasts would be out of sync, particularly if in USA or other foreign lands; this consistent behaviour would not be the result of digibox.

    A year ago "Question Time" on BBC ONE was sometimes seconds out, but these days is fine and "Newsnight" has also improved over the last twelve months so even with external video processors the lip-sync is barely noticeable most of the time.

    Another example, sometimes US series on Sky One would be out of sync, but then the adverts would be in sync, and then back out of sync in the programme after the ad-break; but again this is better now than it was a year ago.

    StooMonster
     
  25. Galaxy

    Galaxy
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    Hmmm strange thing I noticed this evening whilst watching a programme on Ch4......it was in perfect lip sync when I noticed a quick disolve mix by the studio, must have edited out a gaff, after that the lip sync was out again until the end of the programme. Now thats not the Plasma doing that! :lesson:

    Best regards David
     
  26. MAW

    MAW
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    Audio delay not ready last time I asked, not long ago! AX5i is the current best option I can think of, but no use if you've already got a decent amp.... as to the iscan HD, Joe, they are very generous to give you a price, they haven't done me that favour yet.
     
  27. deman77

    deman77
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    :eek:
     
  28. buzlightyear

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    Just to add my two pence worth, Ive never had a Lip Sync prob with my Sony Plasma through NT(hell) but my Girlfriends Dad who has a Normal 28" Panny CRT gets these lip sync problem, but he is using Sky+, so its not just the plasmas..

    Buzz...
     
  29. Stackers

    Stackers
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    Galaxy

    I noticed the lip sync and pic quality with I'm a celeb the other night too (probably at the same time as you ;)! I dont have a plamsa tho', i have a 30" LCD TV!! Which i guess supports your theory that it's not the plasma thats to blame!?!

    I guess a good test would be to watch the show thru the TV ariel next time it happens and see if there is a problem there?

    I found the pic on i'm a celeb kinda over processed but when i turned over to Sky one afterwards it was perfect!
     
  30. CARLOS

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    Cheap lip sync solution use longer cables :)


































    About 1/2 mile should do it :D
     

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