Lip Sync Issue With Stereo Amp

jpdsam

Active Member
Hi hopefully someone here can offer me a bit of advice.

I have a HK980 integrated amp, I bought it for music and it does a nice job.

However I thought I'd also use it to improve the sound when watching films on TV and DVD so plugged in the analogue outputs from the Sky+ box and the PS3.
It does indeed offer a massive improvement over the TV speakers, but the sound is slightly ahead of the TV's (using either source), so there's a bit of a lip sync problem.

Now I know AV amps can adjust for this but I'm not interested in getting one of those at the moment. I think maybe if I take the sound direct from the TV's output, it will sync better - do you agree?

Unfortunately my tv only appears to have optical out, so it would have to go into a DAC first. Now I was thinking about getting one in the future anyway to improve the sound from my Airport Express, so if this would also solve my lip sync problem, I would be more encouraged to buy one sooner.

Any views / suggestions / ideas?

If this question is better suited to a different forum, please feel free to move me on. :)
 

simon ess

Well-known Member
I have exactly the same problem from my Virgin V+ box. Optical out from box to dac and lip sync is way out
I take optical out from tv into dac and that is perfect!

I haven't tried analogue out of Vbox direct to amp though. I might try it.
 

bishopsfinger

Active Member
Hi hopefully someone here can offer me a bit of advice.

I have a HK980 integrated amp, I bought it for music and it does a nice job.

However I thought I'd also use it to improve the sound when watching films on TV and DVD so plugged in the analogue outputs from the Sky+ box and the PS3.
It does indeed offer a massive improvement over the TV speakers, but the sound is slightly ahead of the TV's (using either source), so there's a bit of a lip sync problem.

Now I know AV amps can adjust for this but I'm not interested in getting one of those at the moment. I think maybe if I take the sound direct from the TV's output, it will sync better - do you agree?

Unfortunately my tv only appears to have optical out, so it would have to go into a DAC first. Now I was thinking about getting one in the future anyway to improve the sound from my Airport Express, so if this would also solve my lip sync problem, I would be more encouraged to buy one sooner.

Any views / suggestions / ideas?

If this question is better suited to a different forum, please feel free to move me on. :)
Hi jpdsam

I thought most PVRs had a lip sync option and surprised the Sky+ box doesn't .
 

bishopsfinger

Active Member
Any idea if the Virgin box has this option? I've searched through the settings menus, but can't find anything.

Thanks
Hi little chap

Sorry, I don't have the Sky or Virgin box but my Humax HDR T2 has this option (which I use) and I believe most other PVRs do too.
 

simon ess

Well-known Member
Just done a forum search on this issue.

It seems that the problem is caused by the delay in processing the image. Many AV receivers have the option to delay the audio to match but, obviously, stereo amps don't.

There is no option to correct it with either Sky or Virgin boxes.

I'm pretty sure I've read this right. If not, I would be happy to be corrected.
 

DrH

Active Member
The sky+ box, the HD version at least has the option to adjust the delay but i believe that it is only for the optical output and not the analogue out.

I use the analogue outputs from my sky+ hd box (the optical is off to an AV receiver in another room) into my Marantz amp and i suffer from the same but only on some channels:confused:

I am not sure that an out board DAC is the answer but it maybe worth a look on the net as places like Keene electronics do all sorts of amazing little gizmos etc

Please post an answer if you find one

Dave
 

jpdsam

Active Member
Thank you for the responses!
I can't see any setting in the sky+ menu, I am intending to get HD sometime soon, so if the HD box has a delay option, then that would solve the problem there, but the ps3 will still be an issue.

little chap, it's good to hear that optical from the tv gives you good sync - that is what I was hoping to hear!

DrH - Its not the DAC itself that I think would sort the problem, more that its only by using one I can feed the sound direct from TV to amp. I think if my tv had analogue outs I could probably sort it without a DAC. Maybe..
Anyway I will certainly have a look for any such gizmo that could help. Cheers for the advice, if I find anything I'll let you know.

I'm keen to hear of any other experiences with this and how people work around it. Thanks.
 

simon ess

Well-known Member
TBH, if I didn't already have a DAC I wouldn't have bought one just for TV. I would, as you suggest, have used analogue out from TV to amp.

So, if your TV has analogue out - problem solved. If not, oh well, I guess you get to buy a nice DAC.
 

jpdsam

Active Member
Ha yeah, the tv definitely only has optical out so maybe DAC is the way to go. I've read a good bit about them on here - lots of people seem to speak highly of the difference they can make - so as I say was giving it some consideration to improve my music anyway.

Actually quick question while we're on the subject - on a DAC with say two optical inputs, how do you switch between them? Can they detect the input and switch automatically, or is it done manually by a button or remote? Maybe a daft question but thought I'd ask!
Cheers.
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
Ha yeah, the tv definitely only has optical out
I know you've said it more than once, but I'd just like a final confirmation. Your TV really does not have either a SCART connection or a headphone socket, but only a solitary optical output?
 

jpdsam

Active Member
I know you've said it more than once, but I'd just like a final confirmation. Your TV really does not have either a SCART connection or a headphone socket, but only a solitary optical output?
I'll be honest, when I've looked round the tv and read through the manual, I've just looked for phono socket outputs, never even thought about other connections. :rolleyes:

Having checked again, it has one scart connector, but this is an input rather than an output and I'm using it for the sky+.

It does however have a headphone socket, which I can try using. Thank you for this suggestion.
Obviously if I use this I would have to always have the amp on (or unplug the output) as it cuts the sound to the tv's speakers. But it is an option.

The tv is an Sony kdl46nx703 by the way, and I was amazed it didn't have analogue rca outputs.
 

Andy8421

Novice Member
jpdsam,

A couple of reviews on the web say that your TV has:

-4(2 Side/2 Rear) x HDMI Connection/s
-1 x Component Video Connection/s
-1 x Composite Video Connection/s
-1 x USB 2.0 Connection/s
-2 x RGB Scart Connection/s
-Stereo mini jack
-PC Input

You say you can only find one SCART and that is input only? Might be worth checking again. The SCART would be the best place for a line level audio output. If the mini jack is designed for headphones, it may have quality issues depending on how much effort Sony put into their headphone amp.
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
Although the SCART connector on your TV is bidirectional, since you're already using it, that won't be an option. The 3.5mm jack will work just fine.

But more importantly, the statement:
Obviously if I use this I would have to always have the amp on (or unplug the output) as it cuts the sound to the tv's speakers.
applies irrespective of the connectivity option you use, including using the optical output to a DAC. If you are using the external speakers, then you obviously need to disable the TV's internal speakers, and conversely if you wish to suffer through the TV's internal speakers, you will need to reenable them first.

Note to Andy: the KDL-46HX703 has 2 SCARTs, the OP's KDL-46NX703 unfortunately only has one :(.
 
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jpdsam

Active Member
Mark, thanks for that, I had made the (mistaken) assumption that the tv would output sound through its own speakers and the optical at the same time, and I would just mute the tv / turn the amp off to change between them.

Its also interesting that you say the scart is bidirectional - so if I wasn't using it (say after changing to sky hd), I could connect a scart to rca adapter lead and go straight into the amp?
Would there be a setting on the tv to tell it to use the scart as the audio out, or would it just cut the tv speakers like with the headphone socket?

I do realise I'm demonstrating a distinct lack of knowledge of my own kit here! :rolleyes:
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
With the SCART connector just check you get a SCART to RCA cable or use a switchable adapter like this. You do not have to tell the TV anything to make it send audio over SCART, but you will have to disable the TV's internal speakers.

The 3.5mm headphone jack is probably the optimal solution.
 

scorpion88

Novice Member
Hi, I have the same amp and bought it for the same purpose.

Connections as follows:

HDMI TV to Virgin+ HD Box
HDMI to Oppo 980 DVD
Analogue (RCA) Virgin+ to Amp
Analogue (RCA) Oppo to Amp for Music

All works fine with no lypsync problems (that I have noticed anyway)

Great amp for the money IMO by the way.

Cheers

Scorpion
 

jpdsam

Active Member
Hi Scorpion, thanks for taking time to reply.

Interesting that you (with a similar ish setup to me) don't have any problems. Do you think your tv is just quicker than mine at processing the signal over HDMI (/SCART in the case of my sky+), so you don't get a delay compared to the analogue audio to the amp?

Agreed on the amp - not had it long, but very much enjoying it music-wise.
 

scorpion88

Novice Member
Hi There, I do not claim to be an expert in these matters but it was interesting that when the Virgin guys came to install they used both the Scart and HDMI connections.

I queried this and stated they "that the scart is just a back up".

After a few weeks I disconnected the scart as I really could not see the point and everything still works just fine with none of the problems you have experienced. Great HD pictures and the analogue sounds fine both with TV and music. The same applies to the Oppo.

So to answer your question I do believe it is the HDMI element that makes the difference.

I have both analogue and digital connections from all componets but of course the amp is analogue only.

I don't really want to go surround sound (5.1 etc) so next upgrade may be an amp with digital inputs, although these are scarce. The other option of course is a separate DAC but will leave well alone at the moment.

Hope that helps and you are now sorted.

Cheers

Scorpion
 

jpdsam

Active Member
Thanks Scorpion, I would agree about it being the HDMI, but for the fact that my PS3 is connected using HDMI and suffers the same issue. That's why I wondered whether it was down to the processing speed of the TV.

Anyway I'm going to have a proper play over the weekend, try using the SCART as output, and the headphone output, see how I get on.

Cheers for your help
 

jpdsam

Active Member
Right - just a little update in case anyone happens to be interested in this..

I acquired a SCART to RCA "Out" adapter but could not get the TV to output to the amp using this. I tried going through the TV's menus and changed over from "TV speakers" to "Audio System", but no joy - all the settings seem to be regarding switching between TV speakers and Optical.
So if anyone knows how to output audio from the SCART, I'd like to hear how.

Anyway, while looking through the menus, I found I could switch off the headphone switching, so it doesn't turn off the TV speakers when you plug into the headphone socket.

Now I can have the TV speakers on for normal TV watching (which will keep the mrs happy as she won't have to turn the amp on / switch inputs etc.), but if we want to listen through the amp, just mute the tv and turn the amp on. Most importantly - no lip sync issue!

There's the slight concern over quality via the headphone socket as mentioned by Andy8421, but it will surely be better than the tv's speakers and will certainly do for now.

Thanks all.
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
I know you said it and it's rude to ask, but nevertheless... Are you really and absolutely sure the adapter you purchased is a SCART to audio adapter? Most non-switchable adapters are the other way around.
 

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