Lip Sync issue 100% identified. OPPO UDP-203

Jules

Well-known Member
Lip Sync issue 100% identified. LG OLED owners take note!!

My quest has ended. I have 100% identified the cause of lip sync issues with the Oppo 203 / Dolby Vision... although Oppo and LG should share the blame.

There isn't a permanent solution to this when playing different sources, but I do know what is causing it..

Its the LG OLED's 'Real Cinema' option in the picture menu.

The trick is that the option is greyed out (not applicable) with anything except 24p content, so you can't always reach in to turn it on/off. But if its ON (and you must check with each type of source content based on its frames per second...it doesn't 'stick'), then you will get a 126ms picture delay with 24p content. I guarantee it.

The annoying thing is that you can't turn it on with SD content, so the only way to get consistent lip sync is to turn it OFF for everything.

However, there is a caveat... if you play a Dolby Vision disc, Real Cinema on the TV get's turned on automatically and you can't turn it off!!
This must be a Dolby Vision requirement.

Sadly, the audio delay setting on the Oppo does nothing with DV discs, so you can't correct for it on the player.
Also, you can't access your AV Amp's audio delay setting while a DV disc is playing (again, must be a DV requirement), so you can't correct it there either!!!

However, as long as you add around 126ms of audio delay on your AV Amp BEFORE you play the DV disc, you will get perfect sync.

The only issue then is you have to return the audio delay in the amp back to 0 for non DV content (assuming you have turned Real Cinema OFF on the TV).

Anyone who owns an LG OLED and the Oppo 203 needs to see this. I'm 100% certain this is the cause of all the problems. I've been doing hours of testing.

Basically, you need 2 different audio delay settings for different circumstances... but at least now you know what those circumstances are.

Oppo should:
- activate the player's audio delay function with DV discs.
- provide a 'per content' memory setting for audio delay.

LG should:
- allow real cinema to be engaged / disengaged at any time, or massivley reduce the picture processing time when its engaged.


Honestly this has been killing me for months, and I suspect anyone on these forums who's been saying they get perfect sync 100% of the time with this screen/player combination will fall into 2 camps...
1) They have Real Cinema turned off for everything.
AND
2) They don't have any DV content on disc.

For everyone else, I suspect like me you've been tearing your hair out.


Please can other Oppo203 / LG OLED owners test this for themselves and confirm I'm not making it up.
 
Last edited:

jeremy bender

Active Member
Have had your JVC projector calibrated or ever thought about having it done.
If you have had it done,who did you use & would you recommend them?
I have the Epson Ls10500 & thinking seriously about getting it done but want to use someone highly recommended.
Hi- I haven’t had my JVC calibrated despite thinking about it several times. I have 2 years on the bulb now but despite it still being fine and bright I will probably wait until a bulb change then seek out a calibration. If anyone can share any experience that would be helpful for me as well. I’m in the UK Midlands.

I did exchange messages with frequent poster [email protected] AV (who does calibration) a couple of years ago when I first got the X7000. If he is still doing calibration he would be worth chatting to.
 

thedude

Distinguished Member
Lip Sync issue 100% identified. LG OLED owners take note!!

My quest has ended. I have 100% identified the cause of lip sync issues with the Oppo 203 / Dolby Vision... although Oppo and LG should share the blame.

There isn't a permanent solution to this when playing different sources, but I do know what is causing it..

So let me tell you what is the problem...
Its the LG OLED's 'Real Cinema' option in the picture menu.

The trick is that the option is greyed out (not applicable) with everything except 24p content, so you can't always reach in to turn it off. But if its ON, then you will get a 126ms picture delay with 24p content. I guarantee it.

The annoying thing is that you can't turn it on with SD content, so the only way to get consistent lip sync is to turn it OFF when playing a 24p Blu-ray.

However, this doesn't completely solve the problem in all cases.... and that's because if you play a Dolby Vision disc, Real Cinema on the TV get's turned on automatically and you cannot turn it off.
This must be a Dolby Vision requirement.

Now, the audio delay setting on the Oppo does nothing with DV discs, so you can't correct it on the player.
Also, you can't access your AV Amp's audio delay setting while a DV disc is playing (again, must be a DV requirement), so you can't correct it there either!!!

However, as long as you set your AV amp's audio delay to 126ms BEFORE you play the DV disc in the Oppo, you will get perfect sync.

The only issue then is you have to set the audio delay in the amp back to 0 when playing any source where "Real Cinema" isn't applicable (basically SD content or TV programmes).

Anyone who owns an LG OLED and the Oppo 203 needs to see this. I'm 100% certain this is the cause of all the problems. I've been doing hours of testing.

Basically, you need 2 different audio delay settings for different circumstances... but at least now you know what those circumstances are.

Oppo would be well advised to activate the player's audio delay function with DV discs, and have this be an exclusive setting for DV content.

Honestly this has been killing me for months, and I suspect anyone on these forums who's been saying they get perfect sync 100% of the time with this screen/player combination falls into 2 camps...
1) They have Real Cinema turned off for all sources on the OLED.
AND
2) They don't have any DV content on disc.


Please can other Oppo203 / LG OLED owners test this for themselves and confirm I'm not making it up.
Well you are suggesting that lip sync happens only with DV which hands down is wrong. I've had it on other discs that don't have DV
 

Jules

Well-known Member
Well you are suggesting that lip sync happens only with DV which hands down is wrong. I've had it on other discs that don't have DV
No I'm not. It's with any 24p content where you have real cinema engaged on the TV.

Its a tricky one because you can't check if it's on with all content... Only when 24p content is playing.

I'm honestly very very confident this is the problem.

If you do have other discs that still have lip sync... Check that disc in another player. I did and it was common to both players... Indicating in those circumstances it was the source at fault.

That's one of the ways I narrowed it down. I also checked things on a Sony TV and kept a record.

Nerdy I know.. But someone had to do it.
 
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gaz2810i

Well-known Member
I'm pretty sure my calibrator turned real cinema on when he calibrated it, but I will need to check later.

In the last week alone I have watched 7 blue rays, 1 DVD and 1 DV UHD disc and not noticed a hint of lip sync problems using the Oppo on my LG 65E6.

You could say I'm simply not seeing it... However, I have a job were spotting lip sync issues is tantamount and I am currently struggling with lip sync problem in the inbuilt apps in the E6. If anyone is going to notice/spot it and get annoyed it will be me.
 

Cocksure

Well-known Member
Hi- I haven’t had my JVC calibrated despite thinking about it several times. I have 2 years on the bulb now but despite it still being fine and bright I will probably wait until a bulb change then seek out a calibration. If anyone can share any experience that would be helpful for me as well. I’m in the UK Midlands.

I did exchange messages with frequent poster [email protected] AV (who does calibration) a couple of years ago when I first got the X7000. If he is still doing calibration he would be worth chatting to.
It really depends on how many hours are on your bulb as to whether you leave it or not.

The jump in picture quality really is quite shocking, what has always driven it home to me is a picture of a football, it's night and day difference between before and after calibration as you suddenly realise what white should look like.

Gordon still does calibration (used him 2 months back).

The down side with calibration is that the brightness of your image takes a big hit. It's worth it imo, but it is clearly noticeable so I personally would not have it done if there are plenty of hours on your lamp
 

thedude

Distinguished Member
In built apps on the LG never an issue Oppo I have had a few but I'm not sure as bad as 120.
I suppose the major variable is going to be what amp is used or if it's internal speakers etc
 

SeeMoreDigital

Well-known Member
And with respect. People have got to stop this obsession about 24p and 24Hz!

Most movies, even Dolby Vision movies are encoded at 23.976fps and should be output at their native frequency, ie: 23.976Hz. They look perfectly good at their native frequency. They should not be forced to 24Hz.
 

Jules

Well-known Member
In built apps on the LG never an issue Oppo I have had a few but I'm not sure as bad as 120.
I suppose the major variable is going to be what amp is used or if it's internal speakers etc
The LG apps actually cause the picture to run ahead of the sound.. So that isn't fully correctable... Even with the LG audio delay at to - 5.

Real cinema does cause a lot of audio delay... But beware... You won't see it until you fully exit the menu.

My understanding is that it repeats each frame 4 times to achieve smoother motion at higher refresh rates. If the native panel delay is 30ms, then x4 = 120ms ish.

Whatever the maths, it's quite a shocking amount of delay with it engaged and is clearly visible when turning it on /off with 24p content.
 

thedude

Distinguished Member
And with respect. People have got to stop this obsession about 24p and 24Hz!

Most movies, even Dolby Vision movies are encoded at 23.976fps and should be output at their native frequency, ie: 23.976Hz. They look perfectly good at their native frequency. They should not be forced to 24Hz.
Isn't 24fps just a round up of it. And isn't 23.97 just the closest they can get to actually 24fps. Not sure who was obsessing...
 

thedude

Distinguished Member
The LG apps actually cause the picture to run ahead of the sound.. So that isn't fully correctable... Even with the LG audio delay at to - 5.

Real cinema does cause a lot of audio delay... But beware... You won't see it until you fully exit the menu.

My understanding is that it repeats each frame 4 times to achieve smoother motion at higher refresh rates. If the native panel delay is 30ms, then x4 = 120ms ish.

Whatever the maths, it's quite a shocking amount of delay with it engaged and is clearly visible when turning it on /off with 24p content.
I've got Plex Netflix and Amazon running and none of them have issues. Maybe I've corrected it in the amp. But I come out via arc and I've turned off the processing straight in from the TV works fine.
 

Jules

Well-known Member
And with respect. People have got to stop this obsession about 24p and 24Hz!

Most movies, even Dolby Vision movies are encoded at 23.976fps and should be output at their native frequency, ie: 23.976Hz. They look perfectly good at their native frequency. They should not be forced to 24Hz.
most people just use 24p as an easier way of saying 23.976...but I take your point. I know the difference just can't always be bothered to write 23.976
 

Jules

Well-known Member
I've got Plex Netflix and Amazon running and none of them have issues. Maybe I've corrected it in the amp. But I come out via arc and I've turned off the processing straight in from the TV works fine.
The TVs built in delay issues maybe another matter, but for oppo 203 users the real cinema option in the TV is the problem.
 

thedude

Distinguished Member
The TVs built in delay issues maybe another matter, but for oppo 203 users the real cinema option in the TV is the problem.
I'll boot up a disc and see in a minute will be one of the kids so I'll see. The Yamaha does have auto correction but I'm sure that can't work with two hdmi cables going to different areas.
 

thedude

Distinguished Member
Kids chose Lego movie absolutely no idea if lip sync is out;)
Why would DV force RC?
 

thedude

Distinguished Member

thedude

Distinguished Member
Its both greyed out and ON in mine so I can't turn it off.

You sure Dolby Vision is active?
No I know what it does. And Lego Movie doesn't have DV but I've had it on Real Cinema all the time anyway.

I mean if it's greyed out how do you know it's on and not greyed out just looking like it's on but it's actually off?
Have you got Netflix there is some DV on there
 

Jules

Well-known Member
No no no... You need to check with a DV disc since that's my point.

You can turn it off with any other content, and this alleviates the problem.

Real cinema only applies to 24p content though so if you manually turn it on with Blu-ray films, your lip sync will be different when playing a SD Dvd source... Or other content on blu-ray that is not 24p (or 23.976 to be precise).
 

thedude

Distinguished Member
No no no... You need to check with a DV disc since that's my point.

You can turn it off with any other content, and this alleviates the problem.

Real cinema only applies to 24p content though so if you manually turn it on with Blu-ray films, your lip sync will be different when playing a SD Dvd source... Or other content on blu-ray that is not 24p (or 23.976 to be precise).
My point was I haven't had the issue.
I get you are saying it's a lip sync issue with DV I'll try that later when we watch something else.

I'm sure I read somewhere that Real Cinema now works with 60i and 60p as well. But I'm yet to check
 

steverobertsbbc

Well-known Member
And with respect. People have got to stop this obsession about 24p and 24Hz!

Most movies, even Dolby Vision movies are encoded at 23.976fps and should be output at their native frequency, ie: 23.976Hz. They look perfectly good at their native frequency. They should not be forced to 24Hz.
Movies are 23.976fps or 24.000fps, depending on how they've been encoded. "24P" or "24Hz" is a shorthand for either and the electronics in your equipment knows the difference and processes them at the correct rate. Not sure what you're trying to say here really.
 

nabob

Active Member
I cannot believe this player is still having problems with its basic function of playing 4K disk. I have not used mine a lot recently but Picked up John Wick this week and it just freezes in chapter six. I have not gone back through this thread but I know i have seen others on here previously who had problems with this title as well. I am on the latest production firmware. Not sure if there is a beta out there but I do not generally install betas.
 

SeeMoreDigital

Well-known Member
Movies are 23.976fps or 24.000fps, depending on how they've been encoded. "24P" or "24Hz" is a shorthand for either and the electronics in your equipment knows the difference and processes them at the correct rate. Not sure what you're trying to say here really.
Indeed... But for the sake of accuracy we should not be rounding things up.

Primarily because it is possible to configure some playback devices to force 23.976fps sources to 24Hz, which depending on the equipment in your device chain, can create all kinds of weirdness including A/V sync errors!
 

Jules

Well-known Member
For those suffering lip sync issues, I think we're vering into territory that (although useful to members who don't know this stuff) clouds the cause of it.

The Oppo (on earlier firmware did treat 23.976fps content as 24p incorrectly... Resulting in micro stuttering.
But we're passed that now.

I'm actually wondering if I should start a new thread relating to the discussion of lip sync between the Oppo and LG.
 

SeeMoreDigital

Well-known Member
I'm actually wondering if I should start a new thread relating to the discussion of lip sync between the Oppo and LG.
Good idea... Why not ask the moderators to do it for you?
 

Gavtech

Administrator

Gavtech

Administrator
New thread now created.
 

Keane

Distinguished Member
I’ve had persistent issues with lip sync on my 203 and E6 - will try the workaround later and report back [emoji1303]
 

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