Lionsgate starts using DTS-HD Resolution ES soundtracks.

BadAss

Banned
Heres a strange one. Lionsgate are using a DTS-HD soundtrack on four of its latest titles due out on the 22nd Aug.

The titles are Total Recall, The Devils rejects, Stargate and Stir of Echos.

It seems a little strange to include a HD track when space on a BD25 is limited and theres no decoder capable of using it yet. Especialy when you look at Total Recall which in its self is 120mins long and uses a data busting AR of 1.85:1.

Do you think Lionsgate know something we don't?
 

lfletcher

Well-known Member
I thought the rumour was you could now label full bitrate normal DTS soundtracks as a form of DTS HD, which is what they might be doing here.

Hope the rumour is wrong as its about time someone started to introduce the HD DTS audio soundtracks.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Nope, 99% certain these are all BD25. Would imagine the first BD50 will be a Sony title.
Surely we are about to see the first BD50? Black Hawk Down seems to be still scheduled for August 15. BluRay has alot riding on that release and I'm sure they would have issued a press release if it was going to be delayed...
 

lfletcher

Well-known Member
Yep, agree - Black Hawk Down is supposed to be out in a week, but quite a few retailers have moved it from an August 15th date to an unknown one in the future. Not sure its actually coming.
 

Forest Fan

Active Member
DTS-HD should take up less space than the uncompressed PCM that Sony uses, so I'd expect slightly better PQ than the Sony titles.
 

Angry the Clown

Novice Member
Are they ‘DTS HD' or ‘DTS HD Master Audio' though, as only the latter is now the term used to represent DTS' form of lossless packing. DTS HD is just a new term for 1509kbps full bitrate DTS, though content providers are still free to simply refer to full bitrate DTS as plain old DTS on their packaging.

For example, on HD DVD, some Universal titles and most/all Paramount titles have a full bitrate DTS track. Sky Captain has an advertised DTS HD track, but it's actually just full bitrate lossy DTS like on other Universal/Paramount discs, but this isn't a marketing blunder, as it is in fact correct advertising, just inconsistent.

DTS essentially wanted to market themselves better to oppose Dolby Digital Plus, so they rebranded the lossy encoding as 'DTS HD' to make it sound like something new and important, and subsequently DTS' lossless presentation format became known as DTS HD Master Audio.

Surely we are about to see the first BD50? Black Hawk Down seems to be still scheduled for August 15. BluRay has alot riding on that release and I'm sure they would have issued a press release if it was going to be delayed...
Remains to be seen. We might just find that Black Hawk Down was quietly downgraded to single layer. When they actually announced it the spec still showed it to be rather stripped back in terms of delivering all the special features the deluxe edition DVD offered, so it's either 25gb or it's the first 50gb that might in itself be a joke because the boast of all that space still wouldn't allow them to bring over everything from the DVD thanks to their instance on siding with MPEG2 and uncompressed PCM (when ironically if the film and extras were all VC1 encoded they could get the movie and its two discs worth of DVD special features onto a dual layer 30gb HD DVD with potential room to spare for a TrueHD track).
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
We might just find that Black Hawk Down was quietly downgraded to single layer. When they actually announced it the spec still showed it to be rather stripped back in terms of delivering all the special features the deluxe edition DVD offered, so it's either 25gb or it's the first 50gb that might in itself be a joke because the boast of all that space still wouldn't allow them to bring over everything from the DVD thanks to their instance on siding with MPEG2 and uncompressed PCM
I guess we'll know in a weeks time - will BluRay have become a credible format or limped off again to fight another day?
 

Angry the Clown

Novice Member
will BluRay have become a credible format or limped off again to fight another day?
I'd say a lot of it will depend on how much spin they can put on a handful of 50gb releases coming to market this year, which I do believe will happen. Whether people are then in the position to think that everything would then be hunky dory with the format on the basis of a few 50gb titles alone would remain to be seen. It's just that it's one thing to boast “hey, look, we can do it! Ha ha!” and another thing entirely to say “hey look, we can produce discs reliably in mass quantities!” because the latter claim is the more significant of the two.
 

richard plumb

Distinguished Member
Angry the Clown said:
I’d say a lot of it will depend on how much spin they can put on a handful of 50gb releases coming to market this year, which I do believe will happen. Whether people are then in the position to think that everything would then be hunky dory with the format on the basis of a few 50gb titles alone would remain to be seen. It’s just that it’s one thing to boast “hey, look, we can do it! Ha ha!” and another thing entirely to say “hey look, we can produce discs reliably in mass quantities!” because the latter claim is the more significant of the two.

you'd think it wouldn't be that difficult to get 50GB discs out. Its not like 'mass produce' is really 'mass' considering how many bluray players are out there. They could probably hand craft 10k units and satisfy most demand.
 

Angry the Clown

Novice Member
you'd think it wouldn't be that difficult to get 50GB discs out. Its not like 'mass produce' is really 'mass' considering how many bluray players are out there. They could probably hand craft 10k units and satisfy most demand.
Sure, unless they're in such a dire position where 10k isn't even feasible. The view of mass production extends beyond the ability to get x amount of discs onto the shelves really and I think goes so far as to include whether Blu Ray's backers would find 50gb replication freely available as a viable option for their releases. If they're going to push more data on to BD-Roms to try and maximise capacity then chances are they're going to have to waste more money in replication in trying to do so due to low yields. So they're faced with two choices, waste money in going that route, or strip back disc content in some way or another and keep data from reaching that outer layer where yields appear to become most unstable.

Before the format launched there were indications yields were tough even on 25gb discs. A good number of titles have been reaching about 24gb however, but the fact the Warner releases hover around 21gb/22gb has brought these rumours into light again because indeed, it may just back up the theory that in this case Sony would perhaps rather maximise disc capacity on single layer releases where possible but lose more money in replication due to having to toss more finished discs straight in the bin, and Warner on the other hand would potentially rather do the opposite and keep data from exceeding 23gb where possible in order to get more for their money and have a greater success rate on the replication lines.

Obviously if it is indeed true that the cost to yield ratio is messy even on single layer, then it stands to reason it would be at least doubly so for 50gb, so again even in low quantities studios would be faced with the conundrum of putting 50gb discs out there at the cost of a potentially significant loss to them financially, or not put them out there at all. Sony, one would imagine, is in the greater position of being willing to accept such losses if it means they can shout “I told you so” in the hope of making things look good from a marketing point of view, even if it's really damaging them financially in the real world behind the wizard's curtains.
 

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