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Lions squad

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
Nver mind the starting 15 at this moment ,who will make the the squad of 37 and who will be the captain .The bookies favourite for the captaincy would appear to be Warburton but i say thats a mistake as he is not necessarily the best 7 .Tipuric has that honour so I say let go for Paul O'connel who is such an inspirational figure and an excellent lock who is highly experienced and respected.As for the squad not sure what the total will be but i am going fopr 37 so with that in mind here goes

15 -Leigh Halfpenny , Stuart Hogg,Mike brown

Wings-George North, Sean Maitland, , Simon Zebo,Christian Wade( my left field selection)

Centres -Brian O'Driscoll, Jamie Roberts, Jonathan Davies, Manu Tuilagi.

F/H- Jonathan Sexton, Billy Twelvetrees(can play 12 as well), Owen Farrell

S/H-Mike Phillips, Ben Youngs,Danny Care

Props Gethin Jenkins, Mako Vunipola, Cian Healy, Adam Jones, Dan Cole ,Ewan Murray
locks-Joe Launchbury, Paul O'Connell(capt), Alun Wyn Jones, Ian Evans
hooker - Tom Youngs Richard Hibbard, Rory Best
flanker- Chris Robshaw, Justin Tipuric, Sam Warburton , Sean O'Brien ,Tom Croft
Number 8- Johnnie Beattie ,Ben Morgan
 

Clunk

Prominent Member
If you remember, Gatland has stated that the tour captain won't necessarily be game captain in each test. It will be more of a squad captain role - to set the standard and be an ambassador for the tour, on an off the field and in the media. What he doesn't want to do is choose a game captain now, and then be forced to select all his teams around that choice. Form and injuries play such a part that flexibility is needed.

IMO Warburton is the right choice for this role, which he performed superbly in RWC11 and the subsequent 6N campaign. He has also demonstrated this year that he has no qualms playing under a different match captain as the situation demands. He is pretty much guaranteed a spot in the test 23 IMO - whether at 7, 6, or on the bench covering the whole back row, and will promote the right attitude no matter where and how he is used (or just as importantly, not used).

If others (O'Driscoll, O'Connell, AWJ, Jenkins, Robshaw, etc) are a better choice for captaincy in a given game/test match - then I have no doubt Gatland will select them as such. Warburton will back this approach, from within the team, from the bench, and from the stands. And the squad mentality will be better for it.

I'm not sure the same would necessarily be said for some of the other captaincy options if they found themselves benched, outside the match 23, or injured. Previous tours (2001, 2005) have come off the rails slightly due to squad disharmony, and Gatland understands the dynamic of the tour (the 2009 tour looked tighter than any since 1997 - Geech knew how important this is).
 
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Ivor the Engine

Established Member
Breaking News - Johnny Wilkinson ruled himself out of Lions.

Give. Me. A. Break.

Smacks of yesteryear and a total non story.
 

BT Bob

Distinguished Member
Looks a pretty well-balanced selection to me. Hartley stands out as being the luckiest bloke there. I fail to see what he brings to any team. Rory Best must be pretty gutted.
 

Clunk

Prominent Member
Okay in full:

Backs:
Leigh Halfpenny,
Stuart Hogg,
Rob Kearney,
Tommy Bowe,
Alex Cuthbert,
Sean Maitland,
George North,
Jonathan Davies,
Brian O'Driscoll,
Jamie Roberts,
Manu Tuilagi,
Owen Farrell,
Jonathan Sexton,
Conor Murray,
Mike Phillips,
Ben Youngs.

Forwards:
Dan Cole,
Cian Healy,
Gethin Jenkins,
Adam Jones,
Matt Stevens,
Mako Vunipola,
Dylan Hartley,
Richard Hibbard,
Tom Youngs,
Ian Evans,
Richie Gray,
Alun-Wyn Jones,
Paul O'Connell,
Geoff Parling,
Tom Croft,
Toby Faletau,
Jamie Heaslip,
Dan Lydiate,
Sean O'Brien,
Justin Tipuric,
Sam Warburton
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
Looks a pretty well-balanced selection to me. Hartley stands out as being the luckiest bloke there. I fail to see what he brings to any team. Rory Best must be pretty gutted.

yes I agree but then I think Faletau is massively overrated. I wouid have Ben Morgan who is the best ball carrying number 8 by a country mile.Lydiate can also count himself very lucky as he has only just come back from injury and is in no way match fit . Tom Wood would have been my man
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Looks a pretty well-balanced selection to me. Hartley stands out as being the luckiest bloke there. I fail to see what he brings to any team. Rory Best must be pretty gutted.

Got to agree with that one. Think I would have picked Ken Owen over Hartley, but certainly not over Best. Glad to see Ian Evans has made the squad, certainly one of the most consistent locks in the 6 Nations.
 

travid

Distinguished Member
BT Bob said:
Looks a pretty well-balanced selection to me. Hartley stands out as being the luckiest bloke there. I fail to see what he brings to any team. Rory Best must be pretty gutted.

Agreed also Bob. Best has every right to be a little peeved, to say the least!
 

BT Bob

Distinguished Member
yes I agree but then I think Faletau is massively overrated. I wouid have Ben Morgan who is the best ball carrying number 8 by a country mile.Lydiate can also count himself very lucky as he has only just come back from injury and is in no way match fit . Tom Wood would have been my man

I think Faletau will become a great player. The thing is, he strikes a great balance with Warburton and Lydiate - and Gatland has made no secret of his desire to have a very mobile back row.

I can imagine that picking the back row was the most difficult - the UK is blessed with some incredible players in these positions and you could pick almost any combination. That's where Robshaw's fallen foul I think - I don't see him as a specialist 7 or 6, more a utility back-rower. Still think he's unlucky to not be involved.

Hard to argue with your comments re Morgan - he was showing terrific form before he got injured in the 6N.

To some extent I think Gatland is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't with some of his selections, and a lot of the selection process takes account of players' personalities and how they'll gel together when they're away for 7 weeks.

Also, keep in mind there's almost certainly going to be players not in the 37 who will be called up and will play. Didn't Rob Andrew miss the cut a few years ago and get called up and have some dream performances?

I'm lucky enough to be going to HK & Aus - we have tickets for the Barbarians game but can't get them for any of Aus games. May be reliant on the scalpies outside the grounds - although, given the exchange rate may be watching them all in bars!

Can't wait now...... bring it on. :smashin:
 
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Ivor the Engine

Established Member
but then I think Faletau is massively overrated.

I shall point the learned gentleman towards the 2nd try in the Wales v England game this year.

TF takes ball from kick off, evades 4 or 5 English tacklers on his 22 metre line and then puts his head down for an extra couple of metres. It's pure poetry.

Have to agree about Best but Hibbard has been like a man possessed.
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
I shall point the learned gentleman towards the 2nd try in the Wales v England game this year.

TF takes ball from kick off, evades 4 or 5 English tacklers on his 22 metre line and then puts his head down for an extra couple of metres. It's pure poetry.

Have to agree about Best but Hibbard has been like a man possessed.

It could be that its the only way the Welsh will ever beat the Australians, ie within a Lions context
 

gibbsy

Moderator
It could be that its the only way the Welsh will ever beat the Australians, ie within a Lions context

Oh, so sorry for nicking your RBS Trophy.:rolleyes: What was the score again? Ah, I remember, we beat you by 27 points.:smashin:

Could be a good omen for the Lions, so many Welshmen playing. In the 1971 tour to New Zealand 10 Welshmen took to the field in the first test, 1 Chico Hopkins as a replacement for an injured Gareth Edwards, which the Lions won 3-9. 8 in the second test 22-12, 7 in the third 3-13 and 7 again the the fourth test 14-14.

1974 in South Africa Wales fielded 6 players in every test. The series was won 3-12, 9-28, 9-26 and 13-13. We also won all the fights on that tour.
 

BT Bob

Distinguished Member

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
Oh, so sorry for nicking your RBS Trophy.:rolleyes: What was the score again? Ah, I remember, we beat you by 27 points.:smashin:

Could be a good omen for the Lions, so many Welshmen playing. In the 1971 tour to New Zealand 10 Welshmen took to the field in the first test, 1 Chico Hopkins as a replacement for an injured Gareth Edwards, which the Lions won 3-9. 8 in the second test 22-12, 7 in the third 3-13 and 7 again the the fourth test 14-14.

1974 in South Africa Wales fielded 6 players in every test. The series was won 3-12, 9-28, 9-26 and 13-13. We also won all the fights on that tour.

and is the only remote chance Wales might have of beating OZ, they lost the last 8 on the trot if I am not wrong.With a decent pair of centres- BOD and Manu, decent fly half -Sexton, decent -S/H B Youngs decent No6 Croft,decent pair of locks Grey and O'Connell,decent loosehead- Healey and a decent hooker Tom Youngs, they might just pull it off
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
feel for Robshaw as he has been outstanding and certainly worthy of a place instead of Lidiate who is not even match fit. Wilko will probably join as well at some point despite his statement to the contrary.The current squad has only two F/Hs
 

Amph

Distinguished Member
and is the only remote chance Wales might have of beating OZ, they lost the last 8 on the trot if I am not wrong.With a decent pair of centres- BOD and Manu, decent fly half -Sexton, decent -S/H B Youngs decent No6 Croft,decent pair of locks Grey and O'Connell,decent loosehead- Healey and a decent hooker Tom Youngs, they might just pull it off

Your bitterness and arrogance is outstanding.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
feel for Robshaw as he has been outstanding and certainly worthy of a place instead of Lidiate who is not even match fit. Wilko will probably join as well at some point despite his statement to the contrary.The current squad has only two F/Hs

England's players bottled it against a brutal Welsh side in Cardiff. The Welsh back row destroyed England at the breakdown with Wales eager to attack from any turnover. Robshaw is a good flanker, but not a great one. Should he have gone on the tour or was Ryan Jones a better choice, he had played superbly until his injury.

Was it you LGS, or someone else, who blamed the English defeat on the referee and even the noise and singing at the Millenium Stadium. Poor old Clive Woodward insisted at half time that England would score a few tries in the last 20 minutes of the game to win it, I don't know what game he was watching.

Most of the English players blew their chances of the tour in Cardiff. That's a fact, like it or lump it.
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
England's players bottled it against a brutal Welsh side in Cardiff. The Welsh back row destroyed England at the breakdown with Wales eager to attack from any turnover. Robshaw is a good flanker, but not a great one. Should he have gone on the tour or was Ryan Jones a better choice, he had played superbly until his injury.

Was it you LGS, or someone else, who blamed the English defeat on the referee and even the noise and singing at the Millenium Stadium. Poor old Clive Woodward insisted at half time that England would score a few tries in the last 20 minutes of the game to win it, I don't know what game he was watching.

Most of the English players blew their chances of the tour in Cardiff. That's a fact, like it or lump it.
Being as you are a one eyed Welshman it doesnt surprise me re your comment. Fact is Wales have been useless over the AI ,have lost repeatedly to OZ and had but one outstanding match against England.Making a judgement based on one match is stupid beyond belief, but thats Gatland and he is Wales coach
I would pick Robshaw over Jones any day, the man is simply awesome and has had a bad deal.Someone is bound to get injured and he will take his place, which he fully deserves
 

BT Bob

Distinguished Member
Being as you are a one eyed Welshman it doesnt surprise me re your comment. Fact is Wales have been useless over the AI ,have lost repeatedly to OZ and had but one outstanding match against England.Making a judgement based on one match is stupid beyond belief, but thats Gatland and he is Wales coach
I would pick Robshaw over Jones any day, the man is simply awesome and has had a bad deal.Someone is bound to get injured and he will take his place, which he fully deserves

Clearly the views of a one-eyed Englishman.

Wales definitely had a poor AI series, but built steadily during the 6N. Admittedly their record against Australia isn't great.

Robshaw is a decent player and a good captain, but he's a victim of being a utility back-rower, not a specialist (Brian Moore's words, not mine). I believe the same could be argued of Ryan Jones.

Robshaw is NOT awesome. Richie McCaw is awesome. David Pocock is awesome. Robshaw is not in that class.

The bottom line here though, is this is all nonsense.

This is a Lions team. It represents the UK - not England v Wales v Scotland v Ireland.

Just get behind the squad.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Being as you are a one eyed Welshman it doesnt surprise me re your comment. Fact is Wales have been useless over the AI ,have lost repeatedly to OZ and had but one outstanding match against England.Making a judgement based on one match is stupid beyond belief, but thats Gatland and he is Wales coach
I would pick Robshaw over Jones any day, the man is simply awesome and has had a bad deal.Someone is bound to get injured and he will take his place, which he fully deserves

Would you say the English performance against Italy was good? As the 6 Nations progressed two teams performances went south, ie, Ireland and England. I thought the slam would be going Englands way. Everyone likes to see their national team win and I was farely convinced and quite vitrionic after Wales' defeat at the hands of Ireland. But Wales ground out results and got better.

I like my rugby, I watched every game in the 6 Nations. I definately enjoy the games where Wales are not involved and after the first weekend I thought like many others that we were in for a treat. We were not. But as for England's performances they most certainly did become very poor. The Italian game had the English troubled and at the end of it I was licking my lips with anticipation of the game in Cardiff.

Was it harder for Wales to come back from a poor Autumn and defeat to Ireland or was it easier for England to drop off towards the end of the tournament. It wasn't just the hammering that England endured in Cardiff but the writing was on the wall with a below par performance against Italy.

The Lion's squad has been picked, I'm now and always have been 100% behind it and wish them luck downunder. I don't think Gatland has been influenced by his Welsh connection, he is, after all a Kiwi and no Kiwi wants to lose anything against the Wallabies.
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
Would you say the English performance against Italy was good? As the 6 Nations progressed two teams performances went south, ie, Ireland and England. I thought the slam would be going Englands way. Everyone likes to see their national team win and I was farely convinced and quite vitrionic after Wales' defeat at the hands of Ireland. But Wales ground out results and got better.

I like my rugby, I watched every game in the 6 Nations. I definately enjoy the games where Wales are not involved and after the first weekend I thought like many others that we were in for a treat. We were not. But as for England's performances they most certainly did become very poor. The Italian game had the English troubled and at the end of it I was licking my lips with anticipation of the game in Cardiff.

Was it harder for Wales to come back from a poor Autumn and defeat to Ireland or was it easier for England to drop off towards the end of the tournament. It wasn't just the hammering that England endured in Cardiff but the writing was on the wall with a below par performance against Italy.

The Lion's squad has been picked, I'm now and always have been 100% behind it and wish them luck downunder. I don't think Gatland has been influenced by his Welsh connection, he is, after all a Kiwi and no Kiwi wants to lose anything against the Wallabies.

England produced a very good performance against scotland and good one against ireland in very difficult conditions.Admittedly the game against italy was poor and should have served as awarding .Nevertheless when one takes into account the plusses from the 6N plus an outstanding victory against the ABs( when did Wales last beat them? Oh in 1971, with the help of English ,Irish and Scottish players) then its obvious the English representation is not what it should be .In my book it should have been on a par with Wales
 

gibbsy

Moderator
England produced a very good performance against scotland and good one against ireland in very difficult conditions.Admittedly the game against italy was poor and should have served as awarding .Nevertheless when one takes into account the plusses from the 6N plus an outstanding victory against the ABs( when did Wales last beat them? Oh in 1971, with the help of English ,Irish and Scottish players) then its obvious the English representation is not what it should be .In my book it should have been on a par with Wales

So, according to the form books, and you, England should have stuffed Wales in Cardiff and run away with the RBS 6 Nations Slam. Wales were in a dire situation, an awful autumn and a number of first choice players out through injury. Yet England only managed to score 3 points. That's not the score you would expect from 'one of the best teams in the world' and every excuse has been produced since.

The referee hated England. The roof was shut and those bloody Taffies made too much noise. The Lions selectors have picked a squad on performances during the 6 Nations, not the autumn internationals and only a few are there because of their reputations. You keep on harping back and 'nah nah nah, when did you beat the All Blacks' and it makes you look like a really sour pussed Sais.

I think every Welshman on here congratulated England on their win over the All Blacks, yet after our hammering of the English there has been nothing but moan moan moan.

its coming from all over the place not just the Mail .The fact that this is the very first time england have ever raises an issue like this speaks volumes.How much did the WRFU pay Walsh?

Whenever I have watched a rugby match between England and Wales and where the latter felt very confident of a win ,the reactions and general behaviour have been the same, except yesterday's was by a long way the most over the top, with all the ridiculous pre match razzmatazz ,excessive noise during the game itself and completely ungracious comments from certain quarters after the game(Jiffy excluded).JPR was particularly obnoxious but then we have kind of gotten used to accept his oafish comments over the years .We realise, of course, that they come from having a chronic inferiority complex.

you lost against ireland in the first match, so no slam .That was last season.Your team also got mullared during the autumn internationals so they are not as good as you think they are, but thats a different issue


Recognise any of these comments LGS. Bad loser or what?
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
So, according to the form books, and you, England should have stuffed Wales in Cardiff and run away with the RBS 6 Nations Slam. Wales were in a dire situation, an awful autumn and a number of first choice players out through injury. Yet England only managed to score 3 points. That's not the score you would expect from 'one of the best teams in the world' and every excuse has been produced since.

The referee hated England. The roof was shut and those bloody Taffies made too much noise. The Lions selectors have picked a squad on performances during the 6 Nations, not the autumn internationals and only a few are there because of their reputations. You keep on harping back and 'nah nah nah, when did you beat the All Blacks' and it makes you look like a really sour pussed Sais.

I think every Welshman on here congratulated England on their win over the All Blacks, yet after our hammering of the English there has been nothing but moan moan moan.

its coming from all over the place not just the Mail .The fact that this is the very first time england have ever raises an issue like this speaks volumes.How much did the WRFU pay Walsh?

Whenever I have watched a rugby match between England and Wales and where the latter felt very confident of a win ,the reactions and general behaviour have been the same, except yesterday's was by a long way the most over the top, with all the ridiculous pre match razzmatazz ,excessive noise during the game itself and completely ungracious comments from certain quarters after the game(Jiffy excluded).JPR was particularly obnoxious but then we have kind of gotten used to accept his oafish comments over the years .We realise, of course, that they come from having a chronic inferiority complex.

you lost against ireland in the first match, so no slam .That was last season.Your team also got mullared during the autumn internationals so they are not as good as you think they are, but thats a different issue


Recognise any of these comments LGS. Bad loser or what?

i didnt say that. I simply said that based on the last 6 months Wales record is not better than England's in fact its worse ,but Gatland made his English /Welsh choices based on the last match , which in my view is wrong.A lot cam happen from one match to the next.I am glad he has included Heaslip and Bowe and not been swayed by their respective lack of form or fitness
There are number of players who would no doubt feel hard done by, Robshaw is one and so is Best.I would even include James Hook as Roberts is the only specialist 12 and he's is more of a crash ball merchant( meat and drink to an Aussie) Hook would have offered something different but as he said himself he is used to being snubbed , in other words Gatland does not fancy him.
 

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