Lindy 4x4 Matrix issues

stevolution

Novice Member
Hello all. New to the forum, so hoping to contribute as well as ask for help!

I am currently in a customers home, and our company installed a Lindy 4x4 HDMI 4K matrix.

This currently serves a Samsung 42" smart TV and a Samsung 55" LED smart TV.
Inputs are Sky HD+ on input 1, Cinebox (media box) on input 2, Xbox one on input 3 and a security camera DVR on input 4.
They used active Lindy HDMI leads to the TV's - no run further that 10M and well away from any interference.

The problem is the matrix occasionally fails to send the signal from any source through to the TV's, and only rebooting the matrix fixes it.

We have set the matrix to force a 1080p EDID, and this has helped....but not cured the problem.
Auto mode was worse.

To be honest, the whole system has been a pain, as the first Lindy Matrix was faulty and after a day of messing around, had to be returned.

Any ideas why the system.... when you turn on the TV (usually the 55") doesn't always result in a signal?
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
'Any ideas why the system.... when you turn on the TV (usually the 55") doesn't always result in a signal?' - there are any number of reasons why HDMI/HDCP/EDID doesn't always work.

'They used active Lindy HDMI leads to the TV's' - who is 'they'?

What Tech do the Active cables utilise? Are they powered by the Source or the Sink?

No matter if you are going 10m or 50m an 'integrated' solution (preferably with HDBT) with good HDCP and EDID management is always best and if the customer won’t go that route due to costs I would walk away as YOU are going to lose money when the 'cascaded' system fails to deliver.

DIY is fine when you are on your own time and can afford to take the time to find a working solution - when you are on the clock you want to be installing pre-tested solutions you know work every time.

Joe
 

stevolution

Novice Member
The HDMI leads were what I was supplied with (not cheap ones) Not sure where the active leads are powered from.
I had a look and there is no indication which end provides the power to the leads.

I keep telling our company to steer clear of this stuff.... either do it properly, or don't do it at all. We are having a lot of issues.

We had issues with the TV's not being able to chose a resolution, so I set the Lindy Matrix DIP switches to force 1080p (rightly or wrongly), as I knew all the sources could provide that.
That seemed to fix the problem.
But now if you turn on the TV's (especially the main bedroom one now... it sometimes just says no signal and only a matrix reboot cures the problem.

That says to me possibly that the Matrix is re-negotiating the edid with the TV? Totally guessing there.

Trouble is... I have to fix it!
 
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Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
'They'... is my boss who basically can't be told anything! :facepalm:

'I had a look and there is no indication which end provides the power to the leads.' - would be worth asking Lindy Tech Support, if they are powered from the Source end that may be causing the Matrix a problem.

'force 1080p' - I would try setting the Source(s) and Matrix EDID to 1080i (it's what SKY Outputs, is a lot less bandwidth than 1080p and if it works its very unlikely anyone will notice [unless they happen to read AVF :)]).

HDMI CEC Control - ensure you have this disabled on all Source and Display devices.

Deep Color - ensure you have this disabled on any Sources with that option.

Power Cycle - try to not be connecting/disconnecting kit when the system is powered on and same goes for the customers daily routine. Everything In/Out of Standby may be more stable than some kit being powered Off and others being left in Standby.

Joe
 

stevolution

Novice Member
Can't really change the HDMI leads now... all run through the house under the flooring. Only the longest run is Active - at 15m if I remember rightly.... the shorter runs are standard but good quality HDMI.

Going back to spend a day troubleshooting... Ii will let you know the results
 

stevolution

Novice Member
OK. Sorry to resurrect this thread a little... but I have spent the day on site and we have not made any progress.
Here is where we stand.

The Harmony remote has definitely got issues.. its having problems turning on a bedroom Samsung TV.
You go into the software and re-teach it the power on/off command for that TV and it works fine.

Switch to the second input on the Matrix and then return to the first input and bizarrely... the Harmony remote has forgotten the working on/off code for that TV. You have to re-teach it the code.
No idea why this happens, as changing the Matrix channel has nothing at all to do with the Harmony remote.

As for this nightmare Lindy matrix -

4x4 HDMI 4K True Matrix Switch | LINDY UK

This replacement second one appears to have died as well. The first one certainly went screwy and Lindy tech help put it on the test bench and confirmed it was a dud.
This one today... you would have output 2 switched to view say... Sky on input 1.
if you turned on the TV in the living room (output 1) it would kill all outputs from the matrix until you power cycled the matrix.

Also, earlier in the day, it would randomly just drop the source after 10 minutes for no apparent reason.

Even though our AV cabinet has 2x extract fans, I am wondering if it still was getting too hot and therefore the chipset was having an overheat issue. The case does feel very hot (so therefore it obviously needs a cooling fan built in).

Lindy have been totally useless in resolving this issue and have now taken the second matrix back to bench test as well. We are yet another day of labour in the hole with no resolution to the issue.

Very frustrating!

Oh... and I have passed on the details of your website Joe to my boss.
Steve
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
'if you turned on the TV in the living room (output 1) it would kill all outputs from the matrix until you power cycled the matrix' - would def. be checking that CEC is disabled on all devices!

'Oh... and I have passed on the details of your website Joe to my boss.' - Cheers Steve :smashin:

Joe
 

stevolution

Novice Member
Yep.. CEC is disabled Joe (as is BD Wise - although that doesn't matter).

OK... We investigated further today and the long HDMI lead, which I believe is 15M is not active. I thought it was (I would have used active). Therefore, that is probably pushing its limits. I was a very high quality lead from Lindy, but still... that is a long un-powered run.

Is it possible that the long lead is working 'just' when that is the only sink, and when a second sink is added to the matrix, the source signal drops too low and the matrix has an issue?
Really grasping at straws here.

Is there such a tester that we could invest in that displays the level of HDMI signal we are receiving at the sink end? Pretty sure they will cost a penny, but might be worth it.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
CEC - needs to be disabled in all devices, then I'd power cycle the entire system.

15m HDMI - I'd try a powered extender at the Sink end of the 15m cable, Media Factory - Octava HDE-UK, HDMI cable extender

HDMI test gear - you get into the big ££££ for anything really useful, they wont fix anything just confirm what the problem is!

Joe
 

stevolution

Novice Member
Thanks Joe. CEC is certainly disabled in all devices (which is basically the TV's). Don't think anything else has CEC built in (Sky, Cinebox, Xbox360 and security DVR)

Power cycled everything more times than I can remember now

Hoping we get a new Lindy matrix back tomorrow after their bench tests. Going to move it right up under the two extract fans to help cooling and see what happens.

Nightmare job!
 
Is it possible to test the TV at the end of the 15M run with a shorter lead somehow to see if the problem is the cable or the TV. Maybe move sources and Switch temporarily into the same room with another TV(s)
 

stevolution

Novice Member
Well Lindy called today to say that the Matrix has failed their bench test! That is the second Matrix failure in a few weeks on that job.
Time to stay away from Lindy equipment!
 
You may also want to check that something else isn't "frying" the matrixes, very odd to have two fail in the same way. I suspect all Lindy will have done is just test to see if the matrixes work or not and do no more investigation as what caused the failure.

Possible causes :-
Heat
HotPlugging HDMI Cables
Power surge
and many other possibilities

From the other symptoms there is definitely something strange going on and I suspect it either the cable or the TV on the long run
 

stevolution

Novice Member
Well I never hot-plug the HDMI's. They apparently have had a Matrix in a 'hot box' trying to make it fail.
It was running pretty damn hot to the touch - even when sat on its own.
Can't think what would cause a matrix to get hot.
 

Member 373730

Novice Member
We are currently investigating this issue with the company. At the moment we have a unit on test which has been under load and temperature stress since friday. This has yet to display any issue which the customer has experienced. We had tried all cable ranges we stock and a variety of monitors / TVs ranging from 720p panels to 4k.

We can find faults only with the two returned units and are unable to replicate this with any unit from stock. We had sold a number of these units and have had no returns or any reports of any issues of this nature.

15m HDMI cables are not recommended on either the input or output, the maximum for the chipset used is 10m in/out. We have only found out that this is a non active cable by reading the forum. We would only recommend active cables if trying to achieve 15m on the output.

Under normal ambient conditions the unit doesn't exceed its operating temperature (or even come close) but we have tested a stock item well above the recommended (40c) max without any issue. It would be good to know the exact ambient temp of the AV rack, as I understand this is enclosed with a few pieces of AV equipment (but has cooling fans?)

We are looking at the possibility that a combination of the heat and long HDMI cable runs may contribute to intermittent failure (requiring power cycles) and possible damage to the unit.
 

stevolution

Novice Member
Ok. I may have to defend ourselves a little here.

We called back to site and measured the HDMI leads (there are only 2 in use anyway).

One is 7.5M and one is 10M. Welcome to pop over and measure them.

Where the 15M came from I am not sure, but that is incorrect (slight of memory probably).

To be honest, the length of the HMDI lead didn’t really register as a possible issue earlier on in the post – hence the guess at its length.

I do find it hard to swallow that a piece of modern AV equipment would internally fail in such a way, simply due to an over length HDMI lead anyway. I would expect a drop in performance, perhaps an inability to deal with Edid or resolution.... but not a chipset failure as is indicated as the possible cause.

Looking at it from our perspective, we now have going on for 6/7 days lost labour on this install trying to resolve what should be a simple problem. The customer now has no TV system at all and we are back to square one.

The AV cabinet does not have much in the way of equipment actually in it.

The Xbox One is on its own shelf 600mm below all the other equipment (as that does produce a lot of heat during gaming).

The shelf about 500mm above has the SKY HD box, a DVR (that runs pretty cool as it is not supplying any power to the cameras - they have their own supply elsewhere) and the Lindy Matrix - which was on the top less than 300mm from the 2x 250mm extract fans that run constantly.

Other small units in the cupboard are not really a problem - router, Sonos bridge etc. They all sat separately.

As contractors, all we really ask is reliable equipment with backup when we get into issues.

Lindy took the Matrix's back for bench testing which is great and we thank them for investigating the problem, but it leaves us now totally stuck and severely out of pocket due to what I see as a poor piece of AV equipment design (not actually Lindys fault).

Such equipment should not fail irreparably before some kind of safety takes over. Surely all it would take is a temp sensor inside the unit (if indeed, that is the cause of the failure).

Furthermore, we cannot explain to the customer what the problem is, as we don’t 100% know ourselves.

Hopefully, we can get this issue resolved and give the customer a working TV!
 

stevolution

Novice Member
Just thought I should update where we stand. I hate unfinished posts!
We installed a Wyrestorm MX0404STD Matrix and all is well. No problems with the standard 10M HDMI lead.
Must have been either a dud batch of Lindy matrix, or a matrix design issue.
Anyway... progress has been made.
 

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