Lik-Sang.com out of business due to multiple Sony lawsuits

You know its a real shame that these forums just denegrate into slamming and personal attack. I am sharing my opinion, you can disagree with it or put an alternative view. I import and export for a living and so I know the pitfalls of selling goods through unofficial channels, failing to sell at constant prices and failing to declare accurate profits and pay the appropriate taxes. I also undertand the corporate liabilities asscociated with injury and damage to thrid parties, with my products however they arose in that market. They are my products and I am responsible for compliance, not the retailer or the importer. The law is very rarely how we would like it. Ignorance is no defence in European Law. In fact, ignorance will probably compound the damages you are likely to pay.

First and foremost, you don't have to believe me or listen to me, but may I remind you that this company was found guilty in a court of law, i.e. what they were doing was found to be illegal - period. We can all feel sorry for the little guy here, but the law doesn't.

Now to answer some specific comments.

How can a game be illegal across territories - that is simple, content. Certain things are forbidden in one country to another. When the game Return to Castle Wolfenstien was first conceived it was the "Nazi's v the Allies." The word Nazi is frowned upon in many countries, e.g. Germany and France and so it was changed to Axis v Allies.

Wasn't the PSP made in the same factory for the world? well yes, and if you read my original post, this is exactly what I said. However, just as I make all my products in my factory, I still have to perform tests and produce certificates [all very different, I may add] for the destination. These tests carry cost and liabilities. If I said my product had been tested to Japanese law, and it hadn't I would be in breach of the Law and be liable.

Will the US PS3 not work in Europe? Simple answer, no, not as intended! It will not play region 2 SD DVD's and will not read Region B Blu Ray. It will not carry a European warranty or the appropriate power supply. You and me on these forums know that, but for the less well informed member of the public, if they should acquire this product, knowingly or not, may assume that he has a faulty unit when his Shrek DVD doesn't work. He will wander down to his local Sony Centre for a replacement or a fix. Why should Sony undertake that expense for a product that actually works quite well where it was supposed to be sold, but not here because it was never intended to be sold here?

Finally, Sony, by turning a blind eye to the activities of this company could be accused of purposely flouting European Law. Microsoft have tried to deliberately flout European Law for the last 6 years - see what good that did them.

The last point. Lik-Sang, sold products from 100's of companies. Ask yourself this. If all they had to do, was stop selling products from Sony, how can that put them out of business? They were apparently free to sell all these other products? [I doubt it actually, because since this ruling, they would have been liable for anything they were selling on this basis from dozens of similar compainies].

"this is all down to money... nothing else..." Of course its down to money ***!

Slam all you like...but this is the reality. Bib Bob, you haven't a clue what your talking about re the law and how it is applied. You might like to think what I say is ridicoulous and post to that effect, but you are quite wrong I am afraid.
 
What about Pixmania then? Do they need to be shut down as they frequently send out good from their base in france with only a French manual and euro plugs. They say that english manuals are available to download off thier site. Lik-Sang also make English manuals available this way.



I payed tax on my PSP from Lik-Sang.

Pixmainia are selling from one EEC country to another, in the free market - the EEC. Their manuals are in an official European language and they also point you in the direction of how to acquire an English one - they also do this in the English Langauge [another official langauge of the EEC]
 
Wasn't the PSP made in the same factory for the world? well yes, and if you read my original post, this is exactly what I said. However, just as I make all my products in my factory, I still have to perform tests and produce certificates [all very different, I may add] for the destination. These tests carry cost and liabilities. If I said my product had been tested to Japanese law, and it hadn't I would be in breach of the Law and be liable.

Sony haven't made any representation that the product is suitable for use in the territory it is being imported into and nor is Lik Sang an officially sanctioned Sony importer so how on earth could Sony be liable for their actions? Saying Sony is liable if someone buys a Japanese PS3 from an unofficial company and then electrocutes themselves is complete nonsense.
 
What would happen say if I go to Japan buy one in a shop and bring it back and electrocute myself, apart from the obvious pain it would cause are Sony liable :rotfl:
 
What do people expect? None of these companies are angels, they all have some history of giving UK consumers a raw deal. For years there were problems with sloppy PAL conversion, price fixing, games released 6-12 months later, inferior packaging... Whatever Sony's reasons, they are hardly different to anyone else. So may as well just boycott all of them.
 
Slam all you like...but this is the reality. Bib Bob, you haven't a clue what your talking about re the law and how it is applied. You might like to think what I say is ridicoulous and post to that effect, but you are quite wrong I am afraid.
Come back of the year!!! 'you are wrong, I am right'....

Ok, you say I'm wrong, it must be true.

You also say in your post that I can disagree or put an alternate point of view. I did. Did I personally abuse you in doing so? I disagreed, and said why.
Maybe, I should have resorted to 'you are wrong I am right ner ner ne-ner'?

That is what is MEANT TO HAPPEN! Deabate! It's forum! You can't simply come on here and say 'I AM RIGHT' and expect everyone to shut up. I don't work like dat fella.

Finally... in response to the line about 'if it was just sony products they could just stop', well not now they couldn't, as they were facing a barrage of law suits which would have bankrupted them had they attempted to contest them, so it was a pointless exercise, so they closed. They were in a no-win situation.
 
What would happen say if I go to Japan buy one in a shop and bring it back and electrocute myself, apart from the obvious pain it would cause are Sony liable :rotfl:


Well, according to ani, Sony would sue you, to protect you from yourself....it's a fact, apparently

But, come on, they only do it to for your own benefit.


:)
 
Well boo hoo to Lik-Sang. As someone else pointed out they didn't have to close down just 'cause one company sued them. They have 1000's of products (should that be 'had'!) and so this is just out of spite (unless they have foreseen the future lawsuits from Microsoft and Nintendo).

Also, how the hell can a company that releases details of customers into the public domain be trusted???
 
Well boo hoo to Lik-Sang. As someone else pointed out they didn't have to close down just 'cause one company sued them. They have 1000's of products (should that be 'had'!) and so this is just out of spite (unless they have foreseen the future lawsuits from Microsoft and Nintendo).

Also, how the hell can a company that releases details of customers into the public domain be trusted???

Your missing the whole point of it. Its not about Lik-Sang, its about Sony deciding that WE have no right to import there products at a cheaper price.
 
Your missing the whole point of it. Its not about Lik-Sang, its about Sony deciding that WE have no right to import there products at a cheaper price.

What cheaper price??? By the time you order a PSP and paid import duty (not the lucky ones where customs dont check) and postage you may as well have bought it in the UK.

You can import if you chose, just not through Lik-Sang - and any other stores than stop selling Sony products made for the Japanese market. It obviously remains to be seen what happens with ebay auctions for the PS3.
 
Come back of the year!!! 'you are wrong, I am right'....

Ok, you say I'm wrong, it must be true.

You also say in your post that I can disagree or put an alternate point of view. I did. Did I personally abuse you in doing so? I disagreed, and said why.
Maybe, I should have resorted to 'you are wrong I am right ner ner ne-ner'?

That is what is MEANT TO HAPPEN! Deabate! It's forum! You can't simply come on here and say 'I AM RIGHT' and expect everyone to shut up. I don't work like dat fella.



Finally... in response to the line about 'if it was just sony products they could just stop', well not now they couldn't, as they were facing a barrage of law suits which would have bankrupted them had they attempted to contest them, so it was a pointless exercise, so they closed. They were in a no-win situation.

In fear of another long post, that will flame [and bore], I wanted to put things on an even footing.

I have no quarrell with you, and really happy to debate the merits, correctness and accuracy of any of yours or my posts. At no time did I accuse of being personal or abusive [you're rather the exception on that one - Kube, as per usual thanks for the considered and thoughtful post yet again]

If however, you interpreted my post to be offensive, that was not the intention and apologise to you - sorry.

Now returning to who is right and wrong, well we are not going to agree on that I suppose. However, irrespective of what you or I think the weight of evidence is that indeed they were breaking the law [as cras, unfair as those laws might appear to be] and were found guilty.

Is it Sony's fault that they were found guilty? No! That dubious position remains with Lik-Sang and that is all that can be said on that matter. Is what Sony did justifiable? Only they can determine that, but, and this is where we fundementally disagree, I feel, in my view they had no choice. [For all the reasons I suggested in my post]. Not that materially matters, but I am the MD of a company that sells in Japan & Europe [approx £15M a year] amongst others, and I can tell you that most of the laws in these regions are "incredulous" and to you and me "insane" [insanely unfair more accurately!]. At any one time, somewhere in our "territories" someone is checking how our products arrived there, the price they were imported at, in the quantities that I stated, by the official channels that I have notified the authorities. Again, none of this proves I am right and you are free to disagree with me.

With regards to the "poor" Lik-Sang, you and most others suggests that this all started last week, and that Sony is the big guy using its money to somehow bully. Sony started proceedings many months ago. It is not the first time that Sony and many other companies [incl Microsoft] have threatened this action before, now is it? They had plenty of opportunity to stop before it ever got this far - they are where they are [or not, as the case now seems] because they continued to break the law.

Maybe, the myriad of other potential law-suits is some indication that a lot more companies beyond Sony were just as unhappy with Lik-Sang as they were.

I know we are not going to agree, and I have no problem with that. I am no Sony fan boy, but I truly believe this has nothing to do with the Big Guy / Little Guy as most on here would actually like it to be - because that seems to be particuarly vogue with regards to Sony at the moment.

To all others posting here, sorry for another long post - it will be my last [long :) ] one - I promise.
 
By the time you order a PSP and paid import duty (not the lucky ones where customs dont check) and postage you may as well have bought it in the UK.

You missed out the bit about waiting for 6-12 months to be able to 'legally' buy one in the UK.


ani4ani - apart from stating you are talking nonsense I haven't personally attacked you so please refrain from the petty insults.

To illustrate my point: - Company ABC in China produces a toaster that occasionally catches fire and burns peoples houses down, due to the absence of relevant safety laws in China (please note this is not a dig at the Chinese it is just a random manufacturing country used as an example) it is not illegal to sell this product there. Meanwhile Company XYZ in China decide to start exporting, for sale, the toaster to the UK where it is rightfully considered a deathtrap. Company ABC is completely unaware of, or unable to stop (due to financial reasons), these sales but, according to you, they are still somehow liable for any damages resulting from accidents occuring from their products use?
Or how about Colt in America make a pistol which is illegaly exported, by a third party, to the UK where someone is shot by it - does the victim have a claim against Colt for making a dangerous device?*

*I'm just being silly now but it's a bit of a silly arguement so I thought I might aswell.
 
Well boo hoo to Lik-Sang. As someone else pointed out they didn't have to close down just 'cause one company sued them. They have 1000's of products (should that be 'had'!) and so this is just out of spite (unless they have foreseen the future lawsuits from Microsoft and Nintendo).

Also, how the hell can a company that releases details of customers into the public domain be trusted???

i thought it was snidey of sony to hit them with multiple lawsuits. a tactic which was purely designed to shut lik-sang down since they were unable to afford to defend themselves.
 
You missed out the bit about waiting for 6-12 months to be able to 'legally' buy one in the UK.


ani4ani - apart from stating you are talking nonsense I haven't personally attacked you so please refrain from the petty insults.

To illustrate my point: - Company ABC in China produces a toaster that occasionally catches fire and burns peoples houses down, due to the absence of relevant safety laws in China (please note this is not a dig at the Chinese it is just a random manufacturing country used as an example) it is not illegal to sell this product there. Meanwhile Company XYZ in China decide to start exporting, for sale, the toaster to the UK where it is rightfully considered a deathtrap. Company ABC is completely unaware of, or unable to stop (due to financial reasons), these sales but, according to you, they are still somehow liable for any damages resulting from accidents occuring from their products use?
Or how about Colt in America make a pistol which is illegaly exported, by a third party, to the UK where someone is shot by it - does the victim have a claim against Colt for making a dangerous device?*

*I'm just being silly now but it's a bit of a silly arguement so I thought I might aswell.

I promised no more long posts - sorry.

Very good examples - but let's use your very good analogy to demonstrate my point. What if Company XYZ decided that they could never undertsand UK law, never afford to design a compliant toaster, but still really liked the idea of selling toasters in the UK? They could pretend to be unaware [and ignorant] of the laws. The could establish, should they wish unoffocial routes [Exporter ABC] to sell their deathtraps as there policy was to sell in the UK. Under your reasoning they would be nothing that anyone could do - those house fires were nothing to do with that poor Company XYZ - they didn't know the rules, or the laws, or indeed their toasters were even been sold in the UK?

So, in your case, who is answerable? According to your interpretation, it cannot be Company XYZ. So it must be Exporter ABC? Hmm, their defence would be, "we only sell these products, we have no idea what is compliant..you should talk to Company XYZ, they are the experts in making toasters" Company XYZ says " we had no idea they were ending up in the UK - they shouldn't, we only ship them to Exporter ABC for sale in China!"

You see the law doesn't allow for ignorance, it is no defence, and that is why the liability always remains with the manufactuer [In Europe at least], i.e. the company that made the faulty goods in the first place and/or saught to make a profit from making them.

I know this has nothing really to do with the Sony / Lik-Sang issue, but Strawdog's post is part of the reasoning [in my view that Sony had to take the action they did]. Of course, the real reason is that sony is protecting its position for financial reasons. If you see there press release today re PS3, they state that US allocated PS3's must not be exported to Europe "because they do not comply with European safety standards" True or not, the real reason or not, most US electrical goods do not comply with European standards.

Regarding the "Snidey" multiple law suits by Sony, it costs nothing to defend yourself if you are not guilty of an offence. I would hazard a guess that Lik-Sang went to a defence lawyer and was told "you can't win, because you are breaking the law, get out before you lose the lot" They probably decided [or were advised to] to cut their losses, rename, and do it all over again!

By the way, what are my petty insults. The only insults seem to be directed towards me!
 
Its just hit BBC News about the Sony Execs buying from Lik-Sang!

source here
 
They probably decided [or were advised to] to cut their losses, rename, and do it all over again!

I'm pretty sure this is what will happen, a bit like all the torrent, P2P and other file sharing sites they close down/sue...they just disband, rename then come back with a vengance. It will never be stopped.

Whilst theres a demand for cheaper, free or illegal products, there will always be a company ready to supply. ;)

It's all about the money and money is an evil mwhahahaha:devil:
 
Sony is a piece of s***, they have no right to do this

Instead of bullying retailers that are helping you to sell consoles, F*** off and look at your PS3 and how much of a mess your in!

SORRY FOR BAD LANGUAGE, BUT IM MAD
 
Sony is a piece of s***, they have no right to do this

Instead of bullying retailers that are helping you to sell consoles, F*** off and look at your PS3 and how much of a mess your in!

SORRY FOR BAD LANGUAGE, BUT IM MAD

Not only the PS3 but they've just had to recall millions (9.6) of laptop batteries that were, ironically, overheating with the possibility of blowing up:rotfl:



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/24/business/main2117358.shtml?source=RSSattr=Business_2117358

$673 million profit down 38%....gotta rcoup the losses somehow :rolleyes:

"Company officials said the problems were caused by microscopic metal particles that mistakenly got inside the battery, causing short-circuiting."

:rotfl: :D :)
(wonder if any of the components were bought from lik-sang:rotfl: )
 
Well boo hoo to Lik-Sang. As someone else pointed out they didn't have to close down just 'cause one company sued them. They have 1000's of products (should that be 'had'!) and so this is just out of spite (unless they have foreseen the future lawsuits from Microsoft and Nintendo).
This post is such rubbish. Lik-Sang don't have the money to defend themselves against the law suits so they have to close. It's obvious. Or do you think the owners/directors shut because they all wanted to throw their company away and be redundant after investing the huge amount of effort they have into growing their company? Utterly rediculous comments.

Everyone please keep your comments sensible.
 
This post is such rubbish. Lik-Sang don't have the money to defend themselves against the law suits so they have to close. It's obvious. Or do you think the owners/directors shut because they all wanted to throw their company away and be redundant after investing the huge amount of effort they have into growing their company? Utterly rediculous comments.

Everyone please keep your comments sensible.

Sorry but do you mind not quoting my post and picking on me when you say that! I thought moderators (and administrators) were meant to be impartial, there are plenty of other posts in this topic (and this forum) that are pretty petty and ridiculous but I am not going to name names.
 
Zoidy, the way I read it was that the first paragraph was referring to your post, the second was referring to 'other' posts generally.

IMO the first paragraph echos my own comments earlier. Lik-Sang didn't close because of one Sony law suit, they closed because they were faced with MANY, which they knew full well they would not ba able to defend aganist because they would not be able to afford to, so they closed the business as an act of self defence. If they HAD contested them, Sony would have won eventually, regardless of the rights and wrongs, because LS would have run out of money...
So they took the only option avaialble to them. Close now, and save some cash.
 
This post is such rubbish. Lik-Sang don't have the money to defend themselves against the law suits so they have to close. It's obvious. Or do you think the owners/directors shut because they all wanted to throw their company away and be redundant after investing the huge amount of effort they have into growing their company? Utterly rediculous comments.

Everyone please keep your comments sensible.

I am sorry, but this implies that Lik-Sang were some innocent bystander being bullied by some corporate monster. No one should need reminding that back in 2002 they were warned by a number of large corporations, including but not limited to Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony to stop exporting products to markets there were not destined for.

In January 2005, they were warned by Sony to stop the export of PSP units to Europe. I emphasise not sued, but warned. They continued despite these warnings until August 05 where they finally sued by Sony.

To suggest that they had no money to defend themselves is just not the case. They have spent 15 months in the courts defending themselves! Unfortunately [however you look at it, whatever side you sit on] they lost, i.e. they were found to be guilty. They now have to pay damages and costs. This is what has "bankrupted" them. Now, with regards to the myriad of other cases brought against them, in all likelyhood, they were told, either a/ there is no prospect of an appeal - this can only be granted if there a demonstratable error in the judgement, or b/ they were advised by their lawyers that there was little prospect of winning, because in fact they had already been tried in a court of law and lost - they were probably told pack up, rename and try again. They were probably told not to sell PSP's!
 

The latest video from AVForums

Is 4K Blu-ray Worth It?
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom