Question Lightroom export color space problems

Johnmcl7

Distinguished Member
Edit -Unfortunately I can't get the forum software to load most of the images, it seems to be tripping up on the URL and leaving a broken link in its place so I've had to put direct links instead.

I realise this is opening a massive can of worms but it's something that's frustrating me so I'm hoping it's worth asking. The problem I'm having is with a specific camera which is the Sony A9 and Lightroom 6.14 and on some photos the exported jpeg looks pretty hideous. I realise this is partially to be expected because the colour space in Lightroom is different to the export but it's not just the colours are a bit inaccurate, they just look wrong and I've never had this issue with many other cameras. I realise these images will look different on every device but I'm hoping these will show the difference, the bottom left image is the original Lightroom version, the lower right is the soft proofed version to sRGB and the one at the top is how the image looks in Windows Image Viewer with a much brighter fake tan like orange (I realise it's not sharp and there's noticeable motion blur* but it shows the colour issue well):

i-9Gx6dqR.png


Curiously when I upload the image to Smugmug, it loses the horrible vibrant orange colour even though it's the same image and looks fine:


But on my phone looking at the Smugmug image, it's the hideous orange, on my PC when I compare AdobeRGB and sRGB processed images they look the same in Windows Image Viewer (both bad), they look different in irfanview (srgb looks bad, AdobeRGB looks good) and they look the same on Smugmug (both good)

Straight out of camera:

This is the image with the default processing options in Lightroom:

Processed with a lens profile, sharpness and shadow/highlight adjustment but no contrast changes:

Fully processed setting contrast to medium, clarity/vibrance to +20 and using sRGB export:

Fully processed using AdobeRGB export:

I was originally thinking I had a setting wrong on the A9 that was clashing on export since it was the only camera I had issues with but I'm now wondering if it's the way I'm processing some of its photos and misusing Lightroom controls because others look fine in their exported jpeg form. Some of the A9 images look flat to me at default which I'm now wondering is why I'm hitting these problems, there were a couple of other images I took today and I also didn't like the exported versions so did them again with no contrast options which leaves them flat but no garish colours.

I guess ultimately my question is should I avoid certain settings to avoid the risk of the colours looking too garish and overprocessed and what options should I use to improve an image like this one? From what I can see I have to export to sRGB because that's the web standard, the camera is set to sRGB (which I assume is for its jpegs) and the raw mode is compressed.

* This was just the first in a comedy of errors and screw ups today.
 
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snerkler

Distinguished Member
Edit -Unfortunately I can't get the forum software to load most of the images, it seems to be tripping up on the URL and leaving a broken link in its place so I've had to put direct links instead.

I realise this is opening a massive can of worms but it's something that's frustrating me so I'm hoping it's worth asking. The problem I'm having is with a specific camera which is the Sony A9 and Lightroom 6.14 and on some photos the exported jpeg looks pretty hideous. I realise this is partially to be expected because the colour space in Lightroom is different to the export but it's not just the colours are a bit inaccurate, they just look wrong and I've never had this issue with many other cameras. I realise these images will look different on every device but I'm hoping these will show the difference, the bottom left image is the original Lightroom version, the lower right is the soft proofed version to sRGB and the one at the top is how the image looks in Windows Image Viewer with a much brighter fake tan like orange (I realise it's not sharp and there's noticeable motion blur* but it shows the colour issue well):

i-9Gx6dqR.png


Curiously when I upload the image to Smugmug, it loses the horrible vibrant orange colour even though it's the same image and looks fine:


But on my phone looking at the Smugmug image, it's the hideous orange, on my PC when I compare AdobeRGB and sRGB processed images they look the same in Windows Image Viewer (both bad), they look different in irfanview (srgb looks bad, AdobeRGB looks good) and they look the same on Smugmug (both good)

Straight out of camera:

This is the image with the default processing options in Lightroom:

Processed with a lens profile, sharpness and shadow/highlight adjustment but no contrast changes:

Fully processed setting contrast to medium, clarity/vibrance to +20 and using sRGB export:

Fully processed using AdobeRGB export:

I was originally thinking I had a setting wrong on the A9 that was clashing on export since it was the only camera I had issues with but I'm now wondering if it's the way I'm processing some of its photos and misusing Lightroom controls because others look fine in their exported jpeg form. Some of the A9 images look flat to me at default which I'm now wondering is why I'm hitting these problems, there were a couple of other images I took today and I also didn't like the exported versions so did them again with no contrast options which leaves them flat but no garish colours.

I guess ultimately my question is should I avoid certain settings to avoid the risk of the colours looking too garish and overprocessed and what options should I use to improve an image like this one? From what I can see I have to export to sRGB because that's the web standard, the camera is set to sRGB (which I assume is for its jpegs) and the raw mode is compressed.

* This was just the first in a comedy of errors and screw ups today.
Sounds very odd. My first thought is whether the A9 is fully supported in LR 6.14 or whether it's only supported in newer versions such as CC?

From your screenshot I can see the top image looks garish compared to the two bottom ones. As far as the linked images this is what I see

1.SOOC looks the best overall, although the train looks slightly underexposed.
2. Looks washed out and shadows raised too much
3 and 4 look nigh on identical, with shadows raised a bit too much for my taste making it start to look very slightly artificial/HDR.

None of them appear to have the colours of the bottom two images from the screenshots which have more of a yellowy-orange front rather than redy-orange front.

What are your export settings?

If you want to send me your original image and your develop settings I'm happy to try it on LRCC to see if you get different colours on export like you're getting?

I've had no such issues on my A7RIV or sample raws from the A9 I've tried.
 

Johnmcl7

Distinguished Member
I had the same thought about the A9 and being supported by Lightroom, officially it's one of the last Sony cameras (along with the A7RIII) but the fact you think the SOOC shot is the best (worryingly I thought it looked the worst) suggests it's a problem with the way I'm handling the files. The locomotive should be more of a yellow orange rather than a red orange.

I've uploaded the original file here:

The export settings are quite neutral and most options are unticked, for file settings I have it set to jpeg, srgb and 100 for the quality output.

You've said the image is underexposed and that I've lifted the shadows too much so what would you do, a smaller increase in the shadows?
 

snerkler

Distinguished Member
I had the same thought about the A9 and being supported by Lightroom, officially it's one of the last Sony cameras (along with the A7RIII) but the fact you think the SOOC shot is the best (worryingly I thought it looked the worst) suggests it's a problem with the way I'm handling the files. The locomotive should be more of a yellow orange rather than a red orange.

I've uploaded the original file here:

The export settings are quite neutral and most options are unticked, for file settings I have it set to jpeg, srgb and 100 for the quality output.

You've said the image is underexposed and that I've lifted the shadows too much so what would you do, a smaller increase in the shadows?
Just had a look at the raw on dropbox and that looks more red-orange than yellow-orange, similar to the jpeg and not like your 'proofs'. I know it might seem a daft question but you don't have print/soft proof turned on in the develop module all the time do you? I'm sure you're aware but the soft proof will try to replicate what the image will look like when printed, and will always look more muted. Here's an example, original raw L, proof copy R. The proof will always depend on the paper profile selected of course.

Screenshot 2020-08-11 at 13.52.40.png




In terms of export matching Lightroom it does for me, here's a rough and ready adjusted image, screenshot from Lightroom L, exported jpeg R
Screenshot 2020-08-11 at 14.01.05.png


You have a dust bunny by the way ;)
 

Johnmcl7

Distinguished Member
I haven't used the soft proofing option before and I had to enable it for above so I don't think it's been enabled before, honestly I'd be happy if it was a stupid mistake in the settings.

Thanks for having a go at processing the image, what settings did you use for it? I've looked at so many different copies and variations of this image I'm not sure what to think of it any more.

Good spot on the dust bunny and I've just given the sensor a clean.
 

snerkler

Distinguished Member
I haven't used the soft proofing option before and I had to enable it for above so I don't think it's been enabled before, honestly I'd be happy if it was a stupid mistake in the settings.

Thanks for having a go at processing the image, what settings did you use for it? I've looked at so many different copies and variations of this image I'm not sure what to think of it any more.

Good spot on the dust bunny and I've just given the sensor a clean.
No problem at all, happy to help. TBH I didn’t do much with the processing as it was more about making sure the colours matched on export. I just used the adobe colour profile, brushed in a bit of dehaze and decreased exp in the sky (hence why the dust bunny showed) and brushed in a tiny exp bump onto the front of the train. Oh, and I shifted the orange hue slightly towards yellow as that’s what you said the actual train looked like.

I normally use the Sony standard colour profile but I think the Adobe one worked better for the colour of this tbh.

As for your questions about shadow adjustments etc it’s all personal preference tbh. When I first started I liked to raise shadows and recover as much detail as possible but now I prefer more of a natural look. More often than not I increase exposure a bit rather than lift shadows, but again that’s just purely my taste. At the end of the day as long as ‘we’re’ happy with the end result it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks :smashin:

At least from all this you know that it’s something to do with the software side of things that’s causing exports to look different rather than the camera :smashin: It’s just a matter of now figuring out what’s going off with the software :facepalm:
 
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Johnmcl7

Distinguished Member
I think you're right about the shadow recovery being overdone but I'm at the point where I think wow look at all the detail then leave it there.

I can't hang onto Lightroom forever so it's maybe time to bite the bullet and change now.
 

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