Light Fusion (LF) 1st UK Spray Day

Kez.

Go ahead and try the Wall, but I suggest that if your going to try to abstain from using a Mirror, and garner the resulting savings, let me send you 4 bottles of the new Silver Metallic Acrylic Paint I've discovered. ($16.00 USD total) Combined with some Water based Acrylic Polyurathene Satin, it is making all my previous efforts obsolete.

You'll just have to get 1 quart pf MMud-SE from Gary, 1 additional quart of any Ultra Pure White Latex, 16 Oz of the Poly, 16 Oz more of Distilled Water, and 32 Oz of the new SM.

The stuff sprays on like water, so if your going to roll, use only a very low nap roller and do so by pre-rolling the roller several times onto the tray or a seperate paint board.

Lemme know. If we do this fast enough, and the results are as good as I know they will be, I'm sure the other Guys will want to alter the MMud accordingly.
 
maurice,

sounds interesting...

all i'd need to source over here would be some ultra pure white latex, and some water-based acrylic polyurathene satin? (plus distilled water)

managed to persuade SWMBO to let me paint the screen area, as an 8 foot mirror was a no-go. although originally she wanted me to paint the whole wall! :suicide: :rotfl:

will rollering straight onto the wall (which is flat / smooth) with the new mix give equal / better results than using a mirror with the original MMud-SE?

cheers, kez
 
Back at last!! :hiya:


I'm going to arrange another sprayday on my own if necessary, but if the others are interested, the exchange of ideas was beneficial to all

A new mix?? I just gotta try that!

What's the current sitrep MMan?
 
mikeaitch said:
Back at last!! :hiya:


I'm going to arrange another sprayday on my own if necessary, but if the others are interested, the exchange of ideas was beneficial to all

A new mix?? I just gotta try that!

What's the current sitrep MMan?


Sorry to hear bout your troubles guys! As I posted previously, apart from minor streaking (which I correctly with another light coat), mine worked out well.

However, I put the Goo System Painted MDF screen side by side and had some interesting observations:


LF Mirror screen
Better defined image (almost like it was higher resolution)
Better sense of depth (I have the Pioneer HDTV demo file, looks amazing)
Better colour reproduction
Appeared "flatter", even tho the mirror is not glued to the wall!
Generally more "Plasma" like, as MMan described

Goo Painted Screen (Grey Goo, painted over a year ago)
Better Contrast - blacks were noticably blacker



Its a shame because I really notice contrast almost before colour. It a manner its to be expected, the MMud screen is very white in colour while the Goo system is noticebly grey (to the point colours start to suffer). I largely blame this on my projector (Hitachi PJ TX100) which I would describe as "stupidly bright" at the cost of contrast.

Im looking to get a CC40 Red Filter (any tips?) for it to maybe put the brightness to use and get my blacks back, but overall my search for contrast continues..



Matt
 
Not a lot of time here but heres a short recap of my current efforts above.

Drastically improved Blacks are possible with the altering of the MMud mix to include a new Silver Metallic in much greater concentrations, as well as the addition of Acrylic Polyurethane Satin.

The new SM is an Art Supply Quality that exhibits a far less darker blending of Lamp Black, hence it's name "Radiant Silver" It's a inexpensive version @ $3.99 USD per 8 Oz.

I'm sure the Polyurethane is readily available.

To the existing MMud mix, you would do the following.

1 Quart MMud as mixed
1 Quart Ultra Pure White (latex)
24 to 36 Oz RS-Silver Metallic
16 Oz Distilled Water
16 Oz. Polyurethane Satin

Herin, this mix shall be refered to as;

RS-MMMaxxMudd :smashin:

A watery mix this is, so spraying must progress 3 times faster across the surface (distance remains the same) Especially in the case of a first coating, one must DUST the surface and let it dry before applying another coat lest you get horrific runs.

But a added bonus is that this mix covers a mirror very easily, and when drys feels smooth as glass with a very hard surface. Upon applying, it looks so glossy you will be in a state of disbelief that it will ever lose it's shine, but it most certainly does, to a perfectly "Flat" finish.

Black levels are greatly increased, as is ambient light viewing. HOW MUCH YOU ASK?

I was dunned into taking some comparison shots using a standard White Matte surface. Of course I said," Why should I bother? Nobody can post anything comparable anyway." But the hue and cry was deafening so I did so just before taking down that humongeous Mirror shown previously above.

The Following images were taken in HIGH ambient light!!!

These first photos are noy intended to show anything except the greatly increase level of Black over a White Matte surface (center) in ambient light

GenerallyDarker.jpg


BlackHatCommodore.jpg


82500f2c.jpg


This next shot shows what happens in normally dark conditions.

DeppinDarkness.jpg


A closer look at low resolution, to keep you all a'twitter.

DeppHead1.jpg



XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

And now for the Big News. :lesson:

The effort toward a DIY solution to the "Black Screen" developements in the industry has been realized through a collaboration between myself and two others.

:devil:

The idea of using specific Red-Blue-Green pigments in a special MMud mix was put forth. I calculated a certain formula (ie: guessed at it :rolleyes: ) and BINGO! The results are stupendous! But it is not to be devulged just yet, for this my Friends will be a commercially available mix that works almost as well on a Board or Wall as a mirror, sans the added effect a mirror lends to the equation.

Anybody who can keep it to themselves (...and agree to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement... :nono: ) can soon avail themselves of the chance to be among the first to try it out. I'll not suffer to have DIY'ers salivate needlessly, nor accuse me of blatent profiteering on their desire to have the best. But this effort is a "Spray Only" application, and the Mix is not cheap by any standard I have advocated before. 3 quarts will cost about $150.00 USD, primarily because of the specially formulated pigments than do not meld into a yucky "Brown" sludge, but instead retain thier individual properties.

I'll post up a new thread soon, after I can acquire the ingrediants in quantities that allow for it to be mixed at the above stated price point. That post will include pics of the mix in action, compared to what you have seen above. Those examples are the only thing that offers a valid comparison anyway.
:clap:

I'm excited, and all ya all should be as well.
 
maurice,

how do i go about getting 4 bottles of the new RS-SM mix?

and, by 'low nap', do you mean short pile roller?
 
MississippiMan said:
Anybody who can keep it to themselves (...and agree to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement... :nono: ) can soon avail themselves of the chance to be among the first to try it out.
I'm excited, and all ya all should be as well.

I'll be the gunea pig if it turns out as good as you say :smashin:

I've gotta respray anyway....i
 
kez said:
maurice,

how do i go about getting 4 bottles of the new RS-SM mix?

and, by 'low nap', do you mean short pile roller?


I can send them to you.

$4.00 ea. plus shipping

But guess what?


Here's the world first truly LARGE representation Of Black Flame Light Fusion.

What comes first? a Honkin' Big mirror.

140" diagonal

AMirrorAwaitin.jpg



A completed paint job

BFLFScreen140incher.jpg



From another angle;

BFLFScreen140incherleftview.jpg


Now this is cool. Under flash. Where's the Grey?

BFLFScreen140incherunderFlash.jpg


Please note how the Grey painted cardboard remains Grey.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm........, could it be?

HIGH AMBIENT LIGHT Screenies to follow tomorrow. Keep checkin' back.
 
mikeaitch said:
I'll be the gunea pig if it turns out as good as you say :smashin:

I've gotta respray anyway....i


I second that, really want to try out Black Flame!



Matt
 
MississippiMan said:
I can send them to you.

$4.00 ea. plus shipping

sounds good.

is it possible for you to mix up a batch of whatever i'd need to add to the original MMud (minus the distilled water) to save me trying to find it over here?

if i remember rightly, i have 3 quarts of MMud

let me know cost and payment details, etc :)
 
Yup.


Cost of the several different materials is reasonable, and the amount once mixed is less than 2 quarts including the 32 Oz of newest variety of Silver Metallic

A reasonable guess of the cost would be approx $35.00 to $45.00 USD at the very most, and being somewhat smaller a package and slightly lighter than the 3 gallon pail I recently sent winging over, I suspect the Frieght cost should not be so horrific.

I'm working with one "pb_Maxx" to improve the mix so as to make it perform every bit as well in Darkness as I've come to expect any LF screen to do, and still outperform the Black Screens in ambient light.

Patents are being considered, and once filed, some additional leeway will be afforded. I can ship a completed formulation of the 'secret ingrediants' to those who wish to try it. That's an incredible hodgepodge of 7 different substances, all measured exactingly in exceedinly small amounts.

I will NOT be using PayPal anymore for I keep receiving "many" emails I feel are trying to get me to devulge propritary info provided when I signed up, including CCard Pin #s and Account info THEY DO NOT NEED! Also, I've received statements about how there have been new Bank accounts added to my records. Now they won't let me log in unless I send them the requested info, nor even send them an Email requesting verification and explinationI think they and thier security is in disaray so any payments will have to be via Checks sent Express Letter.

I'll soon return with a new thread outlining several takes on the LF & Board Screen apps, and their respective coats.

Heres a sample. It's a bar setting with lots of light. A hand held photo of a image in motion, not "paused"

AMellowYellow.jpg


Better pics to follow...., I promise.
 
i wouldn't worry about the paypal spoof emails. you'd get them, even if you weren't a paypal member.

i get several similar emails from various banks, which i don't even bank with.

can i use paypal, this one time? :lease:

as for the mix, i'd just add it to the 3/4 gallon tub of MMud, and add distilled water (how much?)? (the mix you'll send will include the Polyurathene Satin, and Ultra Pure White Latex?)

Also, in a previous post, you mentioned i'd need a quart of the original MMud mix. I believe i have 1/4 of the mix sent to gary ( does that mean i have 3/4 gallon?) i'm not sure what a quart, or a gallon is :confused:

will i need to measure out a quart of what i have, and mix that with what you'll send? or just whack it all in?

i think i'm confusing myself, here :rotfl:
 
kez said:
i wouldn't worry about the paypal spoof emails. you'd get them, even if you weren't a paypal member.

i get several similar emails from various banks, which i don't even bank with.

Yeah Kezm but the actual Site, www.paypal.com will not let me log on unless I provide my Pin Numbers to my accounts. That was not required before so I'm worried that the info may be intercepted.

I'd rather tust someone like you with my bank account info and do a wire Transfer than risk getting wacked by someone with undue access to paypall records.

can i use paypal, this one time? :lease:

I'll make another attempt at logging on, and if I make it, enquire to the Site administrator as to "Was Sup wit all dat?" If i get a response that satisfys, we're good to go. If not....., all it takes is a 1st class post and a Cashier's Check.

as for the mix, i'd just add it to the 3/4 gallon tub of MMud, and add distilled water (how much?)? (the mix you'll send will include the Polyurathene Satin, and Ultra Pure White Latex?)

Everything In add that you can access in the UK will add to the volume and hence the shipping cost. Any Bright White "Acrylic -FLAT- Latex" paint will substitute for the UPW-Flat, and I'm almost positive a trip to the Srore will render you the "Water Based Acrylic Polyurethane -in/Satin Finish.

I can do ANYTHING, and you might be able to pay ANYTHING, but I'd prefer that we both do & pay as little as possible. Me do, and you pay.


Also, in a previous post, you mentioned i'd need a quart of the original MMud mix. I believe i have 1/4 of the mix sent to gary ( does that mean i have 3/4 gallon?) i'm not sure what a quart, or a gallon is :confused:

A "wet" US Quart = 0.945 Liters
A "wet" US Gallon = 3.785 Liters


will i need to measure out a quart of what i have, and mix that with what you'll send? or just whack it all in?

You will need between 1 to 1-1/2 Liters of the "White MMud" depending on just how much ambient light performance you want, and how bright your PJ is. I'm getting quite the Stable of variable Mixes (...applying for 7 different Patents soon!) and to assure the best results, this means matching up formulas with needs.

The RS-MMMaxxMud recently introduced into the 'common domain' as a freebee is about as close as a "Do it All" mix as I can come up with as a reccomendation. To that, just the addition of some more Silver Metallic can boost ambient light performance further to a point where most would be satisfied completely compared to anything else other than the Black Flame Mix.

The thing most important to take into account is that the more ambient light there is, and the more aggressively you attack that situation, the more necessity there is in having both lumens to spare, and the need to do some recalibration of your PJ.

I've tried just using Light Cannons (2000+ Lumen PJs) on Silvered up MMud mixes and although the end results are quite good ('Mo bedder dan most!) there is still not nearly the contrast and color "POP" that a dark environment achieves with a slightly silvered White MMud. You cannoy see such performance in the dark and fail to desire something at lest similar in the light. That has always been a dream state to live in however.

The current Black Screens achieve a very good ambient light performance ratio, but do so for a stating price point of $2600+ USD for 80" And they don't do anything to getcher YaYa's out in the dark. Sourcing a Mirror and using my paint only comes to approx $300.00 USD on average (Spray Equip. notwithstanding...) and if you follow my advice based on your specific needs, you will effectively match up to what you "Have" and not have to acquire anthing else, except perhaps a Calibration DVD


i think i'm confusing myself, here :rotfl:

Don't think you do not have good company. That's why I'm here. :lesson:

Kez, For you and other's benefit, I'll post a new thread stating the necessary criteria for adjuding just exactly what is needed to be considered when determining what paint mix is best. Let's try to always match up what is best for everyone's situation, lest some be pleased, while others cry "BS" and lament ever having gone to the expense and trouble. I feel that when using MMUd as a starting point. that virtually anybody's viewing experience can be vastly improved for if not less than anything else avaliable, at least for no more, and with more value for what is expended, in time and cash.

Also Kez, remember that you'll still have at least 1/2 your 3/4 Gallon mix left so you can still have something to fall back into, er....onto.:D
 
OK, PayPal seems to have gotten straightend out, at least for now that is.

:rolleyes:
 
ok, taking all that on board, how should i go about mixing everything for the following?

2.5m wide screen. light controlled room. panasonic pt-ae100 projector (700 ANSI lumens, 500:1 CR) ocassionaly, i get some light-seepage from the blackout curtains, so some ambient light causes a problem.

no mirror. flat wall. i can post pics of the setup, if it helps?

i currently have 3 quarts of the original MMud mix. i'll have a scout around for some white latex, and PU satin.

apologies for the continued questions :rolleyes:
 
Black Flame LF just got even better.

Ambient Light Performace simply trounces the Sony and Mirage offerings. They are not even to be compared.

And now....., Dark room performance is as good as it can ever hope to be.

We have started the Patent process.

And now I'm hated on AVS for not devulging the "secret".

Seems after all I've given, I a A_ _ Hole for considering this paint as "patentable" and daring to consider that I might make myself wealthy.

Anybody got a Flat to rent?


OptimaH79-1.jpg



Come and get it. You can have it for cost. few on AVS will see it for that, except the ones that still have faith in me.
 
That looks excellent, what Proj were using for that pic??

You are always going to get some people that are jealous of any person's success. I wish you all the success in the world for all your hard work on this project. :smashin:

Do you have any estimated costs to get adequate mixture to the UK for a 92" screen.

Cheers

Ricky
 
The PJ is a Optima H79

Screen is a 110" diagonal (96" x 54") RS-MMMaxxMud Light Fusion

Light Controlled environment.

Details of this mix is free for the asking. Please do.

Cost to get the mix, including shipping, would be about $130.00 USD. (estimated: I need a "Ship To address to be completely certain.)

Less than Goo by about $50.00 USD, you get more to work with, and it is "Mo Bedder". Completely "tweekable" to you situation.

Even works well withouth the Mirror if you want to forgo the "Gap" effect.
 
MississippiMan said:
And now....., Dark room performance is as good as it can ever hope to be.

As good as the RS-MMMaxx ? lovely screenshot!
 
I'm sorry. I didn't make that clear. It's a RS-MMMaxx screen. My comments were confusing I guess, but so much is as of late.

But I did state that the mix for that screen was available and the contents 'devulgable' so that should have ruled out it being a BFLF screen.

Sorry again for the confusion.

.............and the name is MMan! :smashin:

MMud? :confused: Well Ok, un some places these days, my name is exactly that...........:rotfl:
 
Well, MMan, whats the deal with Black Flame? What is it, how much ($) any pictures?


Matt
 
The mix pertaining to the Black Flame has been filed for a Patent, (...or the process has been started, at least... :boring: )

It is the most singulary spectacular, low tech development in Front/Rear screen paint applications ever. That it allows
virtually unlimited HIGH Ambient light veiwability is something that will erase know values as we adjudge the today.
We continue to work towards perfecting the tint ratio so as to 'lighten up' the image with as low as lumen output PJs as we can.

The trend in new machines is going toward brighter PJ output, but there are so very many out there with recently purchased equipment under 1000 lumens, and what with so much gear about to be slashed in price, there will be thousands of eager bargain hunters buying even more of the outdated stuff.

So we don't want to deny them the opportunity of getting something special, or the ability to please the Wife by keeping the lights on, a bit, or a lot. :cool:

BFLF as a Mix will be very reasonably priced. Less than Goo, DIY Screens, LiquidScreen, any of 'em. It's cost approx $120.00 USD for 1/2 US Gallon..., enough to share with a friend, as befitting DIY projects. :smashin:

As a Completed Mfg Screen, there will be at least 4 versions. 2nd Surface Mirrored LF, 1st Surface Mirrored LF, a Rolldown Mylar LF (....you heard it first here!!! :eek: ) and a Non Reflective Backed Fixed Vinyl screen.

In about 3 weeks I can start dispensing working samples about publicly, after the Patent Application has been accepted. As for now, it's a judgement call, and no small risk considering the vast market, and the "Mfg. Black Screen Killer" considerations. Temptation to steal another's idea and profit from it is a terrible lure. But I'll not let paranoia keep me from returning what I see as a favor back toward the DIY community.:nono:

Until then, I have some completed efforts that come as close to the same results as anything else can possibly do without divulging "the Secret". Soon I'll be back up and posting screenies that will illustrate actual Test patterns and valid comparisons, but that must be tempered with prudence lest my postings take on a decidedly 'promotional' bent. Even so, those results will come from something you can cobble together, or ask for specific components to be sent to combine with locally available materials.
:clap:
 
So how soon can I buy some BFLF off you!?

How well or not will it go on over a completed LF (standard Mirror Acrylic) screen?


Matt
 
The "Mix" works very well as a "Stand Alone" when applied over a Bright White undercoat. So applying it over a finished LF Mirror screen will certainly work.

But why do so? You can easily remove the existing coating with De-natured Alcohol, a sponge, and a Windshied Squeege w/ Rubber Edge.

Then with BFLF over the actual mirror surface, your in "Business"!!!

I'll be shipping out "Working Samples within 2 weeks, maybe sooner.

MMan
 

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