Light control: What is most important?

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
Is the Gliss motoroised? How much does it cost? It looks amazing. Not sure if I should wait until the extension to it in place tho if its pricey as I'll end up having to do it twice.!
No, not motorised: I did fit a motorised rail at first, before I made the white underside panels that the Gliss is mounted on. However that track was quite bulky and I didn't want it on show. I use them on the main house curtains as the tracks are hidden inside the pelmet/underside covers I built. They're less obvious unless you look up inside as you can see in this picture:

Left side.JPG


Mark's idea of spraying the tracks to blend them in is good too, if it better matches your ceiling. In my case the ceiling cover has a section that hangs down and goes in front of the white bit of track/top of the side curtains. Less for contrast reasons, but more to make it less distracting/more immersive.

My sides are 3 metres deep, partly just because I could, but also to hide the white radiator and white of the door frame. You'll find that once you cover some bits, then something else might catch your eye. It does reach a point of diminishing returns, especially for a living room, but if I had a fully dedicated space I know I'd want to go black everywhere. :)
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
No, not motorised: I did fit a motorised rail at first, before I made the white underside panels that the Gliss is mounted on. However that track was quite bulky and I didn't want it on show. I use them on the main house curtains as the tracks are hidden inside the pelmet/underside covers I built. They're less obvious unless you look up inside as you can see in this picture:

View attachment 1423328

Mark's idea of spraying the tracks to blend them in is good too, if it better matches your ceiling. In my case the ceiling cover has a section that hangs down and goes in front of the white bit of track/top of the side curtains. Less for contrast reasons, but more to make it less distracting/more immersive.

My sides are 3 metres deep, partly just because I could, but also to hide the white radiator and white of the door frame. You'll find that once you cover some bits, then something else might catch your eye. It does reach a point of diminishing returns, especially for a living room, but if I had a fully dedicated space I know I'd want to go black everywhere. :)


Sweet. I think I'll go with manual if its cheap for now and then decide on whether I go all-out with motorised later on.

Is non-motorised pretty cheap?


Looks like it'd be pretty expensive to cover 3-5metres with those. Not sure its worth it TBH.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
Is non-motorised pretty cheap?

This link looks very much the same as mine (might even have bought them from this place, but it was too long ago to remember). I just put in my spec for 300cm and roller gliders and it came out as £135 each track. Sounds about right for what I paid I think. Mine has a little cover on the end to finish it off as the outer ends are visible from my seat.

 

pRot3us

Distinguished Member
I followed @KelvinS1965's lead a number of years back in his Bat Tent days and hang some black material across the room behind me when the room is in cinema mode. It's true that the material surrounding the screen and coming out from it help immersion but depending on wall colour a lot of light can be thrown back onto the screen from the back wall. Just before I did this myself I remember turning round during a bright scene and thinking Blood Hell! that's a lot of light being reflected back.

A useful test is to stand in the room at the screen in the dark with a torch and shine it back around the room to see what the screen sees, this will quickly highlight (no pun intended) any reflection problems.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
Haha, I remember the 'Bat tent' days. It was cheap and pretty effective though, came out about 2 metres from the screen on the sides and top. I did some ANSI contrast measurements at the time and it went from something like 75:1 up to over 200:1 with the 'tent', a dark throw put over the light coloured sofa nearest the screen (not the one we sat on during a film) and a large dark brown rug on the floor under the screen up to our feet.

I did try hanging another piece of material across the back of the room, sagging down so that the projector could beam above it. In this case I couldn't really measure or see a difference, but the back wall is 6.5 metres from the screen, so maybe the distance helped?
 

Ringnut

Distinguished Member
I did some ANSI contrast measurements at the time and it went from something like 75:1 up to over 200:1 with the 'tent', a dark throw put over the light coloured sofa nearest the screen (not the one we sat on during a film) and a large dark brown rug on the floor under the screen up to our feet.

That's similar to what I have done only using a large piece of black carpet instead of a rug for the floor.

On bright scenes the difference is very noticeable...

BC1.jpg


BC2.jpg


...on normal content less so.

BC3.jpg


BC4.jpg


Fortunately I don't have to worry about the side walls as they are a little over 1.5mtrs away but the ceiling is still an issue. However given the 60cm drop to the top of the screen, when viewing from one screen width back the ceiling isn't within one's field of view - although I realise that it is not ideal for full ANSI contrast. Painting the ceiling black or dark brown wasn't an option I was told. :D
 
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pRot3us

Distinguished Member
Haha, I remember the 'Bat tent' days. It was cheap and pretty effective though, came out about 2 metres from the screen on the sides and top. I did some ANSI contrast measurements at the time and it went from something like 75:1 up to over 200:1 with the 'tent', a dark throw put over the light coloured sofa nearest the screen (not the one we sat on during a film) and a large dark brown rug on the floor under the screen up to our feet.

I did try hanging another piece of material across the back of the room, sagging down so that the projector could beam above it. In this case I couldn't really measure or see a difference, but the back wall is 6.5 metres from the screen, so maybe the distance helped?
Yeah, I think distance to and colour of the rear wall are big factors, I've not taken any measurements but it certainly helps in my setup. I do think the torch test is worth doing in anyone's setup, up to full velvet batcave even if it's just so people can rage against the nap of the material. :laugh:
That's similar to what I have done only using black carpet instead for the floor.

On bright scenes the difference is very noticeable...

View attachment 1423545

View attachment 1423546

...on normal content less so.

View attachment 1423547

View attachment 1423548

Fortunately I don't have to worry about the side walls as they are a little over 1.5mtrs away but the ceiling is still an issue. However given the 60cm drop to the top of the screen, when viewing from one screen width back the ceiling isn't within one's field of view - although I realise that it is not ideal for full ANSI contrast. Painting the ceiling black or dark brown wasn't an option I was told. :D
Nice images, they illustrate what improvements even simple measures (well rug(s), changing carpet is obviously more involved) can bring. :smashin:
 

Ringnut

Distinguished Member
changing carpet is obviously more involved

I haven't changed it, I've just temporarily put down some black carpeting over the top when actually watching, rather than a rug. I couldn't find a rug large enough. :)
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
That's similar to what I have done only using a large piece of black carpet instead of a rug for the floor.

On bright scenes the difference is very noticeable...

View attachment 1423545

View attachment 1423546

...on normal content less so.

View attachment 1423547

View attachment 1423548

Fortunately I don't have to worry about the side walls as they are a little over 1.5mtrs away but the ceiling is still an issue. However given the 60cm drop to the top of the screen, when viewing from one screen width back the ceiling isn't within one's field of view - although I realise that it is not ideal for full ANSI contrast. Painting the ceiling black or dark brown wasn't an option I was told. :D

What's most noticeable from either image is with the black carpet how your eyes are drawn to the image more, without the carpet you also notice to pattern on the carpet below and its a distraction. That's the biggest thing I noticed when I added the rest of the velour to the walls etc, not that the image improved (well not that I noticed) but how all other distractions disappeared and all I now saw with the movie.

Now add the same black to your ceiling and imagine how it would also improve it, to say it was a revelation would be selling it short.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
I put a wide piece of Devore from the bottom of my screen to overlap on top of the edge of my dark brown rug. The brown rug looks pretty black as the exposed bit is about 2 metres back from the screen. As @Luminated67 says above it helps from a distraction point of view.

I did some 'step by step' photos on another thread showing my room with the same picture on screen, while adding the different Devore bits and pieces (on my build thread too in more detail), but this one was taken during daytime with curtains behind open to help with the photo:

MLP view.jpg


That tiny section of Oak floor on the right is visible during a film, but far enough out of eye line not to bother me. The thin cotton material on the coffee table works well too (I think it's left over 'bat tent' material :D ), but my wife has a habit of putting white table mats out for our in film wine. :rolleyes::D

When the lights are out, you don't tend to notice the join between Devore and brown rug (compare to the same shot further back without any Devore):
Lucy Full Devore.jpg
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
This is really encouraging. So I could velvet the room for the first 6 feet from the projector screen and the rest of the room be more of a matte black, some wood and generally a bit more relaxed in decor and still maximise PQ?
Well you need to avoid words like 'maximise', because if we split hairs then you need the back of the room done in a black material too to get the maximum, but doing as you suggest would do to make it great.

I think you get the room working, and then different options for the middle/rear before committing. Only you will know how far to take it.
 

sim12

Well-known Member
Best I've achieved is a temporary bat tent for movie night takes about 10 mins to put up but that's with a fixed screen mounted(which is hidden away in another room when not in use) but the difference is huge as already mentioned in this thread but well worth the effort, failing that even just have a full MVELL back wall for less important pj viewing also makes a big difference, perceived contrast un all.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Best I've achieved is a temporary bat tent for movie night takes about 10 mins to put up but that's with a fixed screen mounted(which is hidden away in another room when not in use) but the difference is huge as already mentioned in this thread but well worth the effort, failing that even just have a full MVELL back wall for less important pj viewing also makes a big difference, perceived contrast un all.


Thanks guys.

When I move in, I'll post a photo of the temporary cinema room. Once building work is done, I should have a 4.3-4.5ish to 7-8M room, but assuming building work is taking 7 months (including planning permission), I don't think I can be without a decent temporary room.


This one is going to be a challenge as until I do building work, the second room (which WILL become the cinema room) is connected to the kitchen with no door... and backs onto an open 'sun room' which sadly lets in some light too.

Any solutions to this?

I'm thinking just MVEL curtain that extends the whole length of the room or something?
Not sure where to situate the ALR screen either...



My other option is to use the master bedroom which is I think 5mx4m and put the cinema room upstairs there.. but I don't really like the idea of having to watch all my crap upstairs, especially if guests come and I want to show off the PJ & Sound and enjoy a film.

I'm just struggling to think how I can make this temporary room look ok.. without it looking mega naff... but still have good PQ.

I wish the house had a freaking door from the kitchen to the god damn second lounge lol.. after extension that will change as i'm going to make the second room come off of an extended hall way.
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
This is really encouraging. So I could velvet the room for the first 6 feet from the projector screen and the rest of the room be more of a matte black, some wood and generally a bit more relaxed in decor and still maximise PQ?

I think 8ft is worthwhile, the measurements I made where from any part of the screen, 6ft will get you something like 80% then 8 ft 90%, bat cave 100%, if I have an image that is shadow on one side and very bright on the other I can see the wall on the bright side glow a little more than I would like. The torch test is the answer. Stand with your back to the screen in a pitch black room and using a pencil beam torch, shrouded so very little light bleed around the beam. Then point the torch away from the screen and see how much light falls on the screen. You’ll soon discover how critical light control is. This is a great test for finding troubling spots and seeing if going further into the room is worth it.
 
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Topmetom 2

Distinguished Member
Question...when i unwrapped it and held it up it looked pretty see through...would putting it in front of the speakers reduce sound quality? Im thinking two L shaped runs of gliss behind the pj screen then coming out into the room, ceiling mounted?
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
Question...when i unwrapped it and held it up it looked pretty see through...would putting it in front of the speakers reduce sound quality? Im thinking two L shaped runs of gliss behind the pj screen then coming out into the room, ceiling mounted?

Short answer - yes and no.

Depends how close to the speakers you are planning on putting it, if you have a slight gap, you won’t really notice and your eq should sort it out.

If putting it directly against the grill, you’ll get a significant drop in db over 500hz throughout the whole frequency range.

I cover my wide speakers with my curtains, the frequency response looks virtually identical to two pairs of my Atmos speakers (which are the same speaker and uncovered), however, my front Atmos speakers are covered directly on the grill, this response is a fair bit down - as it’s Atmos and only the front pair of 3, I can’t audibly hear it so it doesn’t bother me.
 

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