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LG C8 upgrade to A9G worth it?

sebna

Member
Why do you say that seeing as this forum and many others state that the C9 is very accurate out of the box?
Please elaborate , or do you own a C9 :)
Where to start. What you are comparing is which factory calibration you prefer better not which TV has better PQ. Not even which of them is more trutful to the master in out of the box state as you have no means to asses it.

Also to follow on what you have just wrote. If what you have wrote is true in terms that C9 is very accurate out of the box then it must imply that Panasonic is not as otherwise they should be extremely close... and yet you prefer one over the other.

Anyway. When you calibrate them they are indistinguishable in terms of PQ or beyond extremely close to it. Try it...
 

DJJez

Active Member
Where to start. What you are comparing is which factory calibration you prefer better not which TV has better PQ. Not even which of them is more trutful to the master in out of the box state as you have no means to asses it.

Also to follow on what you have just wrote. If what you have wrote is true in terms that C9 is very accurate out of the box then it must imply that Panasonic is not as otherwise they should be extremely close... and yet you prefer one over the other.

Anyway. When you calibrate them they are indistinguishable in terms of PQ or beyond extremely close to it. Try it...
No amount of calibrating is gonna give you sonys superior upscaling or motion so no they arent gonna look the same lol
 

wezzywebb

Distinguished Member
Where to start. What you are comparing is which factory calibration you prefer better not which TV has better PQ. Not even which of them is more trutful to the master in out of the box state as you have no means to asses it.

Also to follow on what you have just wrote. If what you have wrote is true in terms that C9 is very accurate out of the box then it must imply that Panasonic is not as otherwise they should be extremely close... and yet you prefer one over the other.

Anyway. When you calibrate them they are indistinguishable in terms of PQ or beyond extremely close to it. Try it...
Calibration does nothing to improve motion ,upscaling , colour volume etc , throw in Sony,s Smooth Graduation that knocks socks off LG,s equivalent ,then its easy to see why I do prefer the Sony .
Not everyone can either A ,afford a calibration , B, feel the need for one ,C actually like the results , I have had a calibration done in the past on a ZT 65 purely to correct the green tint it had , I don't feel the need to get any of the sets I own calibrated , like I said the LG is very accurate out of the box , it has the best uniformity of any Oled I've ever owned , yet the Sony AF9 looks better in the majority of content I view .

Calibrating them both will not change that due to the inherent processing capabilities of the Sony over the LG , they are both great sets on there own , but having owned way too many LG Oleds over the past few years , and admittedly cast doubt previously when Sony owners had said how much better they performed , I am now a convert :)
,
 
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sebna

Member
Ambient lighting reduces eye stain and the lights are set at the same white point as the tv
Yes but you are negating perfect blacks of OLED by having them. If I would alway be watching with back light I would buy 85 inch QLED TV as the benefits of OLED are mostly masked by backlight.
 

woppy101

Distinguished Member
Yes but you are negating perfect blacks of OLED by having them. If I would alway be watching with back light I would buy 85 inch QLED TV as the benefits of OLED are mostly masked by backlight.
No thanks, bad scaling, blooming and shocking DSE I would rather sh*t in my hands and clap than own a lcd tv
 

thedoswells

Well-known Member
Yes but you are negating perfect blacks of OLED by having them. If I would alway be watching with back light I would buy 85 inch QLED TV as the benefits of OLED are mostly masked by backlight.
are you talking about ambient lighting or bias lighting?
proper d65 white point bias lighting will reduce eye strain and actually help with contrast etc on an oled. The best professional calibrators will tell you that you should always have some bias lighting on even in the darkest viewing conditions...
 

woppy101

Distinguished Member
are you talking about ambient lighting or bias lighting?
proper d65 white point bias lighting will reduce eye strain and actually help with contrast etc on an oled. The best professional calibrators will tell you that you should always have some bias lighting on even in the darkest viewing conditions...
Which is where my bias lights are set to, they match my TVs white point and brightness
 

sebna

Member
Guys, what I ma trying to say is that by having bias lights behind the TV set to D65 etc. (I also have them and also have two OLED TVs) the blacks are the same on OLED and QLED and most of great LCDs even. The bias light will make LCD / QLED black to be perceived as black as OLEDs. That is matter of how our eyes work.

I am not interested in buying QLED. I am in love with my OLEDs but if I would be only watching with bias light I would rather get bigger 85 QLED and be done with it as the blacks which are worse then OLEDs would not matter any more.

Just turn off bias light on quality BD / UHD material (in pitch black room) and make your own mind.

Cheers
 

thedoswells

Well-known Member
Guys, what I ma trying to say is that by having bias lights behind the TV set to D65 etc. (I also have them and also have two OLED TVs) the blacks are the same on OLED and QLED and most of great LCDs even. The bias light will make LCD / QLED black to be perceived as black as OLEDs. That is matter of how our eyes work.

I am not interested in buying QLED. I am in love with my OLEDs but if I would be only watching with bias light I would rather get bigger 85 QLED and be done with it as the blacks which are worse then OLEDs would not matter any more.

Just turn off bias light on quality BD / UHD material (in pitch black room) and make your own mind.

Cheers
Ah I understand now. Sorry I misunderstood you. I hadn't realised that bias lighting on an LCD like a qled was so effective, since I don't own one. In which case, great, and I can understand preferring a larger LCD if you have the room. Unfortunately at the moment 55" is my max but I'm very happy with my panny oled...
 

Aeriya

Standard Member
I had the 77 inch C9 and A9G side by side for a week. Took hundreds of photos and some videos. Tested every resolution, setting, test video I could in that time. There is no noticeable difference in PQ, upscaling motion on any content. Every time I noticed a difference, and there were a number of heart stopping moments where I thought I had found a real repeatable inferiority between the sets, every time the settings could be changed to make them look the same. Side by side, real time A/B comparison, no difference.

Given the LG cost 20% less, same PQ, has a vastly superior remote control, 175+ included TV channels, better tuner, it is the clear choice.
Other benefits, purchased through Costco it has a 5yr warranty, has Disney+ for a year free.

I only watch movies in the dark. PQ is really all that matters. Go with the C9.

I am no LG fan and have only used Sony professionally and at home for over 30 years. I built some of the first MPEG-2 broadcast quality encoders in the mid 90's and spent countless hours chasing and fixing video artifacts in those systems.

Having said all that, if PQ is your #1 concern, between the 2 manufacturers the most important thing is to make sure they didn't send you a defective OLED panel. Test it and do not hesitate to send back until you get a good one.

TV history:
1996 35 inch Sony Trinitron
2006 Sony KDS-60A2000
2020 Sony 77 A9G (sent back)
2020 LG 77C9
 

sebna

Member
... the most important thing is to make sure they didn't send you a defective OLED panel. Test it and do not hesitate to send back until you get a good one.
...
What do you mean by defective panel?

Thanks
 

Aeriya

Standard Member
What do you mean by defective panel?

Thanks
Here are some side by side screen shots showing what to me is a "defective" panel. When you can see luminance discontinuities in actual program material then it is defective. Here are 5% and 10% grey, 5% arguably the worst case. All OLEDS will show this vertical striping at some level. Notice the left screen how the change from lighter to darker occurs more frequently, in smaller bands with sharper transitions. What makes this visible in normal content is that sharp change from lighter to darker and then back. The smoother change on the right screen cannot be seen in normal content, I have given up trying to see it and now just immensely enjoy having a good set :)

At 10% the right screen only has very smooth vertical banding whereas the left screen retains the sharp vertical bands + horizontal bands + darker areas in the lower right and lower left corners. Understand the photos do not capture the defect nearly as well as the naked eye, it is far worse than it looks here.

3rd shot is the Sony "screen saver". As far as I could find, the Sony does not have a screen saver that is appropriate for burn in susceptible OLED's. In any case if you have the Sony you can test that image for artifacts. As a side comparison the LG screen saver is a dynamic burst pattern where 95% of the screen is black at any time and the burst moves to a different location - NO chance of burn in.

Last shot is an example of real world content showing the defect. There is a clear vertical line in the middle of the face.

5_Percent_AB.jpg
10_Percent_AB.jpg
Sony_Screen_Saver.jpg
XBR-77AG9_2.jpg
 

sebna

Member
Here are some side by side screen shots showing what to me is a "defective" panel. When you can see luminance discontinuities in actual program material then it is defective. Here are 5% and 10% grey, 5% arguably the worst case. All OLEDS will show this vertical striping at some level. Notice the left screen how the change from lighter to darker occurs more frequently, in smaller bands with sharper transitions. What makes this visible in normal content is that sharp change from lighter to darker and then back. The smoother change on the right screen cannot be seen in normal content, I have given up trying to see it and now just immensely enjoy having a good set :)

At 10% the right screen only has very smooth vertical banding whereas the left screen retains the sharp vertical bands + horizontal bands + darker areas in the lower right and lower left corners. Understand the photos do not capture the defect nearly as well as the naked eye, it is far worse than it looks here.

3rd shot is the Sony "screen saver". As far as I could find, the Sony does not have a screen saver that is appropriate for burn in susceptible OLED's. In any case if you have the Sony you can test that image for artifacts. As a side comparison the LG screen saver is a dynamic burst pattern where 95% of the screen is black at any time and the burst moves to a different location - NO chance of burn in.

Last shot is an example of real world content showing the defect. There is a clear vertical line in the middle of the face.

View attachment 1258499View attachment 1258500View attachment 1258501View attachment 1258502
Ahh yes. The famous banding. There is one thing that many people do not realize about OLED banding and panel uniformity. It changes over time. It gets less prominent with hours clocked on the panel. So minor to medium is not a big problem IMHO. The left screen is one of the worst I have seen tough and it truly is a bad apple. But what you see on the face with time would be less visible to possibly not visible at all. Still I think it qualifies for replacement / return as it is one of the worst if not the worst I have ever seen.

My C6 65" which I still use and adore was in lower tier of medium banding (a better one of medium banding examples). In some real life materials at some occasions it has been noticeable. For first 100 - 300h. After that both slides have improved and the banding was not noticeable anymore in real life content. I could not been bothered to replace it even tough I exactly knew what I had (and in the end there was no need for it - BTW ohh the glorious OLED 3D! - funny thing is that the pinacle of OLED TV was series 6 when they still had 3D).

I have not looked at slides yet on my new C9 65" and I do not think I will at all as I cannot be bothered with replacing it anyway especially that I know it will improve with time if there are any real life problems with it.

I think I am getting old.

After all I have to have a reason to get another one in few years time :)
 

chiro81

Standard Member
I have a 75Z9D in a basement where light is not coming in so can be dark easily.
Is anybody in the position as I am where they are contiplating a 77 oled replacement? Or has anyone done it?

the 75Z9D is very very good for an LED and the OLED would for sure have a bit better blacks but only a 2 inch size upgrade and a HUGE cost for maybe a small PQ improvement...

any thoughts?
 

sebna

Member
I have a 75Z9D in a basement where light is not coming in so can be dark easily.
Is anybody in the position as I am where they are contiplating a 77 oled replacement? Or has anyone done it?

the 75Z9D is very very good for an LED and the OLED would for sure have a bit better blacks but only a 2 inch size upgrade and a HUGE cost for maybe a small PQ improvement...

any thoughts?
Is it worth it (money wise) is the question only you can answer knowing your financial situation but in terms of PQ difference in pitch black room you will be blown away after you watch enough material and you realize how life like it is in terms of light and blackness reproduction. It is totally worth it from that perspective (what I am trying to say is that it will of course blow you away straight away but only with time the realization will come how amazing it actually is and that you would not be able to go back)

No haloing, "perfect" uniformity, perfect black and most importantly the infinite contrast that comes with it and without any artifacts. All of this is a match made in haven for pitch black room.

If you have that kind of patience, waiting 2-3 years and buying then 88" Oled @The price of current 77" would tick all the boxes... but who has that kind of patience? I know I don't :D

Probably best would be finding someone on the forum willing to show you 77" Oled in all it glory :)

At least this is how I see it.
 
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