LG C8 Lip Sync Issues

devoker

Standard Member
Well, the service engineer came out and I demonstrated it doing it on live TV and YouTube (Fully Charged Show :)). He took one look and said "It's the main board. Seen it loads of times. Knew what it was as soon as you said the sound and video are out."

So they will replace the main board sometime over the next week or two. Optimistic? No. But happy for them to give it a try seeing as he clearly knew it was a known problem. I shall keep you posted...
Waiting for an update after the board change.

After a lot of attempts I found an acceptable solution. By using arc digital output set to auto, truemotion set 0/0 an lipsync in service menu -3, it is almost spot on for all apps except youtube, it is even better than internal speakers. another alternative is auto, real cinema on truemotion off lipsync 0. Result is very similar.
Only problem is that selecting auto instead of passthrough makes sound quality worse and dts audio is limited to 2 channels.
 
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rgledhill

Member
Strange combination - do you mean PCM instead of Auto? Normally PCM improves the situation and Auto, which allows things like Atmos through, can make it worse.
I refuse to turn Trumotion off because I like the smooth effect of the video (much more like real life rather than flickery "oh it used to be like that in the cinema so it must be right") and given that the TV is advertised as having this feature, it should be able to use it properly...
We shall see what happens when the board is changed sometime over the coming couple of weeks...

Did I see that you need a paid-for app and some kind of IR interface to access the service menu?
 

devoker

Standard Member
I hate PCM sound everything is stereo and muffled and no atmos. I used to select passthrough as I thought it would sent the audio without decoding but it adds more delay somehow.
Auto might have lip sync problems sometimes but when I switch it to passthrough back and fort resolves it. I still have no idea whyinternal speakers are worse than arc auto.
 

Clem_Dye

Distinguished Member
The fact that we need to adjust TrueMotion settings suggests that this is a more complex issue that just tweaking lip sync. Perhaps that's why LG is fighting shy when it comes to a fix.

Clem
 

rgledhill

Member
Maybe, but even with all of those things disabled it fundamentally doesn't do consistent lip-sync even to the internal speakers. To an external speaker it's just all over the place. Basically they just messed up the video/audio stream decoding implementation.
 

devoker

Standard Member
I think so. However when the technician came to see the issue for my tv, he said they were not reported any similar issue before. But he also didn't notice the lipsync issue until I show him the slowmotion videos, I guess most people doesn't notice it.
 

google

Distinguished Member
I think so. However when the technician came to see the issue for my tv, he said they were not reported any similar issue before. But he also didn't notice the lipsync issue until I show him the slowmotion videos, I guess most people doesn't notice it.
Or could it be that most people don't have lip sync issues?
 

devoker

Standard Member
It depends how you classify lip sync issues maybe?
My wife had no idea about that still thinks it is not that bad, a friend of mine only noticed it after I tell about him, another friend still think my TV is ok, but it is giving me creeps when lips don't match audio. But I am sure audio lags behind video at least 100 ms. Our brain tell us something is not right or or some others brain might think it is in sync even if they watch the same video.
Either a lot of batches have faulty hardware, or all LG TVs have varying degrees of lip sync issues and most poeple can't notice.
 

Clem_Dye

Distinguished Member
Freeview and Freesat are the worst offenders chez moi, followed by BR playback. Oddly, DVD playback is fine, and I don’t notice any sync issues on apps.

Clem
 

google

Distinguished Member
It depends how you classify lip sync issues maybe?
My wife had no idea about that still thinks it is not that bad, a friend of mine only noticed it after I tell about him, another friend still think my TV is ok, but it is giving me creeps when lips don't match audio. But I am sure audio lags behind video at least 100 ms. Our brain tell us something is not right or or some others brain might think it is in sync even if they watch the same video.
Either a lot of batches have faulty hardware, or all LG TVs have varying degrees of lip sync issues and most poeple can't notice.
I only posted because I didn't understand why you think all LG TV's have lip sync issues. I still don't.
 

Clem_Dye

Distinguished Member
@google: I would hazard a guess that the inherent software design of LG TVs using WebOS lends itself more to lip sync issues than the previous NetOS operating system did. It's probably fair to say that not all LG customers experience the problem, or, if they do, it's perhaps a minor irritation to them. Given the almost endless number of hardware combinations out there it's reasonably safe to assume that any underlying problems will surface, witnessed by threads like this. LG must have been aware of the issue in the past, because, as I understand it, NetOS had the option to set a negative lip sync value and that feature is not present in the WebOS operating system. LG has made some software design decisions which can impact some more than others. For me, it's extremely irritating when it happens. If I use the same external hardware but use my Panasonic or Sony TVs, I don't see the problem, therefore I'm as confident that I an be that the LG is the source of the issue. The level of frustration here is obvious to see in this thread, made worse by LG not really doing much, if anything about it. Of course, the overall sample size here is small, but a simple web search will reveal the same issue being reported on other forums such as reddit. Count yourself lucky if you don't notice any lip sync issues, because if you do, your enjoyment is spoiled.

Clem
 

google

Distinguished Member
@google: I would hazard a guess that the inherent software design of LG TVs using WebOS lends itself more to lip sync issues than the previous NetOS operating system did. It's probably fair to say that not all LG customers experience the problem, or, if they do, it's perhaps a minor irritation to them. Given the almost endless number of hardware combinations out there it's reasonably safe to assume that any underlying problems will surface, witnessed by threads like this. LG must have been aware of the issue in the past, because, as I understand it, NetOS had the option to set a negative lip sync value and that feature is not present in the WebOS operating system. LG has made some software design decisions which can impact some more than others. For me, it's extremely irritating when it happens. If I use the same external hardware but use my Panasonic or Sony TVs, I don't see the problem, therefore I'm as confident that I an be that the LG is the source of the issue. The level of frustration here is obvious to see in this thread, made worse by LG not really doing much, if anything about it. Of course, the overall sample size here is small, but a simple web search will reveal the same issue being reported on other forums such as reddit. Count yourself lucky if you don't notice any lip sync issues, because if you do, your enjoyment is spoiled.

Clem
I have a C8 and don't have lip sync issues. They will be there, I just can't see them. :facepalm:
 

rgledhill

Member
There were two engineers that came to look at my TV - one an experienced chap, the other a new chap. It was clearly lagging on digital terrestrial TV and I pointed at it and said "Look, there you go". The experienced chap said "Yep, that's exactly the problem" and simultaneously the new chap said "Typical isn't it, it never does it when you want to demostrate it!".

And therein lies the problem. It's like being musical or tone-deaf - most people are one or the other and can't see how the other can live that way :) My wife can't see lip sync problems until they get quite bad, but YouTube and Chili.TV are shockingly bad, up to 500ms or more. Even she said she found it unwatchable.
 

Clem_Dye

Distinguished Member
Nearly foot through LG TV screen tonight! Trying to watch a BR disc via my Panasonic UB820 — video to TV, audio to soundbar. First 15 mins or so lip sync was so bad I nearly lost it, then for the next hour it was perfect, then for the remainder of the film way out again. Recommendations for new non-LG TV please!

Clem
 

rgledhill

Member
Crazy isn't it :(

From asking around on here and other forums, it seems that the Panasonic OLEDs don't suffer lip-sync problems and they use the LG OLED panel. Picture/motion processing is better too.

I really wish I'd bought the Panasonic :(
 

machinehead

Active Member
This is the only thing that's putting me off from getting a 65cx.I really don't want to spend that amount to then discover it has lip syncing issues.You would think that would be pretty high in their priorities for sorting. Reading back lots of posts it seems this has been going on in other models too.Shame
 

Clem_Dye

Distinguished Member
Yes, my LG TV is a 49SM8500PLA, not an OLED. Given the common firmware across so many LG TVs, there must be a lot of common hardware, which would explain the consistency of lip sync issues being experienced by so many LG TV owners. The trouble is, LG TVs have pretty much cornered the market in terms of feature set, connectivity, etc., so other manufacturers come-up short.

Clem
 

rgledhill

Member
Yep, just buy another manufacturer's TV with the LG panel. Avoid Sony and Philips as they use the abysmally slow and unresponsive Android operating system.
 

Clem_Dye

Distinguished Member
LG has now offered to take my TV away for 14 business days so that it can be repaired. As I’m on the government’s at-risk register for Covid19 there’s no way that I can have strangers in my home at present, so will have to defer for now. I will try and find out what the repairs are supposed to be though. My guess is the ‘main board’, which if true does beg the question: if this is the fix, which I doubt, based on comments in this thread, how many LG TVs are there out in user land with duff hardware? As I have a 5 year warranty on the TV I’ll let LG have it once I’ve found a replacement, because it’s a given that my pristine TV will come back covered in scratches, fingerprints and other crud, at which point I won’t have it in my front room. Repairers don’t seem to have any respect for people’s property, in my experience.

Clem
 

Clem_Dye

Distinguished Member
Well, LG has told me that they want to swap the main board in my TV, as that can cause lip sync issues. Is that really the fix? My TV must have some weird sort of selective ARC fault if playback from apps. is OK, as is DVD playback. It's only Freeview/Freesat and BR playback that's affected. In any event, with the lockdown going on I've deferred the repairs for now. I'm not convinced. Is swapping the main board the fix?

Cheers, Clem
 

rgledhill

Member
Surprise surprise, the exact same "fix" they did for me. They came today, replaced the main board, and with the default settings it didn't seem quite so bad initially. Then when I switched it back to proper ARC instead of PCM, and turned on the TrueMotion settings as I like them, the problems came back as before. The installer (a different one to the "It's the main board mate" before) said it was an identical board, so hardly surprising it doesn't improve matters. Basically they're clutching at straws as they can't fix it without LG's software and electronics team sorting it out. They can't understand that software can't "break" and can't be fixed by replacing a board, so they just do what they know which is replace boards and hope for the best.

Weirdly it actually seemed significantly worse after the TV did a software update to the latest, compared to the one that was installed on the board when it arrived in the box. I wonder if it is something to do with that?

Had a good chat with the repair engineer as they cover lots of brands. He said they see Sony TVs more than any other brand, then LG and Samsung, and almost no Panasonic repairs.

I've now put in a request for a refund again to LG given that the TV is clearly not fixable. If I do manage to get it, the Panasonic TX-55GZ950 is now the exact same price as the LG was so I could hopefully do a direct swap! Fingers crossed.
 

devoker

Standard Member
Sorry it didn't work. I had some hopes that the problem could be hardware but, it wasn't as expected.
Or the rose, a big percentage of produced board have this issue.

I think also the last firmware v04.71.25 made sync worse. I don't remember having lip sync issues with Netflix and youtube before that. Hopefully new update is coming and I read a forum post that it fixes youtube lip sync issue at least for internal speakers.
Panasonic TV would be a good choice but I think its OS is not as good as webos. I would have chosen Panasonic if they were sold in my country.
 

rgledhill

Member
Well, I've now raised this with Sevenoaks Sound & Vision who sold me the car. They have been massively helpful and enthusiastic; they have raised it within LG who have still come back saying I should take it up with tech support :facepalm:
Clearly that's not good enough so the Sevenoaks chap (David) now has many of my emails to/from LG's customer services and has forwarded them to Sevenoaks' senior management to see what they can do.
From my perspective it's quite simple - LG have failed to make something which it claims to do. Under EU law they therefore have to offer me an exchange or full refund - my choice. That's what I've told them and that's what I expect to get.
 

Clem_Dye

Distinguished Member
I went back to LG after they told me that they wanted to take my non-OLED TV away for repair to swap-out the main board, and told them that based on evidence here that this clearly wasn’t the fix. Moreover, I gave them chapter and verse under what circumstances I would see lip sync issues, and those that I would not. Since then, I’ve heard nothing. Quelle surprise. To my mind, if the main board, whatever that actually does, in my TV is faulty, then I would expect to see lip sync issues consistently across all sources/usage scenarios, and I don’t. It’s manifestly a software and/or major hardware design issue, that given the vast range of ancillary equipment available may or may not surface unless the conditions are correct for it to do so. That would explain why some owners see no problems whilst others do.

I also told LG that based on my past experiences of having kit repaired, it was a given that my currently pristine TV would come back damaged. I also advised LG that if its engineers wanted to look at my TV that was fine, provided that LG supplied me with a brand new replacement first.

I love my LG TV, but my biggest regret was not rejecting it within the 28-day return window that I had when I ran into the lip sync problems. I foolishly tried to fix things. Moreover, I blame myself for stupidly going ahead and buying it in the first place when I knew about potential lip sync issues. This is an expensive mistake that I won’t make again.

Clem
 

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