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LFE, crossover frequecy, etc.

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Dr.Rock, Feb 26, 2002.

  1. Dr.Rock

    Dr.Rock
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    I have a Denon 2802, set my speakers to small and crossover frequency set as 80 Hz. The general sound is quite tinny, I don't know if it's supposed to be like that (and it's just a matter of me getting used to it), or if I'm doing something wrong.

    I know what crossover frequency is, that means that al the bass below 80 Hz is directed to the subwoofer. When I set my speakers to 'large', the bass coming out of them is far richer. But then the amp asks me to select between LFE or LFE+Main for he sub. Is LFE related to crossover freq ? And what's LFE+Main?

    Sorry, but the manual that came with the amp isn't very user-friendly in explaining these things.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Jase

    Jase
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    What speakers and subwoofer are you using?

    On the Denon speaker options LFE means the subwoofer, LFE & MAIN means the subwoofer and the front left & right speakers.

    I dont know at what crossover the LFE channel (by this I mean the .1 of the soundtrack) cuts off to be honest, it could be 80hz or maybe even lower, possibly higher??

    If your speakers sound tinny then maybe you have the subwoofer cutoff set too low?? The crossover on the sub should be set to maximum as the amp is controlling the cutoff (80hz).

    cheers
     
  3. Dan5

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    LFE stands for Low Frequency Effects I believe.

    I also have a Denon 2802. Currently I am using a Mission M72 cinema speaker package with no subwoofer and that seems to sound quite good and not tinny. I too have my speakers set to small and the cut off at 80Hz which is the lowest setting (the choices are 80,100,120).

    I plan on getting a sub but don't really want to spend any more than $200 any recommendations?

    If anyone has any advice on how better to set my speakers then let me know.

    Thanks

    Dan
     
  4. bob007

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    Why are you selecting speakers to small if you have no sub, in the speaker configuration select no sub so your speakers can recieve all frequencies.
     
  5. Dr.Rock

    Dr.Rock
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    Hi Jase,

    My subwoofer (B&W Powerbass active) has no adustable cut-off. It only has a volume dial and phase switch. The phase switch doesn't make any difference so I leave that alone. So all the crossover settings is done on the amp. The main speakers I'm using are B&W 600's (which I'm going to change when my M72 hopefully arrives tomorrow morning). The bass is rich on those 600's when I set those to 'large' on the amp.

    Dan5, Bob007 is right. Since you have no sub, you should have your speakers set to large and your 'Subwoofer' selection set to 'No', otherwise you are unnessarily cutting out some important bass.

    So what happens whether I select LFE or LFE+Main on the amp? Does that affect the bass directed to the sub or also the main speakers?

    Thanks.
     
  6. Dan5

    Dan5
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    Thanks for the advice guys. I had tried both and not be able to notice any real difference but the source material probably didn't have much going on in the ".1" area.

    Dan
     
  7. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Why are you selecting speakers to small if you have no sub, in the speaker configuration select no sub so your speakers can recieve all frequencies.

    Dan5, Bob007 is right. Since you have no sub, you should have your speakers set to large and your 'Subwoofer' selection set to 'No', otherwise you are unnessarily cutting out some important bass.

    Yes, the important thing is to say sub = NO and mains = LARGE, other speakers can be SMALL though.
    Some AV amps are clever, e.g. if you say no sub but mains = SMALL the amp will not allow this or override the setting, i.e. set the mains to large.

    So what happens whether I select LFE or LFE+Main on the amp? Does that affect the bass directed to the sub or also the main speakers?

    If you have a sub you can duplicate the LFE to the subwoofer and main speakers (LFE+Mains setting). "LFE" only will send the LFE to the subwoofer only.
    As well if some speakers are set to SMALL the bass will be send to the sub only or being duplicated, depending on the setting as described above.
     
  8. Dr.Rock

    Dr.Rock
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    So if I set all my speakers to 'large' what's the use in setting a cross-over frequency, if only the LFE is going to the sub (assuming I only have 'LFE' selected and not 'LEF+Main') ?

    Sorry, I know all my speakers are not meant for the 'large' setting, but I'm only asking this for sake of interest and curiousity.

    Thanks.
     
  9. Reiner

    Reiner
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    There would be no use of that setting then ... (i.e. it will be ignored).
     
  10. MarkB

    MarkB
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    Jase,
    When playing a source that has .1, the .1 is only directed to the sub and so the LARGE/SMALL setting is irrelevant, unless there is no sub – in which case the .1 info will be sent to those speakers set to large (Front L&R I believe). I don’t know, though, what happens to those frequencies that are 'cut off' if you set the cut-off lower (say, on the A1SR)'.

    I was under the impression that it was not possible to select no sub + SMALL for the fronts; the fronts should automatically set themselves to LARGE.
     
  11. Jase

    Jase
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    MarkB

    I understand where all the bass goes in relation to Large/Small etc. What I´m not sure of is the actual bass frequency content of the .1 channel i.e whether its 20hz - 120hz, 5hz-50hz, 20hz-80hz etc etc???
     
  12. Lowrider

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    The .1 channel takes 0 hz to 120 hz, regardless of the crossover setting.

    The crossover setting only works for channels set to small... and should be set to a little above the -3 db rating of your speakers, for instance 120 hz with the KEF eggs...
     
  13. Jase

    Jase
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    Thanks Lowrider!

    Are you enjoying your Bryston??:)
     
  14. Lowrider

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    Fantastic, and I ended up saving 30% buying the demo, with a 20 year guaranty, who cares... :D
     
  15. Jase

    Jase
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    Lucky Guy!!:D

    Superb amplifiers Bryston, love one myself but need a new dvd player first!!

    Cheers
     
  16. Lowrider

    Lowrider
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    I am also very happy with my new FMJ DV27, still better than the DV88, sound and image, and I have progressive NTSC and PAL waiting for my next upgrade, a plasma... :D
     
  17. Jase

    Jase
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    Have you seen the new LCD flat panel tvs??

    They are still small but the picture quality is amazing. Saw a 20 inch Sharp running next to a Philips 42 inch Plasma both running Digital satellite. The LCD was far better (size difference apart)

    If they can get the LCD prices down (bloody expensive!!) and make them bigger they´ll be the ones to go for.
     
  18. Lowrider

    Lowrider
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    I will have to look at what is available when I have the cash...

    Thanks,
     
  19. MarkB

    MarkB
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    jase,
    Which DVD player are you thinking of getting?
    I think I'll hold on until DENON release a SACD playing version of the DVD-A1, but I could be waiting years!
    Mark
     
  20. Jase

    Jase
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    Hi Mark

    I was thinking of the Denon DVD A1, but like yourself want SACD as well (dont see why they cant add it, as the chip can handle it ok, mentioned this over at the A1SE/5800 forum).

    There dont seem to be people raving about it much considering it was shown at the Bristol show, so either its not impressive or not many people saw it!

    Maybe they could add a firmware ugrade for SACD?? I´m in no great rush (even if my current player isnt working so well, got a spare anyway!!) so i´ll sit back and see what happens.

    cheers
     
  21. MarkB

    MarkB
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    yep, me too.
     
  22. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Sony had a "closed doors" demo but by 2.00 on Sunday there was only one ticket left for the whole afternoon.

    Other stands were using SACD and we had a listen on the Leema Acoustics stand but the material that they were using wouldn't have stretched the format and in all cases they were were partnered by mega bucks amps anyway.
     
  23. Jase

    Jase
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    I was hoping to get some feedback on the Denon dvd player in particular (in terms of video & sound quality for dvd).

    I think lack of software and general consumer confusion might bury SACD & DVD Audio (or relegate to enthusiasts only) unless every manufacturer gets their arses into gear and realeases Universal players A.S.A.P.
     
  24. Reiner

    Reiner
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    They are still small but the picture quality is amazing. Saw a 20 inch Sharp running next to a Philips 42 inch Plasma both running Digital satellite. The LCD was far better (size difference apart)

    Are you sure? I have seen some of the Sharps including a 28" widescreen and found them all to be lousy with video sources, too much fizzing/processing artefacts. Yes, they do look great when connected to a PC and displaying graphics, but even DVD gives them a hard time.

    Personally I think neither Plasma nor LCD are currently the answer to the holy AV grail though they are getting better at it ...
     
  25. Jase

    Jase
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    Yep! Unless I´m going blind:confused:

    I didnt have a lot of time to check them out, but initial impressions were good, the LCD looked better though.
     

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