Lexicon MC-1 DTS seems bass heavy?

chrisgeary

Member
I recently switched from a Meridian 568 to the MC-1. The default settings for DTS Film seems very bass heavy. I've not yet compared the same movie's DD track versus DTS track but compared to 2 channel CD playback the difference is extreme. Compare a CD to a movie on my 568 and the movie had slightly more oomph. So what settings do you use for DTS LFE mix and sub level? for CD replay the balance is perfect.

Chris
 

chrisgeary

Member
something I should add is all my speakers are set to small. So what purpose does LFE mix serve if all my speakers are small anyway?
 

Mr_Sukebe

Active Member
Chris,

Sorry, can't help with your question, but would you mind commenting on differences in SQ between the two units, on both music and video?
 

chrisgeary

Member
Ok so I'm using the MC-1 DACs for all sources. It sounds more open and detailed compared to the 568 (it wasn't the .2 version) without any traces of sibilance or edginess. The first thing that struck me was the soundstage, it was back. I hate the phrase but it was like a veil had been lifted. Listening to Elbow's Seldom Seen Kid I could place instruments not only left and right, but forwards and backwards. The vocals were smooth, clear and detailed. I do have it set to -2.5db for treble but that's more to do with the lively room I listen in and the proximity to my speakers (2.5m or so). I did make a similar cut on the 568 for reference.

I'm quite surprised about the MC-1 for music playback, I wasn't expecting it to be so close to the 568 but I actually prefer it now. I would like to hear a 568.2 some day though. For movies its not so close, both deliver awesome dynamics, clarity with excellent steering.

Operationally (and this is why I made the switch), the MC-1 is a much more refined processor. It doesn't require a laptop to set it up which is much better than the Meridian processors. The MC-1 changes volume without audible glitches which unfortunately the 568 introduces at times. No rediculous noisy relays when changing inputs etc (561!). The MC-1 decodes DTS perfectly whereas on a few titles the 568 would cut out perdiodically, a bug noted by Meridian and fixed in the G series. The MC-1 volume control seems to operate entirely linearly, that is when you approach 0db, the 1db increments sound roughly the same up there as they do at say -20db. The 568 control gets much louder as you approach 0db, it doesn't seem as linear.

I was always (am!) a Meridian fan and I never thought the day would come when I would have none in my rack, but the niggles above, especially the DTS dropouts, got the better of me and the MC-1 is such a good price these days, I had to try it. And now I don't even think about it, it just works and works brilliantly.

But the snag I've found, and I just played a Dolby Digital movie just now, is the DTS LFE output seems too much. The manual states that LFE Mix is 0db and Sub Level is 0db by default. The same settings for Dolby Digital sound fine. Do I need to change the LFE Mix value for DTS to something else? Or should I lower the overall sub output for DTS?
 

Cmoth

Novice Member
Interesting diagnosis that Chris as I went from a MC1 to a 565 and the difference is like night and day. The Meridian is in a class of its own!

In my system with all speakers set to large the sound is much more open, detailed, refined and overall much more musical.
Initially I thought that there was less bass, I then realised that it was just soo much tighter and more musical.

I have a 568.25 which I have not managed to use yet for the very reason that you mentioned, the complexity of setting the bloody thing up:eek:

Each to their own I guess!

Col
 

chrisgeary

Member
Where are all the old school MC1 owners? There must be some of you out there still! ;)
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
Although I don't own a Lexicon, the symptom you describe may the well-known generic dts LFE issue.

Processors usually have a "DTS LFE Gain" setting. To quote from the manual for my processor:
DTS soundtracks typically have the LFE track recorded 10dB lower than the main audio
tracks. It is, therefore, necessary to compensate for this by raising the LFE output level by 10dB, and
setting the DTS LFE gain to ‘Normal’ activates this compensation. Some DTS soundtracks have been
recorded with the LFE signal at the same levels as the main audio, however, and therefore require no
gain compensation. For these disks set the DTS LFE gain to -10dB.
Check the manual for your MC1 to see what's necessary.
 

steve parker

Novice Member
I have an MC1, Parasound 1205 and Rel Storm sub, and once I've got it right the bass stays right, whether it's DD or DTS. I've just changed to Blu Ray via optical, and once again the bass is in line.
I suspect something in your settings. Happy hunting!
My normal setting is always Logic7 - better than anything else for movies IMO.

I also set my speakers to small, but then you have to set the crossover at either 80, 40 or 120. I set at 80, and same for sub. This is the THX standard, I think, but I also use it for my "custom" speaker setup.
 
Last edited:

Ianfromnotts

Well-known Member
I use Logic 7 for virtually everything - well apart from music which the MC1 isn't great at but if you use the direct input that goes direct to the dacs it s far better than the regular inputs.

As for sub volumes I just set it at the level that sounds right, from memory the centre is at 120, mains large, rears 80 and the sub 120
 

chrisgeary

Member
Thanks all,

Mark: regarding the quote. I've read that before but what I'm specifically after is to understand the implications of LFE Mix and Subwoofer level on the MC1. I *think* I need to reduce LFE mix rather than subwoofer level. What do you all have your LFE Mix and sub level set for DTS sources?
 

Ianfromnotts

Well-known Member
I dial in an extra 2-3 db on the rears and an extra 8db on the sub when I balance the speakers via the external meter then from memory I have the rears set at +5, sides set at +3 and all the rest at 0. If the sub sounds a bit light I sometimes add an extra couple of DB whilst I am listening. I have never used the LFE adjust. This set up is on all but I only really use Logic 7.
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
Your first post indicated a difference in bass level between dts and DD. The only explanation I can think of is the one I posted concerning source differences. I am not aware of any format-specific mix options other than the dts LFE level option I mentioned. This is known as LFE MIX LEVEL on your MC1. Subwoofer level (more typically called trim) affects the relative level of the subwoofer per se and is generally configured, together with settings in the sub, using an SPL during setup calibration. Whether you need to alter the LFE MIX LEVEL for dts is unfortunately - as posted before - unpredicatable in advance as it's disc-specific (groan).
 
Last edited:

chrisgeary

Member
Thanks... so lets assume that all my DTS discs are bass heavy (so far that appears to be true). Coming from a Meridian processor where I never needed to make an adjustment, what setting do you use for LFE Mix? -10db?

I still don't understand the purpose of this feature when all my speakers are set to small. Surely any LFE sent to those speakers is going to be rerouted to my sub anyway. I'm guessing LFE Mix is a way of controlling that. But as I never had it before, I need some guidance as to what is the appropriate setting for the majority of DTS discs.
 

Godfather

Well-known Member
My LFE mix is at zero. DD, DTS and 2 channel CD all sound fine to me. I'm also an ex-Meridian owner (568.2MM) and love the MC1 to bits.
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
If your DTS was recorded with LFE at 0dB, you'll need to set -10dB. Lexicon calls it LFE Mix, because what's sent to the subwoofer is a mixture of the LFE channel and redirected bass (as per crossover). Since it's only the LFE channel that may have been recorded at -10dB or 0dB with dts, it is only the LFE channel that needs adjusting, not the entire subwoofer level.

Your second paragraph implies that the exaggerated bass is coming from the main speakers, not the subwoofer, and that despite having set them to small. If that is the case, I have no idea what the cause may be. There's nothing special in dts recordings that affect this and bass redirection should anyway result in the bass going to the subwoofer.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Panasonic HZ2000 OLED TV Review: The best OLED for movie viewing in 2020
Top Bottom