Lets have some honesty please! SD material and panels - your view.

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by Loobster, Dec 31, 2006.

  1. Loobster

    Loobster
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    Ok. The purpose of this thread is to try and get some honest responses from panel owners (not that I think anyone's inherently dishonest!) about SD material on their panels.

    I ask this because the forum currently seems to be awash with posters asking about which panel they should buy - but they ONLY (or at least MOSTLY) want to watch SD material, i.e. Sky, telewest or freeview, and some DVD (which is still SD don't forget!).

    My view is that with the current crop of panels (both plasma and LCD) that you are always going to get a superior picture out of a CRT with SD sources. I am tired of looking at blocky pictures, blurred motion, less than vibrant plasmas and expensive price tags.

    Therefore my questions are as follows:

    1) Please state make and model of your panel.

    2) How many of you panel owners can HONESTLY say that YES - you feel that your SD picture on your panel is equivalent to or better than the CRT that it replaced?

    If your answer to 2 is YES -

    3) Where did you go (which store/showroom etc) to view your panel with an SD source for you to determine that this was the case --OR-- did you take a risk and just believe that SD viewing would be acceptable?

    If your answer to 2 is NO -

    4) Please state why you still bought your panel anyway.

    5) Please state if you managed to improve your SD picture any by sigificant degree by manipulation of settings on the set - also if you managed to end up with an SD picture significantly better than you saw in the showroom.

    ~~~~~

    I believe that answers to these questions will help those of us who want a panel and want to future proof ourselves by preparing for HD but who refuse to accept a "downgrade" in SD picture quality.

    Thanks for any responses.
     
  2. misae

    misae
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    1) Please state make and model of your panel. - TH-42PX60

    2) How many of you panel owners can HONESTLY say that YES - you feel that your SD picture on your panel is equivalent to or better than the CRT that it replaced? YES

    If your answer to 2 is YES -

    3) Where did you go (which store/showroom etc) to view your panel with an SD source for you to determine that this was the case --OR-- did you take a risk and just believe that SD viewing would be acceptable?


    I went to several stores before buying it including, Electrical Reliance, Currys, Comet, Dixons and John Lewis.

    It was after viewing the HD broadcast in Comet and then when I went to Currys I saw a Samsung PDP alongside with a Panasonic on an extremely bad SD feed. Deal o r No Deal with Noel Edmunds was on. The Samsung had interference lines going through it and a snow effect. I asked the assistance to plug in the Panasonic and it cleaned up all the interference and the image looked pretty good. No signs of snow on it either. That is when I realised the Panasonic was in a different league to other cheaper models.

    If your answer to 1 is NO -

    4) Please state why you still bought your panel anyway.

    5) Please state if you managed to improve your SD picture any by sigificant degree by manipulation of settings on the set - also if you managed to end up with an SD picture significantly better than you saw in the showroom.

    My SD picture on Five, Sky, CBeebies (kicks ass) and other high bitrate channels is much better than what I saw in the showrooms of all the places I visited.

    Hope that helps. The only thing that I feel is inferior on the PX60 compared to my old JVC HDTV CRT (lovely CRT on its own and was only a year old when I got rid of it) is the black levels. Everything else is superior in my eyes.
     
  3. ash

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    I have the 42PX600. The SD on some channels looks better on my plasma than CRT, while sometimes they don't. It really depends, like for example Channel5, CSI looks AMAZING! whereas abc1 doesn't look the best. For DVD, I think it is better (maybe because I only watch new films which usualyl all have great transfers.)
     
  4. Jonstone

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    1) Panasonic 37PD60 which is an sd plasma

    2) Yes the overall picture package is a big improvement over my old crt set

    3) Went to my local panasonic centre where the display conditions are a lot closer to a home setting than your typical comet etc.

    4) N/A

    5) Picture is very similar to that I saw in the showroom as it was well set up there too.

    A note on point 2 - I think it is important to compare like for like with these things.

    My old crt was a 28" widescreen so making a comparison on colours etc with a 37" plasma is always going to be difficult because if you could find a crt with a visible screen size of 37" I am sure the picture with sd would show some deterioration.

    Then there is the geometry issues you would get on a crt of this size.

    Some people notice different aspects of PQ more than others, so someone who prefers the overall package of a large screen lcd/plasma over a smaller crt isn't wrong, it is just their preferrence and vice versa.

    Instead of going for a large hd plasma I chose to buy a smaller sd one and use the money I saved to put towards an hd projector and its a solution I am more than happy with.
     
  5. razbox

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    Yep, CSI looks amazing, esp CSI Miami, on the PX600 or PX60
     
  6. Loobster

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    I expect Miami looks good because it's always a very colourful show!

    All good responses - keep them coming! :thumbsup:
     
  7. ash

    ash
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    Yeah, and that C5 use really high bitrates, or some encoding magic :D
     
  8. chaparral

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    Then you better give up on looking for a plasma...As a larger screen is never going look as sharp and hide the PQ faults like a smaller screen would on the same SD signal at the same viewing distance..

    But i take watching SD on my pioneer 43" plasma over my 32" widescreen CRT anyday...

    1) pioneer 436xde
    2)My CRT was only 32" so i can't compare like for like..But am very impressed with the SD PQ on it.Plus i do much watching from my PC desk went using my PC like i am now,which is only between 3ft to 4ft viewing distance and it's even fine for this.
    3)three different stores..and the pioneer plasma were blowing away everything else on display (which where mainly LCD's)
    4)went looking for an (up to £1000) 37" lcd and came home with a £2300 plasma..:rotfl: ..(see (3) for why)
    5)Brought a sky+ box...as only had an aerial feed before,(that was feeding four other TV in the house as well..)
     
  9. KinkyAffro

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    My opinion remains exactly the same as on the other thread-

     
  10. Loobster

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    As does my response! :smashin:
     
  11. Gunner Rob

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    At the risk of turning this thread into an ad for panasonic:
    Replaced my akai 28in crt 4:3 with a panny 37px60. Picture via analogue tuner average, probably inferior to previous tv. However, picture via integral freeview tuner v. good, better than previous tv. I appreciate this is not a fair comparison between crt and plasma, but in my case I can honestly say that I am happier with my current sd picture ( on digital ).
    After lots of research into the latest flat panel screens I was all set to buy an lcd. When I started viewing I started to become dissapointed with sd picture quality, especially fast moving sports action.
    I then visited the panasonic shop where they obviously take the time to set their screens up properly (unlike currys, comet etc ) and was able to see good quality sd pictures, along with superb hd loops. This was where I not only made the decision to buy a flat screen, but also I could see the advantage of plasma over lcd with fast moving action scenes.
    When I got my tv home it was at least as good as that on display in the showroom without any alterations to the existing aerial.
    Bearing in mind that the new tv is 30% bigger than the previous one the sd picture quality is an improvement. Upscaled 720p (not true hd ), well :D
    Hope this helps.

    Happy (plasma) New Year to all:clap:
     
  12. Loobster

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    That's interesting. The worst pic I would be putting through any TV is a Sky Digital signal, which in theory should be better than freeview (in fact I don't have a roof aeriel so I wouldn't use either tuner in a PX60).

    Perhaps I should take a visit to a Panasonic shop.
     
  13. Skagg

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    Just replaced my Panasonic 32" CRT Quintrix with a 50" PX60 Plasma & if i'm totally honest the picture from my CRT set when hooked up to SD Sky Digital & a Dreambox is far better. But then i expected that, I realise that if i'm gonna have a 42" plus screen i have to feed it with a HD source to get the best from it. In all fairness when I feed the 50" with material such as BBC HD i'd suggest the quality is only a slight improvement than that i saw on the old 32" CRT but on a bigger screen. The only feed i have seen that that truely had the WOW factor for me was a 1080P source & TV

    Only my opinion but hey we all have different views on what good, bad or indifferent.

    ;)
     
  14. rbartlett

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    Replaced my 28" tosh with a 42" SD panny from Curry's and can honestly say that the picture is way better providing the broadcasters are doing their job. The main problem is signal not screen quality.

    Cheers

    Richard
     
  15. robin78

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    1) 42PX60

    2) The picture is better than the CRT it replaced that wasn't difficult as the CRT was long due to be replaced, however the TDT (Spanish freeview) image on my plasma is better than the Non-TDT image of the Philips matchline (32") of my mother-in-law.

    3) Milar (Spanish retialer) and various other retailers

    4) -

    5) Getting better picture then from show-room settings is really easy. Change the setting from dynamic to normal or cinema, change the color temp. from cold to normal or warm (I prefer normal) and lower contrast,brightness, sharpness and colour. Doing so makes 1000% difference.
     
  16. lgans316

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    Comparing Panny 37" Plasma, Sammy 42" Plasma , 29" Thomson CRT and 21" Sony CRT

    1.Sony CRT is miles ahead of the others in terms of overall SD picture. It is followed by Panny, Thomson and Sammy.
    2.SD picture is obviously not upto the level of the Sony CRT but it's better than the others I have mentioned.

    Owing to the nature of technology and the size I am moving the CRT out of the comparison.

    3.Even with a poor feed the Panny easily outperformed the Sammy.
    4.Because of the good pre-charge blacks in the Panny the color saturation was good.
    5.Flesh tones are relatively accurate in the Panny (with the latest firmware) than the Sammy which exhibits lots of Clay face and banding.

    Okay bringing in the big daddy of all (The PIO)

    6.Though PIO is arguably a better HDTV it's SD pictures looks very soft and the broadcast picture quality processing is not as good as the Panny.
    7.The Panny is relatively noise free. Sammy and Pio buzzes a lot.

    The above doesn't mean the Panny is a clear winner as it suffers from purple banding and fizzing issues.
     
  17. windie

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    Hitachi 7200 replacing a 32" Sony CRT

    The picture quality depends on the channel on Sky as stated by other people, the poorer bit rate channels look distictly better on the CRT. Channel 5 or BBC1&2 or the sky sports channels look very good on the 7200. DVD via component generally looks better on the 7200 again it depends on the disc used some films just look crap on both.

    I visited various local shops and all the big retailers

    We also have a Toshiba MT200 projector and find the the sky picture on this is generally better than both the Sony and the 7200. The 7200 wins hands down though if given a decent HD source, especially the 360 as you would expect really. We find that overall the 7200 is a very good panel although I am looking for a small Panasonic panel for upstairs.
     
  18. steve1056

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    I spent 2 years looking for a TV that could replace my 6 year old 32" Sony CRT! I didn't care whether it was to be an LCD or Plasma as long as it was an improvement. Finally found what I was looking for in the Fujitsu. :thumbsup:
     
  19. choddo2006

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    1) Please state make and model of your panel. Panasonic 42PHD8 (fed via an iScan vp50 external scaler)

    2) How many of you panel owners can HONESTLY say that YES - you feel that your SD picture on your panel is equivalent to or better than the CRT that it replaced? Yes definitely. far cleaner and scrolling text etc is much smoother. And if distance is taken into account, good channels like 5 look good from about 2', ITV looks good from about 4'. One thing that really jumps out is the vividness & solidity of the colours. Animated kids programs for example on low bitrate channels like cBeebies and Nick Jr (although I'm sure they need less bandwidth than real video) look gloriously colourful with really strong smooth black lines around cartoons

    If your answer to 2 is YES -

    3) Where did you go (which store/showroom etc) to view your panel with an SD source for you to determine that this was the case --OR-- did you take a risk and just believe that SD viewing would be acceptable?
    I saw a friend's PWD3 using a similar scaler (VP30) and SkySD and DVD looked very good and I read recommendations on a couple of forums including here. My main reason for upgrading was to get HD so I just wanted to get "as good" SD as I had on my Sony 32FQ75 but I think actually I got quite a bit better and clearly a much bigger screen and more room in my lounge into the bargain.
     
  20. Flatcoat

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    1) Please state make and model of your panel - Pioneer 436 XDE.

    2) Yes but only on Freeview or Sky. Analogue on the Pioneer is unwatchable.

    3) Yes – I took a risk that SD would be good. I took advice from friends who worked in a Hi-Fi shop that sold Flat TV's. - They said for a money no object price, the Pioneer 436 was the best, but if they were buying, they would consider the Panny which they considered was nearly as good as the Pioneer (£2250 vs £1500 at the time) - I wanted the best and went for the Pioneer and have no regrets. Yesterday, I was in John Lewis and was talking to an assistant about 23/26” displays (for my kitchen). I mentioned I had the Pioneer and unprompted he said he considered the Pioneer is the best screen they sell.

    4) N/A.

    5) I have not changed the settings on the TV.
     
  21. VKara101

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    1) Pioneer 427XD

    2) I have to say YES i feel the 427xd SD PQ is as good as if not better than my CRT, but this is only true for Sky/Freeview feeds, an analogue feed is terrible.

    3) I went to my local AV shops, too many to list, spent good 3months looking at various panels, many panels did not handle SD as well as the Pio and Pannys.

    4) N/A

    5) Managed to improve SD PQ by getting new better quality cables, made a noticable difference, also tinkering with some settings on both the source and panel helped.
     
  22. voodooflux

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    Pioneer PDP-507XD

    Pushed for an answer, YES. In some aspects the picture is better (more vibrant colours) but in other aspects it is worse (showing up transmission artifacts). I feel CRT, at least my trusty old Mitsubishi, is more forgiving of low bitrate channels such as the numerous *music* (and I use the term loosely) offerings.

    Lots of places. John Lewis, Currys, Comet, Empire Direct, specialist dealers (for a Fuji demo as well). Most of the SD feeds that I saw were just acceptible, so I kinda took a chance as well. Getting the panel home the SD performance is much better than I expected - it is very good indeed.

    I really wanted a big plasma on my wall :D

    Nope, just plugged it in to my Sky HD box and was immediately impressed. No tinkering necessary for the channels that I watch. The SD performance is better than almost all the showroom demos that I saw.
     
  23. acem8

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    Does anyone have any experience of the commercial plasmas you see in bars/airports. I have seen some panasonics and they have the best SD picture I have seen for sport.

    I assume they won't have a tuner or speakers (and maybe not HD) but if you can get one for less than a grand they would make a great buy if you have sky and a 5.1 set up.

    I would be very interested in any model numbers, looking to upgrade from a Tosh CRT rear projection very soon.
     
  24. Kalos Geros

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    These may well either PH8 or PH9 Panasonic industrial grade plasmas- PH8 is out of production but may be found perhaps for under a grand...think PH9 is just over a grand but is an improvement over PH8...so you don't get speakers or TV tuner or SCART or component or HDMI inputs unless you pay for them additionally...you get composite, S-video and VGA in...and they are HDReady...still can't tell for how long those airport plasmas have been hanging out there...maybe these are 5-6 years old and are SD-only...all newer ones are HD...
     
  25. fortean

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    I have just replaced a Philips 32PW9527 with a Panasonic TH-50PX60B and when the SD source is good enough the picture quality of the Plasma over the CRT is exceptional. With the plasma however it is easier to see the problems caused by a low quality source.

    I viewed the panel at Sound & Vision in Bolton displaying BBC1 via the built in digital tuner.

    When I was considering this purchase I was concerned that I may not be happy with SD material on it and end up getting SKY HD and/or a HD-DVD player. As it happens I am very happy with the picture quality and have no desire to view HD material on it yet. I hope I will be happy enough to wait until prices of HD video sources have fallen and hopefully Blue Ray has gone so that I won't have to join the format war.

    NB: My only reason for wanting Blue Ray to fail is that I have a very deep distrust of Sony.
     
  26. Cromonix

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    Purchased a Pioneer PDP-4270XD. I was also very concerned with SD performance and looked at a lot of models. Had a long play with a 427XD in Sevenoaks Sound and Hifi. Looked pretty good but wasn't completely happy with the SD performance but had the feeling I could improve it with further tweeking. Had the panel for a couple of months now and now very happy with the picture. Using with SD Sky and Xbox 360, and internal Freeview.
     
  27. Andy ARB

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    1) Panasonic TH-42PH9

    2) Yes - I'd say better than the Panasonic TX-36PB50 it replaced

    3) Took a risk but had read reviews and 'demoed' the SD version of it whilst waiting for a flight in Doncaster Airport ;)

    4) Trusted the opinions on here combined with seeing other panasonic plasmas such as the Panasonic TH42PX600

    5) Not really messed with the setting but have hooked the freeview box up to the VGA port using a JS Technology RGB2VGA converter.
     
  28. Loobster

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    Some excellent and varied responses, which is what I hoped and expected.

    Keep 'em coming guys! :clap:
     
  29. Zigourney

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    1) make and model: Sony 40W2000 LCD TV and Sony sdmhs73p 17" LCD monitor panel

    2) The 40W2000 was intended to replaced sony 32" WEGA Trinitron CRT the dogs bo***ks of all CRT's and no my LCD is not better than my CRT for freeview. But it is MUCH better for DVDs

    If your answer to 2 is NO -

    4) Please state why you still bought your panel anyway: because i use it for 1) mostly for xbox 360 and soon PS3 2) for dvd's. which means i still watch most of the low bitrate freeview on my CRT

    5) Yes i have managed to improve my SD picture quality on my LCD significantly by custom settings, on some high bitrate channels my LCD can match my CRT, but i dont think any LCD at the moment can beat my Trinitron at standard deff at the moment!
     
  30. Rob100

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    I've owned my Plasma for over 4 years and still think it's superb. It's only a SD panel and 'back then' there was only SD content to view without using a PC and the internet.

    I still to this day only watch SD on it. Lesson I learnt within a few days of owning is c**p in and c**p out. Everything that wasn't able to drive the panel with RGB or component had to go (VHS VCR etc).

    Have NEVER watched terrestrial on it as it generally looks bad. Freeview looks great and Sky when we had it looked okay on the main channels. Not the place to discuss, but the only Sky channel that looked (slightly) better than Freeview was C5.

    1) TH42PW5B.

    2) Without any doubt. Replaced 28" Panny CRT which cost best part of £1k about 6 years ago. Better convergence, bigger picture, less flicker etc etc...

    3) Demo at local independant dealer. Funny how then the plasma(s) (I think they had two on demo) were hidden away in the demo room. The shop floor was filled with CRT's. How times change :)

    The picture I have is WAY better than what the dealer was able to demo.
     

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