Leaf II announcement due tomorrow, who's waiting up?

Discussion in 'Hybrid, PHEV & EV Electric Cars Forum' started by DrPhil, Sep 5, 2017.

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  1. gangzoom

    gangzoom
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    From my own experience the theoretical max range isnt the one that counts. If really needed am sure I can get our Model X to do 300 milea by driving at 55mph behind a lorry.

    The sting in the tail is when its pouring down with rain, near sub zero temps, a traffic jam causing diversions, and than you see your expected range drop by 30% from the summer and end up turning off the heater/radio.....Once you've been that position trust me your be glad for planning a trip around the EPA rating for range rather than the stupid European cycle.
     
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  2. IronGiant

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    But in the real world I tend to do my longer journeys in daylight and during the better weather. So I am interested in what range the New Leaf has in those ideal conditions. That the range drops by 30% in foul weather at night time is of passing interest, but of little practical relevance to our driving habits as we only tend to drive a short commute at those times. The longest journey we do with any regularity is 75 miles, so knowing we could reasonably expect to get there and back again in good conditions without having to re-charge en route would be useful info for us to have. Your interests may differ.
     
  3. DrPhil

    DrPhil
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    I've come to the conclusion that I'll likely be buying the new Leaf, second hand and mid/late next year.

    I had hoped that the new car would be a 200 mile version and I'd buy it and keep it long term.

    However I don't want to wait until late 2019 to change and it looks like that's the earliest I'd be able to get into a second hand 60kwh Leaf 2 or an improved range Ioniq. I'd rather move on my 14 Leaf while it has some warranty and 12 bars on the battery and I have a friend waiting in the wings to buy it.

    The 40kwh Leaf can be the interim measure in mid/late 18 and by 2021 or so there should be plenty of options including the model 3, the BMW i5, maybe the Bolt, long range Ioniq and the 60kwh Leaf.
     
  4. EarthRod

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    I live in hope the new Leaf is able to do better than the EPA 150 miles under normal driving conditions.

    Beginning of next year we should have a better understanding of the Leaf 2 capabilities.

    @IronGiant - what do you think the 'old' Leaf range is under summer driving conditions in your experience?
     
  5. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    I don't know whether they improved the battery management over the years but driving normally with aircon on I think we are getting 90* miles out of our 2017 24kWh battery. Realistically that means we wouldn't want to plan for more than 80 miles without recharging. So although we could comfortably do our 75 mile trips, we'd need to recharge before coming back. So there would be no point upgrading to the new one unless we could comfortably get back on a single charge.

    * just checking that figure with Mrs IG who drives it.

    Edit: yes, 90 it is, and 90 divide 24 X 40 is worryingly 150....

    So unless they have improved the efficiency for the Leaf 2, that 150 may be it. Our pcp takes us to 2020, so we'll just be patient.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  6. DrPhil

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    My biggest question is motorway miles. The only long range trips I do are Dublin or Belfast and I soend a lot of that time at 70 (or more, certainly not).

    The current 24kwh is a disgrace at that speed. The Ioniq is much better.
     
  7. IronGiant

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    40% of Mrs IG's commute is on dual carriageway, so is included in our mileage range. I might hammer it down the A34 to see what it's really like at 70 (ish).
     
  8. EarthRod

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    It seems, at a guess, the second generation Leaf is great for city/town and short distance driving. But any journey over (say) 130 miles becomes a concern and requires planning for a recharge pit stop.

    As for dark cold winter travel any journey over 100 miles might be a concern.

    Range still a major problem, but await the car magazine reviews to confirm if the above is true.

    I was hoping for better - oh well :(
     
  9. gangzoom

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    Here is some info on Leaf speed vs efficiency. Bare in mind the speedo on the Leaf over reads by 10%.

    The 'new' is virutally the same shape as the old car so is not going be any more efficient on the aero front. EV motors are all over 90% efficient so your not going to make magical gains on that front.

    At 70mph if the new Leaf can hit 150 miles that would be a good achievement.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. IronGiant

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    Dark is a complete red herring. Even with Halogen headlights at 150W that's the equivalent of 266 hours of driving for a 40kWh battery. Say your range is 150 miles and you drive at 50, that's 3 hours. Your lights will cost you 1.7 miles. And if the New Leaf has LED lights, you can cut that in half.
     
  11. IronGiant

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    So if we drive at a constant 55mph we would get 103 range. And at 70mph 79 range, which probably fits in with our real life experience of mixed usage at 90..

    But if we got a new one, our range would extend by approx 50%, but the doors would look nearly the same as the doors we already have, so that's a deal buster then. :facepalm:
     
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    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  12. EarthRod

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    Ah yes, but saying 'dark cold winter' sounds more dramatic (but I get your point) :)

    It might interest you to know that burning five 60 watt bulbs for one hour will use the same energy as the Leaf to travel one mile.

    Apparently that is the equivalent of about 114 mpg.

    ...Not a lot of people know that.

    Understanding kiloWatt-hours in electric cars and other gizmos
     
  13. rousetafarian

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    Mod Comment:
    This isn't a Tesla thread, other threads are available.
     
  14. IronGiant

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    I'll bet that will drop even lower if it's got snow chains
    First thing I did when we got the leaf was figure out how many miles we could save by changing the Halogen bulbs to LED, I decided not to bother. If the range is "only" 90 miles then a worst case scenario is that that takes 3 hours and your one mile becomes 3.
     
  15. gangzoom

    gangzoom
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    All I can say is wait till you have lived with the Leaf for a winter before making conclusions about how much range is 'enough'.
     
  16. outoftheknow

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    I'm going to bet IG is perfectly happy with his winter range - it doesn't sound like Mrs IG is suddenly going to decide to try a 300 mile trip just to see what will happen.

    As I did before give the Leaf a chance. Plenary of people have the first version and it does what they want. The new one will extend the range for them a fair bit. It will attract a few who will were hovering around needing 20-30 miles more to feel comfortable.

    We have got the hang of physics that the range will drop in winter and other makes will go further when it is cold

    That table you posted was useful.

    Leaf 2 isn't anywhere near my minimum range for my normal use here in Australia - it fails on my interior space criteria too though and that will never be fixed in that model. Looks better than the old though IMO and should attract a few new EV owners i expect :)
     
  17. rousetafarian

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    Yet you are also making assumptions about a new product that has only just been released, you haven't driven, or experienced and probably have no appetite to do so.

    How does that work?
     
  18. gangzoom

    gangzoom
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    So you are now marking out my contributions even when I dont mention the T word.....its all rather childish dont you think ;)
     
  19. EarthRod

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    Don't look at rousetafarian as a Mod with post #47, he posted as a normal member.

    A Mod will nearly always start with the words 'MOD COMMENT' or something similar when posting wearing the Moderator hat.
     
  20. EarthRod

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    As I've mentioned before my minimum range is 150 miles. So that matches exactly the EPA range of the Leaf 2 as allegedly being 150 miles.

    Ahhhgggggg!!!

    Still interested though - looking forward to viewing, kicking the tires and taking out for a test drive.
     
  21. Jimx26

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    The leaf 2 will be perfect for our use and probably 90% of the people who buy it as a second car.
    Even if the range drops 50 miles in winter it will still be more than enough for my 16 mile a day commute and for quick trips into the local town 5 miles away. For all the longer journey's we will use our ICE.
     
  22. SourKraut

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    Those that can afford a Leaf for a second car are very fortunate, as I have never had a second car due to finances, but I still went for a Leaf, and found it very good...I like the newish shape of next years Leaf, but very much underwhelmed by its range. Still as I mentioned before, I still have <3yrs for my next change, so hoping that the range will be much more by then
     
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  23. gangzoom

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    This is my exact point about EVs, yes a 100 mile range car is fine for fixed trips but most people buy a car to cover all their journey needs. As range increases more and more people will find EVs will suit the job of replacing their combustion cars completly. My own experience of owning the 24kWh EV was the more I drove it the more frustrating it became I couldn't do long trips in it with ease, as the car it self was really nice to drive but just didnt have the range.

    How many people get into their combustion car and feel the urge to fill up with petrol if the fuel gauge showd 80 miles versus 200 mile?

    That's the range difference between the old 24kWh Leaf and a 60kWh one.

    I really was hoping Nissan would bring the 'afforable' 200 mile range EV to the UK market, it will come am 100% sure, but not just yet :(.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  24. Clem_Dye

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    Collectively, we're still in the 'early adopters' stage of EV. That vehicles are now surfacing with greater range is all to the good, but it doesn't take away the fact that re-charging will take a lot longer than filling-up a car with fossil fuel. If you have the time to wait for a [fast] charge somewhere, all well and good, but what about in an emergency situation (like those life-and-death/end of life scenarios that sadly many of us will face)? EV will always remain hopeless in those situations to my mind. I still maintain that hydrogen fuel has a part to play here, and it's that that will get us over the range anxiety (assuming plenty of filling stations exist, obviously). Although there have been plenty of advances in battery technology recently, the new Leaf demonstrates that range anxiety is still an issue and until we get a battery with a really decent range (500 miles springs to mind here) I think that EV take-up will be limited to shorter range work. That in itself is a good thing from the pollution perspective, but I think that we'll see a mix of EV and hydrogen-powered vehicles in the longer term.

    Clem
     
  25. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    I had a look at the Nissan website, in white with the black roof the new Leaf II actually looks rather nice...Pricing of the current one is quote a bargain as well....And the interior of the UK models doesn't look as hideous as the videos linked above...Hmmm
     
  26. gangzoom

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    ^The current Leaf offers look crazy, especially with the new scrappage discounts Nissan has started. I spent £5k all in running our Leaf for 2 years, that includes all finance costs, fuel, insurance, servicing. Your struggle to find a cheaper brand new mid sized family car!!! I suspect if you push hard enough you can get a old Leaf for £150/month or even lower!!

    What I don't understand is why Nissan still sticks with a list price of nearly £30k when these cars are been sold/financed at the same cost as a £15-20k car. Surely if Nissan just dropped the list price to sub £20k these things will sell much better.
     
  27. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    Nissan has had a habit of doing this. I had a factory order Nissan Patrol GR list for £32K brand new for £22K. Same with a Navara Pickup truck top of the range for £16K.

    Despite the same doors :p I like the look of the new Leaf much better.
     
  28. Chester

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    @dejongj Wow! That's over 31%! BMW are known as strong discounters but at closer to 20%. I equally don't understand Nissan's position here; maybe they need a realisation shift as Samsung have with pricing their TVs.

    I got a little excited about the Leaf as a potential first foray into EV motoring. I'm actually quite sad to report that armed with incremental (or 'facelift' differences) specifications with this new one, I think it would be worthwhile for those that are 'looking' to stand back for a while. As Apple stood back looking on whilst other manufacturers got the tablet wrong, and then launch the iPad, I think a similar situation is brewing in the car industry and not necessarily with more traditional or established manufacturers.

    And come on, more than an EV? Nissan, stop trying to over hype the car! A Focus can park itself for god's sake; and scrub the alloys to death doing it.

    Instead, I think 2020 is going to be a very interesting year for EVs. So I'll continue to burn petrol and let EV drivers battle with genuine or non-genuine range anxiety, and look forward to what's coming next, because a MkIII Leaf might be the one we were expecting this time around. It was too big a leap for Nissan right now, probably trying to recoup R&D and tooling costs so this Leaf couldn't be too much further ahead. I'm confident they will turn over a... Oh dear!
     
  29. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    Yes I guess you are right. One of the things we have to consider as well is that all our cars are currently automatic, and within a year my eldest can have driving lessons. I know the future is automatic, and definitely for EV. However I’d like them to have that experience of manual gear changes :)
     
  30. IronGiant

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    An annoying quirk of the system. You'd think that it wouldn't be too hard to take a manual addon module, which only need consist of a short demo that you can handle the minimal extra concentration a manual requires.
     

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