1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

LCDs that can handle Xbox gaming

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by JamieBee, Jun 28, 2005.

  1. JamieBee

    JamieBee
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    934
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    I bought my first LCD TV and recd my Toshiba 32WL56 last Friday. Now, it looks great and the television pic quality is excellent BUT when I turned my XBox on and tried to use that, I encountered problems.

    Whenever, I move between options on menus, the text on the option I am unselecting and the text on the option I am moving to, the text blurs momentarily and then sharpens again. In addition, whenever text appears at the top of the screen during a game, it blurs for a split second and then looks ok. Now, first of all I thought it may go off but it hasnt. After a while, it annoyed the hell out of me. I have fiddled around with the TV settings and after asking ppl in a couple of shops and ringing Toshiba direct I have been told it is the refresh rate and there is nothing I can do about it. I have tried plugging the xbox in via the 3 red, white and yellow cables plus via a scart - no difference. For this reason, the tv is being collected Friday and is being sent back to Empiredirect where I bought it from. A very helpful person at Empiredirect said my TV prob has a refresh rate of around 14-16milliseconds but I need one with say, 10-12 milliseconds.

    Can anyone recommend any up to date LCDs that are HD ready or HD compatible (32" inch screen required) for around the £800-£1300 mark that will allow me to XBox without these problems ?

    Your help would be appreciated - my head is spinning with all this LCD research I am doing here.

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    10,213
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Glasgow, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,310
    I assume you're running a standard European unmodded Xbox with a SCART cable?

    This sounds like the deinterlacer. Your Xbox is probably outputting Interlaced video and your LCD TV is a Progressive device, in other words it has to fill in the gaps in the picture that it receives. Other LCD TVs will have the same problem. You see, Interlacing is a 1930's compression system that basically halves the resolution of anything that moves. Your TV has to filter the image before its shown, and as you've seen, no filtering is perfect.

    If you need really, really good deinterlacing, you'll need to buy an expensive external scaler. Or, cheaper and better still, avoid interlacing entirely by having your Xbox modded and performing a few tweaks on it to output Progressive pictures over a Component cable. This will let just about any Xbox game run in 480p mode - in other words, the 1930s interlacing system will be completely bypassed and you will get a much sharper image.

    To confirm that it's the deinterlacer, have you tried looking closely at the menus from a Digital TV decoder or DVD player connected over the same input?
     
  3. JamieBee

    JamieBee
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    934
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    As I watch DVDs through my XBox I put a DVD in and even scrolling through the menu on the front screen gives me the same problem. As there is only output/input to the xbox im a bit restricted in how to resolve it.

    As I spend nearly £900 on the TV I didnt think I would have to check this out with Toshiba beforehand.

    A friend of mine has a Sony KLV-L32M1 and he says he has no probs at all using his Xbox. I am not too keen on the look of that model so are there any others that anyone can recommend ? Would I have call manufacturer before I buy to check the refresh rate ?
     
  4. peahead

    peahead
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    2,842
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    St.helens
    Ratings:
    +276
    Your Toshiba 32WL56 if i remember correctly has a response time of 10ms which is one of the quickest going so you shouldnt be getting that much bluring if any.Have you tryed a different console ps2 maybe to see if it happens with that and what connection are you useing for your xbox.
     
  5. SIDEARM

    SIDEARM
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sounds like your problem is being exacerbated by the poor quality feed you are using. I take it when you say scart you mean the scart converter that fits on the end of your composite cable (red,white and yellow)? This is a really low quality cable and may be a large part of your problem. If you can you should do what Lyris suggested and output in 480p. If you cant then at least buy an RGB enabled scart cable for your xbox, im sure this would improve matters.

    As others have said its unlikely that the response time of the panel is to blame as I have been told that panels under 16ms are unlikely to cause serious blurring, certainly not enough to become distracting.
     
  6. JamieBee

    JamieBee
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    934
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    Just the normal connection. The standard cable you get with your xbox going into the 3 slots in the side of the TV (red yellow and white cables).
     
  7. SIDEARM

    SIDEARM
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    As I thought - that cable is evil it gives the lowest quality feed possible to your tv. Its like buying a ferrari and then trying to put chip fat in the petrol tank. Try a better quality cable, you wont regret it.
     
  8. peahead

    peahead
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    2,842
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    St.helens
    Ratings:
    +276
    If you do buy a xbox rgb scart lead make sure its the official microsoft one as most 3rd party one are poop.
     
  9. JamieBee

    JamieBee
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    934
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
  10. peahead

    peahead
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    2,842
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    St.helens
    Ratings:
    +276
    Yep thats the one you should notice a difference with it.
     
  11. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    10,213
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Glasgow, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,310
    Yes, that will make a huge, huge difference. Your problem is probably coming from a mixture of Deinterlacing and Comb Filtering. The RGB SCART cable will give a much cleaner image to the TV to make Deinterlacing easier, and will completely remove the need for Comb Filtering.
     
  12. JamieBee

    JamieBee
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    934
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    Thanks a lot - you have been an immense help. I am so surprised that all the ppl I have bored so far with this problem on the phone and in shops have not come up with relatively cheap solution. Even the ppl who I bought it from who could have ended up losing £900 if they refunded me.

    One last thing - why is it my pal with the Sony LCD who uses standard XBox cable has no blur problem at all ? One of you earlier said my Tosh TV has a 10ms refresh rate ?
     
  13. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Messages:
    453
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +40
    I have the same Sony model as your friend......but I certainly wouldn't say my Xbox provided a suitable picture via composite... I recently bought this RGB lead from Play and find it gives a very good picture whilst it's connected to one of the RGB-enabled SCARTs. But, plug into the non-RGB-enabled SCART socket and the picture is noticeably inferior with a fuzziness which is typical of pretty much every composite signal I've seen.
     
  14. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    10,213
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Glasgow, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,310
    My own Sony LCD WEGA has a very, very, very good comb filter. That glosses over the faults that your friend would otherwise be seeing.

    Well, I guess that goes to show that employers care too much about qualifications and ignore what people's genuine interests are... I used to work at Currys and left because of the utterly feckless attitude.
     
  15. JamieBee

    JamieBee
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    934
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    I have just found out that my friend with the Sony bought the advanced xbox cable a week after he bought his xbox but has only just told me. That explains a lot. Doh !
     
  16. FaxFan2002

    FaxFan2002
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2003
    Messages:
    2,114
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Andover
    Ratings:
    +109
    If you have component in, you could get hold of the hidef M$ xbox cable - not that is something else yet again!
     
  17. JamieBee

    JamieBee
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    934
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    Right, I have purchased the XBox Advance Scart and it has resolved the problem.

    But it only resolves it if the xbox is plugged into scart socket number 1. The blurring problem remains if it is plugged into no 2. The sky decoder has now had to be moved to socket 2. Why does it make a difference which scart socket it is plugged inot ? Does it matter which order the scarts are plugged in ?

    Also, I bought a £45 scart cable for my sky the weekend but cannot really see much diff in pic quality in this one and the old one ? Am I sacrificing sky pic quality by plugging it into socket 2 and not 1 ?

    Thanks
     
  18. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    10,213
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Glasgow, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,310
    Only one socket supports RGB. The cable is sending high quality RGB video, but with the old Composite picture you were getting before "hidden behind" it. The socket that doesn't support RGB will fall back to the Composite picture.

    I never buy expensive cables, for this reason. It's the signal type you're sending that makes the difference in quality, not whether or not the cable has fancy gold plating.

    Yes. You could buy a switch box and put everything in through SCART 1 that way. SCART 2 is really more intended for use with VCRs and such.
     
  19. angelislington

    angelislington
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,539
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +235
    Or you could do what I do, and loop your Xbox through your Sky box. Works a treat and maintains the RGB signal with no worries at all.
     
  20. JamieBee

    JamieBee
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    934
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    Do you mean a scart splitter Lyris ?
    GalaxyGuy - how do you mean loop xbox in through the sky box ?
    WHat is an RGB signal ?I thought the better quality scart lead you got the better pic you got ?

    Oh dear.
     
  21. angelislington

    angelislington
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,539
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +235
    Connect your Xbox to your Sky box's VCR input and then connect another Scart cable from the TV output on the Sky box to your LCD. When you switch the Xbox on, it will pass the signal through the Sky box to your LCD.

    To answer your 2nd question. RGB is a type of video that is transferred by a Scart cable (the best type). Scart is not a video type itself, it is simply a method of transferring different video types between devices.
     
  22. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    10,213
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Glasgow, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,310
    Not really. As I said it's the signal type that makes the most difference. But, some SCART cables aren't capable of sending the higher quality RGB pictures, which might be what you're thinking of.

    Galaxyguy's suggestion is better. I don't have a Sky decoder so I don't know how they work, but going from what he's saying they can loop the signal through. In other words, plug the Sky decoder into your TV, and plug the Xbox into a SCART socket on the back of the decoder. Then, you'll be able to play your Xbox so long as your Sky decoder is plugged in, but when you turn the decoder on, your TV will switch to the output from the Sky box.
     
  23. supermackem

    supermackem
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,061
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    sunderland
    Ratings:
    +71
    You sure the vcr socket on the sky boxers are rgb im sure there composite. I would get a scart switcher box mate the joytech powered one offers not signal loss and more connections for later.
     
  24. JamieBee

    JamieBee
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    934
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    Strange that such an expensive TV needs an advanced scart cable just to play xbox games properly when my half the price CRT TV displayed the games fine ?

    Sorry to keep asking questions but to recap..........

    To get perfect picture on my xbox AND Sky decoder I must connect the xbox in via the decoder into scart no 1 OR buy a scart splitter. If I do this also , the xbox will override the sky when turned on so I cant watch sky inbetween betting killed on xbox ?
     
  25. peahead

    peahead
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    2,842
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    St.helens
    Ratings:
    +276
    jamiebee no1 and no2 scart sockets on your tv both accept rgb signals you shouldnt have to loop your xbox through your sky box when you plug your skybox into scart no2 you have to go into the sky box setting menu and change it to rgb.
     
  26. JamieBee

    JamieBee
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    934
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    Conflicting views on the scart no 1 and 2 sockets then. Someone said tge opposite the other day. The manual does say that no 1 is meant to be for decoders and no 2 is meant to be for media recorders so there must be a diff between the 2 sockets surely ?

    My xbox only works blur-free as i said before, when it is plugged into scart no 1. I have done the xbox loop through sky it is just a bit annoying that i cant watch sky while the xbox is on.

    Is there any way I can get a better picture for sky on my tv ? It is connected via normal scart cable but I find the picture not quite 100 sharp. My 15" CRT TV upstairs picture is crystal clear. Are the pic qualities generally better than the LCDs ? Anything I can do to improve the pic downstairs ?

    I read in magazines and hear from ppl that better quality scart leads make a difference but then someone on here (I cant remember who) said they dont make a blind bit of difference.
     
  27. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    10,213
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Glasgow, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,310
    Ah, well there's the irony. Your old CRT was probably just masking out the faults as well as the picture detail, though.

    From what you're saying, SCART 1 is the socket that supports RGB for you:

    Have you considered a switch box? Argos do a fairly good one for a really cheap price: http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/s...talogId=3151&productId=126059&clickfrom=image
     
  28. Pug72

    Pug72
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    1,982
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Hereford
    Ratings:
    +275
    You could always tune a spare channel to Sky and watch that whilst leaving the xbox on.
     
  29. pjskel

    pjskel
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2004
    Messages:
    2,676
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +124
    Turning the Sky box on whilst the Xbox is on won't turn the Xbox off, just the signal ddisplayed on the TV will be that of the STB (set-top box). So, rather than switching back and forth between the 2 channels on the TV, just turn the STB off and on when required. It's not a major problem.
    As others have said, if you prefer to do the switching on the TV, then spend a few more quid on a SCART switch box - Belkin/OneForAll/and others do them, and will solve your problem, esp if you introduce a DVDR into the mix a few months or so down the line.
    Personally, for £900 I'd take the TV back and tell Toshiba to let me know when they bother doing 2 full RGB SCARTs and not a half-arsed 1 full and 1 composite - in this day and age!
     
  30. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    10,213
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Glasgow, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,310
    Even better, take it back and say "Take one of these 1980s connectors off the back of my set and give me more Component and HDMI, and also ONE SCART socket in case I need it" ;)
     

Share This Page

Loading...