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LCD or Plasma ? HD Ready ?...Help !!!

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by Stu247, Jun 15, 2005.

  1. Stu247

    Stu247
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    Good afternoon ladies and gents.. :hiya:

    What should I buy ?? benefits of a Plasma over a LCD apart from cost per inch?

    I would like either a 32" & 37"

    This looks good value......

    http://www.tvandvideodirect.com/product.php?xProd=1745&xSec=30

    but have read mixed reports........

    Is it truly HD Ready....

    I don't want to shell out 1k odd for a screen only to wish I had bought a HD ready one a couple of years down the road..

    Cheers.

    Stu.
     
  2. Phil from 62

    Phil from 62
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    Hi Stu :hiya:

    I'm no expert...but on visiting my Local expert AV store (not a high street chain) they tell me the decision between LCD v's Plasma is more about screen size requirments than technology as generally speaking the two technologies don't cross size boundries in any great way.

    Basically upto 32" consider LCD over that consider plasma...sounds logical.
    (I believe there are a couple of 32" Plasmas, and some 37" and maybe larger LCD's...but these are not the norm or common place...yet anyway).

    I would say that the average home would not need anything bigger than a 32" screen (otherwise it will take over the room and you will always be sitting too close and therfore never happy with the picture)...maybe that helps your decision.
     
  3. Stu247

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    Cheers Phil..

    Yeah, I think 32" would be sufficient for my needs (will get the tape measure out when I get home) as I currently have a 28" CRT and that is ok.

    I like the look of the Tosh and the fact that it is HD Ready (supposedly).
    The price seems hard to beat also.

    I would welcome peoples view on this set !!

    Basically I'm looking for something that's decent picture wise to link my Marantz DVD & Amp to, not running sky at present only Freewiew and Topup TV.
    But would like a screen that is future proof (ish) if I go Sky HD, connect a Media Centre PC etc.

    Cheers.
    Stu.
     
  4. ash

    ash
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    I'm after something like you, a 32" or 37", unsure if I should go for lcd or plasma. Dontw ant to spend much as well, you can get a good samsun 32" lcd, for 1k under it hink.
     
  5. Phil from 62

    Phil from 62
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    There are a lot of good screens out there.

    Don't forget you get what you pay for generally speaking.

    I'm personaly looking at either the Loewe Xelos or Concept 32" models....maybe the new Philips with the Ambilight.....don't know yet.

    But look around...and I would avoid Hi Street shops like Curry's etc.
     
  6. chedmaster

    chedmaster
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    the tosh is hd ready - you cannot have an HDMI input without HDCP - its part of the technology. DVI comes with or without HDCP and this is where confusion lies.
     
  7. expat

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    Don't forget the issue of aspect ratio! Does your 28" CRT have a 4:3 or 16:9 format? If it's 4:3 and you watch a lot of programming in that format, you might be unhappy with a 32" 16:9 display. Either you'll have to display the 4:3 signal in a stretched format to fill the wider screen, or you'll have to live with dark bars on both side of the picture, which will be considerably smaller than what you have now!!
    Since I enjoy old films on DVD and newer wide-screen films and I don't want 4:3 signals to be smaller on my future display than they are on my current 28" CRT, I have decided that a 42" 16:9 display would be just right. That works out to a picture height of approx. 21 in. (53 cm.), which is a bit bigger than the visible picture on a 28" 4:3 display.
     
  8. TurningFrench

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    Stu247,

    If you look on Toshiba's web sites (.co.uk, .fr, .ch), you'll notice that the
    27/32/37WL56 range of LCD TVs are not described as being HD Ready.

    There is a good reason for this - strictly speaking they are not. To be HD
    Ready, a set must accept HD input via 1. Analogue YPbPr (component) and
    2. HDMI or DVI, both of which must support HDCP. The Tosh lacks the analogue
    input. See eicta.org for details of HD Ready.

    Confusingly, Toshiba's Swiss site does carry the following image/logo alongside
    the WL56 range

    [​IMG]

    which is misleading and is a bit of a mickey take.

    Why Toshiba has seen fit to miss off the component input beats me. I've read
    that the upcoming 32/37/42WLT58 series of sets will qualify for the HD Ready
    logo, as they will have 2 HDMI ports, 3 SCART sockets and component connectors.
    When they will be in the shops is anybody's guess.
     
  9. tulloch2003

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  10. DanH

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    The tosh is HD ready, because it has the HDMI socket. What TurningFrench is saying, is that although it is technically HD ready, Toshiba are not allowed to put the "HD Ready" logo on it, as it hasnt got seperate component connections.

    Dont worry about it tulloch, you will still be able to watch HD via the HDMI, but it could prove to be a pain in the future when more and more gadgets want to share the same socket.
     
  11. tulloch2003

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    Ok cheers for info DanH :thumbsup: . It's a bummer about no component connections mind, and only 1 HDMI socket. I can cope without them I hope. :confused:

    Regards Tulloch
     
  12. DaveBUK

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    I think eicta relaxed the conditions and allowed LCD's to be HD ready if the TV could use the VGA input for the component analogue input. Has anyone confirmed that the WL56 series can take component via VGA ? If so then I think they can use the logo.

    Regards

    Dave
     
  13. ash

    ash
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    Stu, have you made your mind up yet?
    If you buy a 32" lcd, you could spend the rest of the money on a good dvd recorder etc.
     
  14. dave.g

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    So whats been decided, on HD readiness? Im looking at a 32"LCD thats HD ready and if itll do just that, it looks a good bet for me under 1k.
    Cheers
     
  15. Stu247

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    Nope....not yet !!

    Now i'm not sure if a 32" will be big enough :confused:

    I will be viewing it at around 10' at the most, currently have a 28" widescreen which is ok but would like bigger.

    Hmmmm.....

    The Samsung is tempting, i'd prob go for the freeview version to replace the old Nokia 9850T I have, but reading the posts about the Samsung no one has really said that the picture is good with freeview (although there are a lot of posts in that thread !! :eek: )

    My viewing will be split 75 % freeview 20 % DVD and 5% looking at it on the wall and thinking how nice it looks :D


    Stu.
     
  16. ash

    ash
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  17. Digitised

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    i just want to make a point about HD connections.



    Component is relaltively popular since its supported by most plasma TVs and DVD players, its also supported by some LCD panels as well.
    Lots of people are put off by TVs that dont have component inputs, even when the sets have HDMI and DVI.

    This is madness, because component isnt true HD. Component is only analogue and does not offer a pure digital picture or connection. The future is in HDMI, and DVI is also just as good as long as your carrying your sound inputs properly.

    HDMI combines digital picture and 7.1 sound (i believe HDMI 1.0 didnt, but 1.1 is now the standard) This is an all in one connection and is instantly recognised without messy setups or tuning.

    DVI has come from PC graphics cards. It allowed high resolution pc signals to avoid being fed through analogue conversions+reconversions meaning all of the PQ was left intact.
    DVI is HDCP compliant, but it doesnt carry sound, so as long as you are using optical outputs into a home cinema reciever you are all set to go.


    Component will be phased out within the next few years since it was never really ready for the job, its messy to setup and is a lottery with equipment used (i can only get a pink screen with my TV and DVD). HDMI and DVI will talk a digital TVs language and make life easier.
    There is also no PQ loss, unlike component so the picture is much smoother and colours are much richer (my PC linked to TV has shown me how nice it will look).


    I say avoid component, and look to invest in a decent home cinema amplifier.
    There are denon models that have 3-4 HDMI inputs which can be fed into your TV through either HDMI or DVI.
    They also have support for something like 5 component inputs, 7 optical inputs 10 SVHS... its just one crazy big adapter and best of all it will sync your sound with your picture.
    Its the ony guaranteed way to get perfect sync, simply running picture to TV and sound optically to an amp nearly always lags. And its annoying.Very.
     
  18. chedmaster

    chedmaster
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    im sorry to say that some of what you have said is rubbish. component is a very very good medium to transfer video, and is not just a stop gap, it IS the american SCART socket, hence the name "euro AV" for scart. Composite is absolute rubbish, has that been phased out? no. fact is any unit with HDMI shipped into Europe is subject to an extra duty, component will be around for the long term. Also things like HD CRTs, another technology yet to surface properly in Europe, will probably produce better pictures using Component, because the D/A converters in the TV may not be as good as in your dvd player.

    Most AV amps at the moment that have HDMI, have 2 in and 1 out. Not really that much use (HTPC, HD DVD, BLU RAY, SKY HD, FREEVIEW HD if it ever happens, XBOX 360, PS3).

    Also the AV amps with this feature do not sync picture with sound, they do have manual time delays (most) but this is far from automatic.

    Finally DVI is not HDCP compatible by nature, so some people may be tricked into buying a dvi screen that isnt hd ready.
     
  19. DanH

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    That Denon amp you mention costs nearly twice the money for say the Hitachi 32LD7200. Not an option for most people. I should think that less expensive models will start to surface over this year though.

    Also, the Xbox360 is only going to come with component connections, and possibly VGA. So an analogue input that can carry HD resolutions isnt as useless as you may think.
    People who already have "decent" DVD players with component output need not buy a HDMI player either (tying up maybe their only digital socket) and the picture quality difference is minimal. Its been mentioned on this forum numerous times that half decent non-upscaling component decks offer better picture quality than HDMI players in the same price bracket, and also back to back testing of more expensive players using both their component outputs and HDMI output has resulted in sod all difference between them. If the equipment is of high quality, as you would expect with some expensive gear, then the analogue output can easily be right up there with HDMI/DVI.

    Digital connections are certainly taking over for the future, but as of right now, it makes no sense whatsoever for TV manufacturers to leave them off the spec imho.
     
  20. Digitised

    Digitised
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    ched -
    I apologise if you though i was slating component, i personally feel it has no future as a connection. It only exists because current hardware (based on US specifications) uses it to output HD and progreessive scan signals. The market for progressive scan DVD players has been saturated with this connection, which i think will slow the progression onto digital connections.
    It probably will be around for the longterm because manufacturers will have to support it for a good 5 years, now that they have released thousands of component related products.

    BUT it will be phased out of new models of DVD players (HD, Blu-ray, consoles etc)
    TVs and amps will definately still support it (even if its by seperate adapters).
    TV manufacturers are already opting out of using component inputs, check philips front end LCD and Plasma TVs, they are DVI and HDMI i have to use an adapter to connect via component.

    Regarding A/V amps, i m perfectly aware that amps currently do not offer much support for HDMI or DVI. But by 06, there will be many models available and more on the way as the craze catches on.
    Im personally waiting for an amp to be made (mine is 7 years old) and when one comes along that fits my need im ordereing it immediately.
    The fact is we are just around the corner, it is also THE ONLY way to get your sound to sync. It might not be automatic currently (i havent had to set one up yet so ill assume you are right and it is manual). The denon is ideal but yes its £3500.
    Soon there will be competition and lower prices, im just patiently waiting and checking.

    DVI on HDTVs is normally HDCP its just something you make a point of checking before you buy it. Im perfectly aware there are 4 + types of DVI connection, i had a job ordering my DVI lead the other week and had to fish through a page of DVI jargon to get the right one (plain DVI-I if you ever need to rig up PC-TV).

    DanH-
    The denon amp was just an example of technology i wasnt suggesting to go buy it lol (sorry, i didnt make it clear), yes i agree wait till that tech reaches the mainstream and buy it for £1k or less.
    I dont disagree, that SD (standard definition) signals from DVD players, equals that of an HDMI or DVI output player, BUT it will make a significant difference when it comes to HD material.

    You are more than welcome to use your high quality 576p DVD player with component next year, but i will be investing in HDdvd or Blu-ray. And i recommend personally using HDMI or DVI for this material. This is only a year away, and im only suggesting people invest safely rather than opting for inferior connections.
    What works now works now, im loving my £100 DVD (RGB interlaced) but i accept that its the best i can get in the uk atm. I havent splashed out £800 on a dvd player that will be outdated next year.

    When the XBOX 360 was announced as supporting YUV only, there was uproar as well as jokes about the irony of xbox being 'THE HD CONSOLE!' (analogue only!!)
    It didnt go down well at all, im worried im going to get a pink screen like i do with my dvd player when i hook up in november.


    As far as digital dvd players go, yes they are pricy, abut there just isnt many around compared to component. I wouldnt bother getting one because they dont offer anything for the extra money, other than a guaranteed connection in my case.
     
  21. DanH

    DanH
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    I never mentioned anything about next year. I was talking about people that own existing equipment, and want to get the best from it. To get the best image quality from dvd, players need a component connection for progressive scan output. (Or a HDMI player, which is a useless expenditure for reasons already given)

    As for HD-DVD / BluRay, your only choice will be HDMI or DVI (HDCP), as there is no way the MPAA etc are going to allow output from non copyright protected component outputs.

    As i already stated, digital connections are certainly the way forward, thats obvious, but for the next 12 months at least, its imho unforgiveable for manufacturers to not include them on their supposed latest and greatest sets. Some are already starting to backtrack and offer them on their latest range this year thanks to all the poor feedback they received over their last models. So it seems they are in agreement too.

    As for your pink screen issue, if it was me, i wouldnt rest untill id found out what was causing it. Despite what you said earlier about it being a lottery with equipment used, it couldnt be further from the truth. Component is merely a connection method, just like scart. You either have a problem with the source (did you get the chance to try another player?) or the display or the cable.
     
  22. Digitised

    Digitised
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    hey dan

    My original advice was to people looking to purchase an HDTV, i take it you are not in that category therefore you can ignore most of my comments regarding component/digital connections. Im really only helping people out, by pointing them towards in the right direction since so many ppl are convinced (at a jargon/salestalk level) that component is necessary and shouldnt be missed. I mean there are people who arent buying decent tVs just because they dont have comp. inputs despite their DVI/hdmi sockets.

    Digital is clearly the future and its by far the most user friendly. Most consumers dont read up before they place themselves in the hands of untrained/undertrained sales people. 98% of TVs for sale in the UK arent HD compatible, and our market is dominated by high resolution flat panels, and they are being sold with little effort to ensure that the consumer realises their future compatibility. The HD ready tag is slowly getting out (ive not seen them in my store so im assuming its going to be a while for retailers to become fully aware, and train their staff accordingly).



    Regarding my pink screen issue-

    i have a horrible process to connect my DVD player to my tv...

    DVD ----> component---> component>VGA--->VGA>DVI---->TV


    So i have to basically convert twice to get a DVI-A (analogue) signal, but it will support progressive scan.
    My Tv is a phillips 9986 LCD, and a cheap samsung P345 dvd player.
    After 1 hour of fiddling with TV options, DVD player options, lead combinations and different VGA to DVI converters i got an image.
    But it was pink, and no matter what i do it wont display normal.

    My pc runs to my TV through DVI-I (digital) and gives a perfect picture, very sharp and practically all motion blur is negated.
    So i know my TV is fine, and the socket isnt the problem, but my DVD or the lead is giving the fault.

    Im not actually too bothered since the RGB is so damn good anyway, i only get image problems on consoles since the interlacing is exaggerated by my TVs PP2. Consoles are just nasty in europe full stop, so i dont expect miracles in that department.
    Im just glad in 12 months time everything will be digital and not need hour long tuning setups, everything will talk to each other and just work when u plug it in.
     
  23. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    I always thought that Philips TVs generally not having Component inputs was because of them being a European manufacturer?

    I love Component. It gives great image quality, with a light coating of noise on saturated colours. I'd of course use HDMI given the choice, but in reality it seems to be more of a Copy Protection enabler and All-in-one-cable solution than a picture quality upgrade. Component's been neutered by the paranoid copy protection crowd... I mean, I can accept HD-DVD or Blu Ray only outputting HD over a protected connection, but upscaling DVD players not outputting pseudo-HD pictures over Component seems bizarre to me.
     
  24. DanH

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    Im actually in the process of looking for an HD ready TV. Dont get me wrong, if i saw a TV i really wanted, and it was great in all areas except it was missing component input, it probably wouldnt be a deal breaker. I do still feel however that component input has its uses (High Definition content included) and adds flexibility regarding connections. Lets face it, the more connectors on the back of our tellys the better.

    On a related note, as specified by EICTA, for a TV to qualify for the "HD Ready" logo, it must accept a minimum of 720p/1080i 50 and 60hz via HDMI/DVI(HDCP) and seperate Analogue YPbPr.

    Originally, i believe the requirement was via component inputs, but has since changed to include VGA with a suitable adapter. Nevertheless, TVs have to accept a HD signal through both a digital connection and a seperate analogue one. Which is why Philips is including component connections on the upcoming pf9830 range, so they can slap the "HD Ready" logo all over it. Toshiba are in the same boat with 32WLT58 etc.

    The digital connections are the important ones of course, for reasons you have stated, all im saying is surely its better to have the option of component inputs too. Not only does it cost the manufacturer sod all to implement it, it also earns them the right to use the logo, and is ultimately better for the consumer.

    Id definately give another component player/cable a try if its at all possible. You might be surprised by the jump in quality from an RGB interlaced picture. As your LCD is progressive in nature, feeding it a progressive signal should prove to be a lot better as your telly wont have to de-interlace anything for a start.
     
  25. ianh64

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    I have never heard such a load of rubbish. The whole thread is full of garbage and misleading information.
     
  26. DanH

    DanH
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    Could you point out exactly what is misleading? It may be of help to clarify things surely, rather than just saying the whole thread is full of garbage. If i have posted anything that is misleading, i would certainly like to be set straight so i dont i dont go somewhere else and say the same thing.
     
  27. Digitised

    Digitised
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    DanH -

    as i was saying as long as a decent TV has DVI or HDMi support you shouldnt have any problems, and i dont see why it cant be labelled as HD ready.
    My plan (which i obviously would recommend, unless i hear of any complications) would be to rig up a multi input A/V reciever, similar to the denon.

    This way you can input multiple component/DVI/HDMI sources as well as any optical leads. Surely this sorts out any problems for multiple connections or unsupported sockets. You are covered from all bases and will have a much tidier rig with no lead switching + the ability to sync sound.



    Ian -

    sorry i dont understand where im misleading people?
    Ive only go by what i know, or what sources i believe to be trustworthy (i cannot personally test all setups and connections for multiple models myself) from what i understand and have read everything ive said is accurate.
    If you have another opinion, or information for me to read id be glad to view it.
     
  28. chedmaster

    chedmaster
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    digitised dont post your opinion as fact,

    FACT: component will be around for ages, it is the analogue HD transfer method. It is inexcusable to leave it off an HD ready product. Thats like making a Stereo amp, with only Digital coaxial inputs, and no Left and Right RCA inputs, LUDICROUS!!!

    The denon amp is NOT the answer, as i doubt very much there will be any amp that upscales to HDMI and/or DVI because of HDCP and stuff like that.
     
  29. ianh64

    ianh64
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    I partially retract my previous statement. chedmaster's previous post made me realise that I was misinterpreting peoples comments as fact rather than just an opinion.

    There are alot of posts on these forums, not just this one individual post, that are either factually incorrect, over simplified, misinformed, hearsay, or just wishful thinking that are being told as fact. People are making decisions based upon what they read in these forums, often on one individual post. I have critisised external sources, such as magazines, in the past for providing misleading information. I don't want us to go the same way, intentional or not.

    This of course is just my own opinion.

    -Ian
     
  30. zerolight

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    I recently moved from 42" Plasma to 37" LCD and haven't looked back. I had a Panasonic TH42PA20 and switched to a Philips 37PF9986. It's a stunning TV, and pixel plus 2 makes everything look superb. TV is much better than it had been on Plasma, my Xbox looks great through RGB Scart, my chipped Xbox looks great through component with XBMC running at 1080i, DVDs look great. And its ready for 1280x720p on Xbox360 at the end of the year. Top stuff. :)

    Incidentally I have no problems getting a component input on my PF9986 via the DVI>VGA>Component adaptor setup. No problems what-so-ever. It will only accept a progressive component input however, so if you try to feed it a regular component input you won't get anything displaying.
     

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