LCD Motion Blur/Ghosting how much does it bother you?

M

mawilliams

Guest
I have recently purchased my first LCD TV and am not personally satisfied with the performance. Firstly the contrast ratio compared to CRTs is pretty poor and the whites are very glaring. Also due to the lack of High Def at the moment the quality of TV and most DVDs can be pretty poor. Now the last two I can live with, because I know that High Def will help when it becomes more readily available. But one thing I can't live with is the motion blurring! It drives me crazy even a simple camera pan and I'm not talking about a particularly fast one causes a blur, also a person moving on screen can also cause them to blur. This quickly becomes very annoying. Now I have a Mirai 527v200 27inch and this (apparently) has a 6.5ms response time, which is pretty much as fast as you can get on the market today. So if the response time is true, then I feel that LCDs have a long way to go to catch up with CRTs!

Personally I am not happy with my purchase and am thinking about going back CRT until LCD response times improve.

Any more thoughts on response times and if it really bothers you or not?
 

Br0ken

Distinguished Member
I've never experienced any motion blur whether i'm watching a movie, tv or playing a game on the 360. So to me its a non issue.
 
J

jamesdrake185

Guest
i have the same model as you and have never had motion blur or ghosting of any sorts. not calling you a liar but just think you may need to set the tv up better, have you adjusted the back light and played with the settings
 
M

mawilliams

Guest
Hi James,

Yeah I have had the problem since receiving the set, you actually gave me some advice on the Mirai thread about changing the settings which I have done. I have turned my Backlight down to 2 and turned off all the advance settings. But still notice quite alot of blurring and it's really bugging me, maybe it is a fault with my TV?
 

dan54

Novice Member
Non-issue to me as well-I often read posts on here about problems like yours and just dont get it- I get no smearing,black levels are fine,no "blocking" etc.Maybe people just dont get the settings right but having said that I have seen a couple of lousy lcds which no matter how hard I've tried to tweak just cant get a good pic.
 
D

danjones

Guest
I also experienced a lot of ghosting on the same mirai set as you but after i had played with the settings i don't get any and have a great picture.
 

Nielo TM

Novice Member
I have recently purchased my first LCD TV and am not personally satisfied with the performance. Firstly the contrast ratio compared to CRTs is pretty poor and the whites are very glaring. Also due to the lack of High Def at the moment the quality of TV and most DVDs can be pretty poor. Now the last two I can live with, because I know that High Def will help when it becomes more readily available. But one thing I can't live with is the motion blurring! It drives me crazy even a simple camera pan and I'm not talking about a particularly fast one causes a blur, also a person moving on screen can also cause them to blur. This quickly becomes very annoying. Now I have a Mirai 527v200 27inch and this (apparently) has a 6.5ms response time, which is pretty much as fast as you can get on the market today. So if the response time is true, then I feel that LCDs have a long way to go to catch up with CRTs!

Personally I am not happy with my purchase and am thinking about going back CRT until LCD response times improve.

Any more thoughts on response times and if it really bothers you or not?
First of all, LCDs and PDPs have higher contrast ratio then CRTs and 6.5ms response time is utter bull. I think its true response time varies from 10-20ms as with all LCDs. Some can even peak at 40ms lol

Save up some £££ and get a PDP lol (unless you want to use the display as PC monitor/HTPC)
 

drykloke

Active Member
Different people respond to images in different ways.

Some people see rainbows with DLP projectors. I don't, but that doesn't mean that the 'rainbows' problem doesn't exist.

Some people are very sensitive to 'motion blur' with LCDs. Unfortunately, I happen to be one of them. Other people don't notice it, or get used to it, and are quite happy with their LCD sets. You get to meet them on the LCD forum.

I suspect that tweaking and changing settings helps only a little for those who are 'very sensitive', and they end up hanging out on the plasma/CRT forum. (but what do I know, I'm only a medical man.)
 

mushroom1

Novice Member
Lay off the mushrooms ;)


Have you got "good" scarts seated firmly i had this and it was down to a loose scart pin!
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
well i consider myself a bugger to please. and i must admit, i have LOOKEd for motion blur as much as i can, but just dont see it on my Tosh WLT66 or my old Hyundai Q321.

Am not saying it aint there, but i have played some pretty high octane games on the 360 and watched a lot of movies.

ave you tried going into a decent AV shop and looking at some of the premium LCD TV's prperly set up on display??

if say a sony X2000 with hi def shows you ghosting, then yes maybe lcd tech isnt for you (and i need my eyes testing) or if not maybe your panel is pants (hope not i got a mirai for my folks for chrimbo) or it is faulty/not set up right.

or it could be not motion blur as such, but pants mpeg artifacts you are seeing over standard def tv? (not trying to be patronising just trying to come up with other options)
 

andrewfee

Novice Member
Firstly the contrast ratio compared to CRTs is pretty poor and the whites are very glaring.
This is caused by having the backlight set too high (don't adjust contrast, it works differently from a CRT) turn it right down and you'll find that not only are the whites tamed, but black levels should improve a lot too.

LCDs have a higher contrast ratio than most calibrated CRTs, but contrast ratio is only the difference between how bright white is, and how dark black is, it doesn't really give you an idea of how good the black levels are at all.

Also due to the lack of High Def at the moment the quality of TV and most DVDs can be pretty poor. Now the last two I can live with, because I know that High Def will help when it becomes more readily available.
This sounds to me like either your DVD player isn't very good, your TV doesn't handle SD sources well, or both. DVDs should look great on an LCD. Even Freeview looks excellent on my Toshiba 37WLT68

But one thing I can't live with is the motion blurring! It drives me crazy even a simple camera pan and I'm not talking about a particularly fast one causes a blur, also a person moving on screen can also cause them to blur. This quickly becomes very annoying. Now I have a Mirai 527v200 27inch and this (apparently) has a 6.5ms response time, which is pretty much as fast as you can get on the market today. So if the response time is true, then I feel that LCDs have a long way to go to catch up with CRTs!
There is no standard measurement for response time, which basically means that one manufacturer's 6ms is not the same as another's. Older panels in particular would maybe peak quite low, but averaged a lot higher.

Budget LCDs like your Mirai are very likely to be using old panels, which explains the poor performance. The latest LCD panels have virtually eliminated this problem now, especially the new Toshiba models with 100Hz processing and Philips LCDs with ClearLCD. (however that only works with SD material, not HD, and I would personally avoid Philips) Samsung sets also have 100Hz processing, but I've not seen it, so I can't say how well it works. (I wouldn't expect it to be as good though)

Personally, I would avoid cheap LCDs - the majority of LCD displays out there, in my opinion, are awful. Unlike CRTs where even the cheapest sets should be able to produce a half-decent image, cheap LCDs are unwatchable if you ask me. Currently I would only recommend the latest Sony LCDs, or the Toshiba WLT68s. (the Toshiba ones being better overall in my opinion, though the BRAVIAs have better black levels and viewing angles)
 

BYF

Well-known Member
Motion blur bugs me big time during camera panning espcially on HD as its more noticeable.

I hate the effect that all the detail is blurred until the camera stops panning which is hideous when trying to watch fast sports or playing games with agressive panning.

Ive tried many top makes from sony, pansonic, toshiba and samsung and they all suffer from it, i seem to notice the effect a lot.

Im still not convinced that LCD or Plasma will be the technology of the HD era, for me personally both technologies are not up to the job, yet ;) and still well over priced.
 

dan54

Novice Member
Blimey BYF I think you expect to much-If I move my head aggressively my vision goes blurred let alone any sort of tv:eek:
 

Nielo TM

Novice Member
Motion blur bugs me big time during camera panning espcially on HD as its more noticeable.

I hate the effect that all the detail is blurred until the camera stops panning which is hideous when trying to watch fast sports or playing games with agressive panning.

Ive tried many top makes from sony, pansonic, toshiba and samsung and they all suffer from it, i seem to notice the effect a lot.

Im still not convinced that LCD or Plasma will be the technology of the HD era, for me personally both technologies are not up to the job, yet ;) and still well over priced.
Don’t like LCD much either but I have no choice lol. However, PDP are very good motion handling.
 
M

mawilliams

Guest
Thanks for your responses guys. It looks like I'm the odd one out here. :(

This is caused by having the backlight set too high (don't adjust contrast, it works differently from a CRT) turn it right down and you'll find that not only are the whites tamed, but black levels should improve a lot too.
I actually have my backlight set down to 1 and still think the whites are very bright.

This sounds to me like either your DVD player isn't very good, your TV doesn't handle SD sources well, or both. DVDs should look great on an LCD. Even Freeview looks excellent on my Toshiba 37WLT68
I hope my DVD player isn't rubbish, I have a Sony DVP-NS76H and a high quality HDMi cable.

There is no standard measurement for response time, which basically means that one manufacturer's 6ms is not the same as another's. Older panels in particular would maybe peak quite low, but averaged a lot higher.
Yeah I had read that what was the case, wish there was a way to find out.

I think the only was to solve this is to have a look at a top end LCD TV and see if it is me or my Mirai, if it's me then I'll shutup. :suicide:
 
M

mawilliams

Guest
Motion blur bugs me big time during camera panning espcially on HD as its more noticeable.

I hate the effect that all the detail is blurred until the camera stops panning which is hideous when trying to watch fast sports or playing games with agressive panning.

Ive tried many top makes from sony, pansonic, toshiba and samsung and they all suffer from it, i seem to notice the effect a lot.

Im still not convinced that LCD or Plasma will be the technology of the HD era, for me personally both technologies are not up to the job, yet ;) and still well over priced.
:) Yeah thank the lord I'm not the only one! Looks like drykloke is correct and some people notice it more than others. Maybe LCD's are just not for me. :(
 

rounddodger

Standard Member
Don't really notice any ghosting on my 40X2000. Especially with HD content.
 

BName

Banned
I dont see what the big deal with motion blur is either, i cant figure out if its the people who dont see it or those who do who have eye probs lol j/k. All i can think of its cause people step up to larger lcd tvs from a smaller crt tv and the difference between the tvs is to much for some untill its got used to ?
 
D

danjones

Guest
Do you have problems with ghosting through HDMI on the mirai as well?
 
J

jamesdrake185

Guest
This is caused by having the backlight set too high (don't adjust contrast, it works differently from a CRT) turn it right down and you'll find that not only are the whites tamed, but black levels should improve a lot too.

LCDs have a higher contrast ratio than most calibrated CRTs, but contrast ratio is only the difference between how bright white is, and how dark black is, it doesn't really give you an idea of how good the black levels are at all.


This sounds to me like either your DVD player isn't very good, your TV doesn't handle SD sources well, or both. DVDs should look great on an LCD. Even Freeview looks excellent on my Toshiba 37WLT68


There is no standard measurement for response time, which basically means that one manufacturer's 6ms is not the same as another's. Older panels in particular would maybe peak quite low, but averaged a lot higher.

Budget LCDs like your Mirai are very likely to be using old panels, which explains the poor performance. The latest LCD panels have virtually eliminated this problem now, especially the new Toshiba models with 100Hz processing and Philips LCDs with ClearLCD. (however that only works with SD material, not HD, and I would personally avoid Philips) Samsung sets also have 100Hz processing, but I've not seen it, so I can't say how well it works. (I wouldn't expect it to be as good though)

Personally, I would avoid cheap LCDs - the majority of LCD displays out there, in my opinion, are awful. Unlike CRTs where even the cheapest sets should be able to produce a half-decent image, cheap LCDs are unwatchable if you ask me. Currently I would only recommend the latest Sony LCDs, or the Toshiba WLT68s. (the Toshiba ones being better overall in my opinion, though the BRAVIAs have better black levels and viewing angles)
Mirai are owned by sony, and they have advanced panels if you read the spec and company informtion you wil find that they share alot of spec and technology with bravia models.
 

kulter

Standard Member
I just wanted to add up my experience to this motion blur issue.

Well I started to look for a Lcd tv and finally settled for a Sony Bravia v2000 32'.
So I brought it home and everything was fine. Motion blurring was there of course but nothing that I couldn't stand :rolleyes: There was some other kind of problem (no point of mentioning it here-it is on the v2000 anyway) so I took the tv back. Got a brand new set, hooked it up and the first thing I said when I saw it was "What The heck?"
I mean there was some crazy motion blurring that my eyes couldn't stand. I mean they did hurt after 20-30 minutes or so. With the previous set this DID NOT happen. And this was on all sources. Gears of war on moving around DID look like crap.
So I'm really ****** and thinking that my set could be faulty. So I take it back, try another set(brand new one too) and this one is messed up too. Too much motion blurring....again.
If it was just me, why could I tell so much difference between the first and the other sets? I repeat the first one was very fine indeed. After all it was the same model on the same settings.

So my thoughts on the issue are that there are sets out there that have a lot more motion blurring (despite the fact that it might be the same company and the exact same model) Don't know why this is happening.Fact is that IT IS happening and the companies are not showing the respect they should to their customers.
I mean we are all paying a heck of a high price to purchase their products, aren't we?
From my experience I can understand why two persons that own the same set have different opinions on the set motion blurring. May be it's not just the person but the tv set.
 

kulter

Standard Member
I was playing with the settings so much that I nearly tried it all. Even out of the box, on factory settings the first set did have a better picture quality(regarding motion blurring of course) And I did try the set 2 hours from one another, so the picture from the two was rather clear in my head, so I could make a fair comparison. :cool:
I don't own a Sony anymore though. After I returned the third set I just decided I had to get smth else, may be not as expensive.
My thoughts were that if I was going to pay 1500euros for smth I don't like, I might as well pay 400 euros less and get smth with a better picture rather than outstanding colors(the Sony that is) Don't get me wrong, firm the pictures was way too great. But when the camera was in motion,then... :suicide: You had to see it to beleive it. And for 1500 euros...hell no
So I compromised and got the Sammy r71 (I know but they don't sell the r73-74 in greece, part of their marketing strategy, I think:mad: )
Now the Sammy. It is what it is! A nice piece of equipment for the money you pay. Don't expect the sony image quality and colors but DO expect better LESS motion blurring and bigger contrast ratio(that means more clear whites) and details than the sony...oh and 400 euros less :D
Decisions decisions :hiya:
 

mushroom1

Novice Member
Mirai are owned by sony, and they have advanced panels if you read the spec and company informtion you wil find that they share alot of spec and technology with bravia models.

owned by Sony that's news.......Check this out

http://www.chimei.com.tw/en/about_01.asp

Here's the first bit........






Since its founding in 1959, CHIMEI Corporation has been a major player in the Petro-Chemical industry for more than 40 years. CHIMEI was the first acrylic sheet manufacturer in Taiwan. Its ACRYPOLYR was called the Acrylic Sheet of Taiwan, and the chairman Hsu became known as the “Father of Taiwan Acrylic”. Not only being one of the largest ABS, PS, AS, BR, TPE and PMMA maker in the world, CHIMEI has also ventured into different fields such as Food, Hospitality, Telecommunication, Trading, and other Hi-Tech manufacturing industries. In August of 2002, CHIMEI Optoelectronics (CMO) completed its IPO on the Taiwan Stock Exchange, and was the first listed company whinth the CHIMEI Group. CHIMEI Corporation affiliates plus IDTech has combined net sales of over 3 billion US Dollars in 2002, and has employees more than 10,000.
「Business as a Way to Pursue Fulfillment」, 「Human Management and Harmony are the most important」have been the operating principles of the whole CHIMEI Group. Over the past 40 years, Chi Mei Group has been constantly transforming and growing and consists of five profit taking ventures, and a non-profit organization.
 

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