1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

LCD looked far better than PLASMA..why?

Discussion in 'TVs' started by sloopjohnb, Aug 9, 2005.

  1. sloopjohnb

    sloopjohnb
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    In last two days I have watched HD pictures at Comet in Torquay and Exeter, quite accidently as they were side by side and I was there in readyness for buying a plasma..

    Why oh why was the lcd picture so so much better, sharper, more defined than any of the plasmas???????? :lease:

    On display Hitachi 42pd7200,pv500and pioneer-fde v philips lcd (did'nt see which one but looking at non HD other lcd's looked better.

    I thought plasma was on a par????

    I guess I may need to be redirected to old threads on the subject?
     
  2. zAndy1

    zAndy1
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    19,923
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Ratings:
    +7,034
    It was in Comet... enough said. If you think you're getting a true representation of the picture quality achievable by viewing it in Comet then you're very much mistaken. Make sure they are all connected to the same source using the same connection method, make sure they are all calibrated correctly and then you can compare.

    Andy.
     
  3. loz

    loz
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2001
    Messages:
    13,058
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,796
    The LCD will have higher resolution than the plasmas.
    So a HD feed of probably 1280x720 resolution is going to look sharper on the LCD which has higher res.
    Whereas the Plasma will only be 1024 across.

    However, it may well be a consequence of how close you were to the sets. If it was the same distance for all of them, well the LCD is going to be smaller, with a smaller dot pitch between the pixels, and hence look much sharper.

    Whereas, if you placed the sets at a distance where the plasma and the LCD both appeared to be the same size to your eye, I bet they would appear to have a similar sharpness.
     
  4. sloopjohnb

    sloopjohnb
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Fair coment re Comet but it was a HD feed and you would figure all the sets were set up as badly as each other!!! and the lcd was in a different league.

    I will try and get back and play with the set ups if I can..or try and get to a better retailer..in Devon??! especially as I want the 42" plasma for sheer size/effect for films and sport: just need to see it perform better.
     
  5. zag2me

    zag2me
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    228
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +17
    Comet now have a very good split HD feed, which actually allows you to make a nice comparrison, I also saw the negatives of Plasma using HD. LCD looked much better imo.
     
  6. thanley

    thanley
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2002
    Messages:
    225
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Orpington
    Ratings:
    +30
    Same here, I was intending to get a plasma, but each time I went to look at different models etc most of the LCD's looked a lot better ( sharper and more vibrant ) I did rquest demo's using the same setup.. samsung 850 via hdmi and my own copies of LOTR the two towers and AvP. anyways needless to say I now have a 37" LCD screen as opposed to Plasma.. I suppose its down to personal taste and beauty being in the eye of the beholder etc.. but if it looks better than what you have allready seen, then why worry about it just get one.. JMHO.. :)
     
  7. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    LCD has come on leaps and bounds in the last 6 months, Plasmas have some catching up to do in most areas.
     
  8. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,080
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +681
    In resolution terms, LCDs often beat plasmas, as LCD "pixels" can be made smaller than plasma gas cells, so you can get smaller LCD screens with higher resolution than plasmas. However in pure screen size terms, plasma usually gives you a larger screen for your money.

    However, IMHO, resolution isn't everything. There are other issues.

    LCDs usually have a slower response time than plasmas - though they are catching up. This means that fast movement (which is often missing from most HD demo material) can smear on LCDs, and look clearer on plasmas. Similarly if you are able to look at an image with detail in both dark areas and bright areas you may well notice that the blacks on LCDs aren't as dark, and don't have as much shadow detail, as plasmas, though plasmas can be a bit "noisy" in the blacks.

    For me - the better plasmas seem to deliver a greyscale and colourimetry that is closer to a decent CRT than LCDs. There is something still odd with the black levels and the gamma of LCD to me.

    I don't dispute that LCDs are developing really quickly though.

    One other word of advice - don't base any quality judgements on watching DVDs or HD clips of cartoon/CGI productions like Madagascar, The Incredibles, Monsters Inc. etc. This kind of material looks amazingly good on most LCDs and Plasmas - but the minute you see "real world" material - especially stuff with a video frame rate rather than a film one (with much faster motion) - you notice the limitations...

    Similarly - be slight wary of basing assessments of picture quality on HD demo loops. These usually contain incredibly flattering content - slow movement (though video), very saturated colours, very brightly lit scenes etc. Some do contain movement - motor racing clips on the WMV HD demo used by Sagem springs to mind - but few contain low-light, de-saturated scenes with film-grain etc.
     
  9. Caimbeul

    Caimbeul
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    734
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +26
    I too have seen the HD set-ups in comet and can say that they all ran off of on source and were distributed by some "Oyster" somthing box via DVI.

    I noticed that the LCD's were exceptional. I have just taken delivery of my 26" Sammy LCD and have run HD material through it via PC (VGA @ 720p and 1080p material). now yes i know the smaller screens have a smallet dot picth etc but when testing this (on my desk in the study) I sat at eye level about 2ft MAX from the screen and it did look very very good and even better when viewed from regular distance.

    Content viewed varied from CG (Madagascar etc) to live action with both fast and slow moving content. Picture was amazing on all counts although I will say that I agree that CG stuff looks phenominal! - One thing I did note: Some of the material did look a little ropey in places but I'm guessing that some of this id down to the bitrate at which these files play at. Some of the lower bitrate file were noticably poorer quality.

    Does anyone know what the bitrate is going to be on Sky, Blu-Ray/HD-DVD?
    WMV-HD file vary at around 6000kbps for 720p and 10,000kbps for 1080p. I thought I heard that 720p was around 15,000kbps and 1080p even higher??? maybe i was wrong?
     
  10. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    just an observation

    In the HCC magazine their latest test LCD are often getting high contrast ratio figures (>1000) whilst plasma are generally low (typically 300 / 400). Thoughts? [Measurement in HCC lab and not the useless 'claimed' figures]

    Agree greyscale and colour are LCD weak points, Plasmas for me are noisey and low res with burn suspciptibility but with both technologies are making great stides at the moment mitigating the weak areas of both technologies. For me the winner is far fro a cut and dried anymore. And then there is DLP sneaking up on the in side with it's 720p HDMI friendly RPTV that are super cool looking.
     
  11. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2001
    Messages:
    3,096
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Ratings:
    +69
    I had a play recently with the Sagem RP HDTV. Of all the HD offerings i have seen running in the local stores (all using PC for source and lcd/plasma) the Sagem offered, in my opinion by far the better image. Needless to say i have applied contrast etc settings to all.

    Steven
     
  12. Ferry

    Ferry
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    108
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Motherwell
    Ratings:
    +0
    I just bought a Sagem HD-D45 a few weeks ago and an HTPC to provide the HD material and it's sensational. I'm so, so, soooooo glad I never went for an LCD or a plasma
     
  13. Howard Pitfield

    Howard Pitfield
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Messages:
    814
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +17
    Having slugged around shops for past few weeks I've DLPed, plasmaed and LCDed. Gave up on DLP early - could see the rainbow effect straight away (it was running a HD loop).

    Plasma was OK but screens not small enough for my lounge. Saw LCD and was convinced - got a Panny and well chuffed.

    H
     
  14. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,080
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +681
    It is interesting to see how different people have different views on picture quality. I know many people are really happy with their DLPs - but I've yet to find a UK model that doesn't cause me rainbow problems, or have a distracting "screen" effect going on (the rear pro screen seems to have some odd 3D diffusing surface effect superimposed over the picture)
     
  15. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2001
    Messages:
    3,096
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Ratings:
    +69
    Ferry.

    I reckon you may be right. :)


    Stephen Neal.
    I observed this also, but did feel underlying image quality was superb, wonderfully smooth, stable and rich.

    Steven.
     
  16. colonel_butt

    colonel_butt
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Messages:
    116
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +5
    plasmas have much higher contrast ratios then lcds.
    they also generate light at the pixel points, not block it, like an lcd, so there is always more brightness and contrast with plasma.
    LCDs often look better in shops as the default settings are used. In these the brightness is turned up. IMHO LCDs look over bright and washed out. Turning up the brightness hides the contrast problems. Plasmas normally need tweaking, but once done, the picture is terrific.
    I don't buy the resolution argument at all, I have seen 800x600 LCDs look much better then some 1280x768 LCDs. Its up to the quality of the circuitry.
    If you want to see plasma and LCD side by side you need to go to somewhere which sets them up properly. I go to the Sony centre in NY on madison, and also the new Samsung centre in NY at columus circle. I think there is a panasonic one too, which I am going to try and find next time.
    Anyway at the sony centre they have all their plasma, projection and LCD screens lined up. From 32 inch (Americans don't often buy smaller then this) to 71 inch. They all look fabulous, and the new LCDs look good. But when they are together the plasmas just blow everything away. The contrast and colours just look so much more real and much more natural and comfortable to watch.
    Although if I was Mr Trump I'd bad myself the new 71 " backcreen. Its a stunner ....
     
  17. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,080
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +681
    I agree with much of what you say - though your reference to LCD should be read as "transmissive LCD" I believe.

    The best HD TV I've seen in recent times was the Sony Qualia 006 70" Rear Projection TV, which is based on "reflective LCD" technology... Yep - LCD!

    (They call it SXRD - but it is basically reflective LCD, a bit like LCoS or D-ILA)
     
  18. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,080
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +681
    Yep - agreed - but I found the resulting mix unwatchable for any long periods. The foreground screen effect was too intrusive, and those rainbows really annoyed me.
     
  19. Mike Rossi

    Mike Rossi
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi all,
    My twopence worth.
    I was in Panasonic shop in Aberdeen back in April and they had a Japanese Hi-def DVD recorder with built-in hard-drive showing on a TH42PV500 and the quality was amazing - by far the best picture I've ever seen. The clarity and detail were jaw dropping, so . . . I bought one. (re. dead pixels thread).

    It was still the best picture I've seen. (Hi-def that is).
     
  20. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,080
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +681
    Yep - Panasonic are doing a good job demoing their plasmas. That loop is a very nice bit of demo video - though it is VERY flattering video...

    The Panasonics are among the best plasma pictures I've seen - though the Qualia 006 was in a different league! (Price, size as well as quality)
     

Share This Page

Loading...