LCD / LED Framerate Stuttering (am I the only one!!???)

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs Forum' started by leereesuk, Nov 28, 2010.

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  1. leereesuk

    leereesuk
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    I've tried to explain this to people in the shop who get confused with telecine judder, screen tearing and screen flicker. It's none of them, the problem is I see the frames as individual pictures rather than a smooth video.

    Basically, some programms stutter so when the camera pans the movement is jerky (like playing a low frame rate game), others however have some kind of motion blur on them and the motion is smooth.

    Just flicking through today on freeview here's some examples, I've just picked these at random:

    The Jeremy Kyle show, looks like 150fps as when the camera pans it's smooth.
    Coronation street, smooth
    eastenders smooth
    bbc 2, rugby ireland vs argentina, smooth

    casualty, looks like 15fps because it stutters.
    eastenders iplayer, stutters
    all iplayer HD content - looks like 15fps
    gattaca, channel 5, unwatchable due to stutter
    the cube, unwatchable due to stutter (looks like 10 fps)
    All Adverts (commercials) on all channels - unwatchable due to stutter.

    All HD movies, be them, DVD, blueray or download all look like 15fps too, as does it in the cinema which is why I rarely bother to go.

    Freeview is the only service I can tolerate and only certain programs will be smooth, others will have the stutter, all Sky HD and Virgin media chanenls seem to have it meaning most modern content is unwatchable for me.

    It's present on my Panasonic CRT and My Samsung LED TV and all other TV's I've seen in showrooms or round friends. I've read hundreds of guides aswell as numerous threads on forums and tried literally everything but to no avail.

    If anybody here knows what I'm talking about please sign in, even if you don't have a solution.

    I personally think it's something to do with digital screens, but nothing to do with telecine judder or interlacing. Maybe the freeview box ads motion blur to some content when it can and that's why some programs look smooth, or maybe it's my TV's DSP that's doing it. Could it be that shows like Jeremy Kyle are sowhat low budget and filmed on analog equipment, which has motion blur filters applied when it's converted to digital? Again I have no idea and really hope someone here can help.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2010
  2. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    Sounds like are you just seeing the differences between video at 50i and film based material at 24p, hence you see this effect at the cinema.

    Some soaps (laughably) try and make themselves look less like soaps and more like film, have a film affect applied, hence the same juddering.

    Do you have a 100Hz LED TV? If so they come with settings to try and smooth the slower film type frame rates to make them more like video, this might help.

    Regards

    Phil
     
  3. leereesuk

    leereesuk
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    I can't notice the difference, I've demo'd 50hz and 100hz screens in store and they look identical.

    I brought a samsung UE40C6800QK with the Slovakian lcd panel. It's got LCD Motion but again, it's jerky with it on or off.

    So is 50i 50 frames but at half resolution (odd and even lines), I'm guessing that maybe the motion smoothing technology is picking this up and able to interpolate the frames?

    In that case maybe I should look for interlaced programs / films.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2010
  4. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    Yes you get smoother motion with 50i, but of course get around half the resolution on movement.

    I have a Panasonic TV with what they call Intelligent Frame Creation, which is Panasonic's name for creating extra frames, this becomes 24p Smooth Film when it gets a 24 frames per second signal into it from Blu-ray and this does make it very video like, which a lot of people don't prefer.

    Maybe the smoothing mode on your TV is turned off for film sources and needs to be enabled?

    Finding any films on DVD or Blu-Ray that are interlaced 50 or 60fps is going to be difficult, certainly all films are going to be 24fps (or 25fps).

    Regards

    Phil
     
  5. leereesuk

    leereesuk
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    I've got LED Motion plus on my TV but that just seems to make the screen a little darker.

    Is there a software program that interpolates and converts .MKV files to 50 frames? At least if I could make my HD movies watchable I wouldn't feel like I've wasted so much money on LCD / LED technology.
     
  6. leereesuk

    leereesuk
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    Guys I've spoke to a few people and progressive video definately is the reason. Some TV programs are interlaced at 50 frames per second and others are shot at 24 frames. This is why some programms look jerky and others are smooth.

    I guess I'll just have to hope people keep producing interlaced content and hopefully someday in the future the industry might decide to switch to 50 (48) fps. Unfortunately for me there doesn't seem to be many people that actually notice the jerking in the new progressive content so I'll just have to somehow deal with it.

    I've been testing my telly and it appears more than capable of displaying smooth scrolling images, I have been playing PC games on it and there is no blur, lag or jerkyness.

    If anybody knows of a device I can buy that interpolates a 24p signal into 48p please let me know.

    Just one other thing, I want to re-iterate that the problem has nothing to do with the Samsung TV so people should not be put off buying it, it's one of the best TV's I've seen and I'm so glad I opted to buy this set. SD upscaled content looks absolutely amazing, much better than LG, Sony and Panasonic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2010
  7. Nielo TM

    Nielo TM
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  8. Nielo TM

    Nielo TM
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    LED motion Plus is just blacklight scanning

    What you have to is enable Anti blur and anti judder
     
  9. Nielo TM

    Nielo TM
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    Contents are often recorded, mastered, rendered in either low motion or high motion. Low motion refers to 24p, 25p and 30p. High motion refers to 48p, 50i/p and 60i/p.

    Low motion contents do not have sufficient frames to create the illusion of fluid motion. But it does produce certain cinematic look that most people prefer. Most low-motion contents are blurred during motion to aid continues motion.

    High motion contents do have sufficient frames to create the illusion of fluid motion, but it still requires motion blur to high individual frames from being detected by the eye.


    Low-Motion and High-Motion are nothing new. they have been around for decades.
     

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