LCD Input Lag / Video Delay measurement (PC & console games responsiveness)

Icm76

Active Member
There is very little reference in reviews or in this forum regarding actual measured input lag. This is a real problem for some games players trying to pick the right TV or monitor, so I've tried to summarise the best information I've found. Due to the jargon being inconsistent I've also tried to list all the variations I've found listed elsewhere and from talking to broadcast equipment suppliers.

The delay in ms on the results listed below is the average measured delay. There is some variation on the measurements, but a lot of the results have been repeated by testers posting on other forums.

http://www.digitalversus.com/ is the English translation of the database created at http://www.lesnumeriques.com/ Full credit to them & their related sites http://www.hardware.fr/ & http://www.behardware.com/ for all testing & collection of results

Jargon
Input Lag / Video Delay / Image Delay / Video Latency / Image Latency
This is refers to the total time it takes from the signal input to the final image appearing on screen. Note that on any particular TV the delay may vary according to how much processing is needed i.e. scaling, deinterlacing, contrast boosting, overdrive etc. Some TVs & monitors may have a fixed length frame buffer so that processing always x number of frames. However LCD pixel response will always vary according to the type of colour transitions, hence perceived input lag will fluctuate slightly on every LCD display.

Circuit Delay / Processor Delay / Processor Latency
This sometimes refers to the image processing to scale, deinterlace etc prior to the panel. However in some cases it may include the processing time of the panel as well. Check any quoted specs or measurements carefully to be sure exactly what they refer to.
I think the point of this reference is to have a known length of delay that explicitly excludes the variation due to pixel response. It would also give a common reference to seperate external image processors or the delay in monitors using CRT, Plasma etc.

Panel Delay / Panel Latency
Refers to the actual panel processing & may or may not include pixel response. Any manufacturers specs should be checked so you know exactly what they are referring to.

Pixel Response
Pixel Response should never be confused with input lag. It is possible to have a very low pixel response with a very large circuit delay. For completeness, when looking at spec sheets there are 2 ways of quoting pixel response:
Grey to grey (gtg) this is a semi reliable spec, but the average transition for all colours may be 2-3 times longer.
ISO 13406-2 (black>white>black) is a fairly useless measure as the real performace may be 4-5 times longer or worse!​

Measured Input Lag / Video Delay Results

IPS panel HDTV
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=65&mo1=179&p1=1768&ma2=64&mo2=144&p2=1568&ph=12
Hitachi 32LD8700 = 29.3ms
Toshiba WLT68 = 43.2ms

VA panel HDTV (& one unkown panel type)
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=129&p1=1470&ma2=36&mo2=130&p2=1471&ph=12
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=16&mo1=131&p1=1472&ma2=173&ph=12
Samsung LE40M91B = 37.5ms
Samsung LE40M73BD = 49.3ms
Sony KDLV2000 = 41.5ms
Thomson 37LB130S5 = 23.9ms (uncertain of the panel type in this TV)

Philips 100Hz IPS
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=53&mo1=180&p1=1770&ma2=53&mo2=128&p2=1469&ph=12
Philips 42PF9731D = 46.5ms
Philips 37PF9731D = 42.5ms
N.B. You should not draw any conclusion from the result that 37" is fractionaly faster here than the 42". This may be purely down to fluctuations in the test result. It is definately not an indication that larger panels are slower!
N.B. There was a reference to a Philips technical document in one of the other threads that suggested up to 80ms of lag may be present when 'Natural Motion' processing is used. Therefore the above test results may be with this setting switched off, or possibly the processing isn't as intense when the TV is fed native 1080p.​

Computer Monitor Video Delay for comparison
Included these as they will help people with experience of these monitors compare their subjective impressions to actual measured numbers.

IPS panels
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=52&mo1=95&p1=969&ma2=88&ph=12
NEC 20WMGX2 = 15.3ms
Dell 3007WFP = 11.5ms
N.B. the Dell is 2560x1600 pixels - so there should no worries about high res displays having longer image delay!

VA panels
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=88&mo1=116&p1=1217&ma2=48&mo2=142&p2=1564&ph=12
Dell 2407WFP = 23.7ms
BenQ FP241WZ = 27.1ms
N.B. this BenQ uses black frame insertion technique

120Hz VA panels
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=233&p1=2157&ma2=48&mo2=229&p2=2117&ph=12
Samsung 245T = 58.8ms
BenQ FP241VW = 47.3ms
N.B. the difference in lag compared to FP241WZ may be due to a more complex BFI system in the FP241VW, or it could just be different setting used in the test!​

Request for more test results
If anyone spots any reviews with input lag measurements could you please post them on this thread? Personally I'm most interested in finding out more about the 1080p 100Hz TVs to use with PC games, but I imagine lots of people will be interested in the 720p sets as well. Any tests on plasma screens might also be really interesting for comparison!

If anyone anyone is able to perform the 'clone mode' tests on TVs that they own: You need a CRT monitor, a camera to take photos at 1/1000s or faster shutter speed and a video of a stopwatch. I think the 'clone mode' means a dual output video card from your PC sending the same image to both monitors

100Hz/120Hz TVs & Monitors of interest
Philips 37/42 PF9732
Philips 37/42 PF9900
Panasonic LX70/LX700 (especially since 100Hz cannot be switched off)
Panasonic 37" 1080p LCD (actual UK model number unknown)
Toshiba Z series
Sony D3000 (note that Sony's game mode switches off the 100hz processing, so it might be an interesting comparison)
* any others that anyone wants to see added to the list

It may also be useful to note any side effects such as image tearing when using 100Hz.​

Note about subjective perception of lag
Some people cannot detect 60ms or more of lag, so just because you can't feel it on your TV it doesn't mean it isn't there! Some people are hyper sensitive to it & complain about <16ms delay. So you may think your TV/monitor is subjectively quite slow but it could be fine for many people.
Audio sync problems are also a good indicator that the image processing on your TV is quite slow.

Subjective opinion of any TV is welcome, but try to give some kind of frame of reference e.g. "I use the Dell 2407 monitor & I can't see the lag, but I do see the lag on my HDTV brand/model xxxxxxx"
 
A

aitor86

Guest
I need a LCD whit no delay ....

What LCD is the best for console?

I was seeing for 32GP1U but in Spain i don`t see this model. (i thought this model has got 0 ms delay...^)

Thx
 

icihande

Active Member
Interested in the amount of input lag/delay for the Philips 32PFL9632D, if anyone is willing to conduct any testing on it.
 

mbilejo

Active Member
I tested my 42pfl9632 via laptop and S-video output to TV and on screen stopwatch taking pictures. It measured at 120ms with all the processing on and off.

I think it is slightly less when connected via HDMI as oppoed to an analogue connection like s-video.

I don't notice it personally, but that is subjective, the actual lag is objective.
 

diddyp

Standard Member
I have gathered the following qualitative data
* Sharp Aquos has "Virtually no input lag"
* Samsung F86 series has about 30ms in game mode
 
B

Bartje

Guest
Hi all,

I'm new here, had some serious audio lag problems, read some posts on this forum, did some tests and bought an digital audio delay box (Felston).

My LCD TV: Samsung LE32M86BD, 100Hz with DNIe.
(In TV-mode, all image improvement options are ON, except noise-reduction. This is OFF).

In PC-mode, I measured the video delay by using the proposed timer-program and a Fujitsu notebook: this delay was just about 16 msec (compared to the notebook LCD display). Not much.

My feeling said that there was much more video-delay when using my DVD-player's Scart or HDMI output. Audio was completely out of sync with video, very annoying.
I did not know how to measure via HDMI, so I decided to experiment with the digital audio delay box.

It appeared that I had to set the Audio delay to 130msec to have LipSync !! For me, 10msec steps were OK. I did not notice differences when I changed the audio-delay with 1msec steps.

Also, when using my digital cable TV settop box, with Scart-output fed to the TV, and audio digitally connected to my Home Cinema receiver, I had to se the audio-delay to 120 msec.

Hope this info is helpful for some people.
with best regards, Bart.
 

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