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LCD - a waiting game?

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by sonysideup, Jan 6, 2005.

  1. sonysideup

    sonysideup
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    don't know what the view of the forum is but is it worth waiting for an lcd tv? I've been in the market for a 32in model for a few months now and, having seen various reviews, I was ready to plump for the Sony KLVL32M1.

    Then Sky dropped the bombshell about high-definition telly. Sony's decision to include no HDMI/DVI input is a major blow for me (and others, I suspect) as one of the main reasons for buying the set was to watch Sky TV in high definition.

    I turned my attentions to the Sharp A3/A4 but high demand and low supply virtually rule that out.

    My latest plan has been to look at the Philips PF329986. I know a lot of people here rave about it, although I've not seen it in action yet. I know the Sony handles all my requirements very well (football, dvds, films, soaps, normal telly etc) but I need to know if the Philips will match that or even better it. The only problem is the Philips is two grand which brings me on to my main point...

    Although Sky have made it clear what their intentions are, they have not confirmed it. And while they make up their mind, is it worth hanging on to see what happens? I've seen comments on this forum which claim it's not worth splashing out now when in 12 to 18 months' time prices will have dropped and the whole high-definition saga will be solved.

    Is this a fair reflection of the forum? Basically, I want a telly which lasts five to seven years and I don't want to be left high and dry while broadcasters, studios and manufacturers argue the toss.
     
  2. jimg

    jimg
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    I think from the SKY announcment and what is happening in other countries it is pretty cleat you need a HDCp compilant input if you want Hi-deff digital TV.
     
  3. the_sanguine

    the_sanguine
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    Can somebody explain in palain english what the Sky announcement means?
     
  4. tom_nieto

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    LCD prices have fallen really really sharply over the last couple of years in terms of computer monitors, and there's been an even sharper drop in the prices of LCD TVs in the last 6 or so months. In the sales you can get a 30-32" model for a grand. I'm most definitely in the market myself for one of these TVs, but to double as a PC monitor too. The Aldi screen which has spawned a large thread here is the cheapest 27" LCD TV that I've ever seen, and the trend is almost definitely set to continue.

    I know you could wait forever with this sort of thing, but with a lot of new technologies and refresh rates, resolution and most importantly price getting better, I think it's probably worth hanging on for a while longer if you can resist buying a new screen. It's a pretty good time to buy now, but come next year they'll be practically giving away screens under 30", which is when higher resolution models will start rearing their heads.

    Sky basically announced that their high definition service would only be available to viewers with an HDMI connection due to digital copyright protection.
     
  5. the_sanguine

    the_sanguine
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    High Definition (Something) Interface?
     
  6. softg1

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    I am actively looking to get a 32" lcd as well, and have to agree, Skys announcement has stopped me considering a whole bunch of lcds that I was previously interested in.

    Do you think that the announcement is actually damaging sales? ... I wonder how the manufacturers will now respond?

    I think you are right to ask the waiting game question... surely there must be quite a few potential customers who are now going to wait a bit longer to see how things pan out. I know that as a consequence I haven't made up my mind about which lcd.

    On this basis, I think I might wait a little longer, until Sky and the other main braodcasters make a defiative commitment to Hidef and protocols.

    Although I want a new tele now!!!
    It's frustrating eh?
     
  7. Alan D

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    Asking "when should I buy an LCD telly?" is a bit like asking "how long is a piece of string?". There is no real answer - it depends on how badly you want to invest in the technology. I plumped for the best reviewed, most well featured model I could afford (Philips) - which has DVI, is HDTV ready, is HDCP compliant and has the best picture processing available at the moment. When Sky launch their HD service - I may be interested, but I'm sure programmes won't come cheap, it will require new hardware, and the amount of HD available will be quite limited initially. I would be more interested in HD-DVD, now that is an exciting prospect!
     
  8. jimsan

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    HDMI - High Definition Mulimedia Interface.
    DVI - Digital Video Interface. (Almost the same as HDMI but no audio)
    HDCP - High bandwidth Digital Content Protection.

    OK.

    As far as we can tell SKY are proposing to broadcast their signal as 720p50 with HDCP.

    This means: A progressive digital picture (the 'p' bit), broadcast at a vertical resolution of 720 pixels at a frequency of 50Hz. The 50Hz bit is the doubtful one. Reason is that most other HiDef broadcasts worldwide are at 60Hz. This is difficult in the UK because out native power frequency (?) is 50Hz. There still seems to be a small chance that Sky will choose 1080i instead of 720p, but I doubt it.

    The HDCP bit is a bit tricky. As far as I understand, Sky will broadcast some HiDef programming that is free of Content Protection (sort of 'Free to Air' ish). These programmes will play without HDCP compliance on appropriate displays. However HDCP compliant TV's are the way to go.

    To answer SonySideUp, the Philips has it all. Fantastic picture, Ambilight(fun), and most importantly, total compliance with nearly all of the relevant HiDef proposals. ie, it can handle both 720p50 and 720p60. Also 1080i50 and 1080i60 and numerous others. It is also HDCP compliant!

    The only downsides with the Philips are, it's not the cheapest and it is pretty big! The picture really is second to none......

    ...at the moment. Of course, pictures will improve, prices will fall, new technology will march on in. (OLED and SED Flat Panels will almost certainly knock LCD's into the boonies within two or three years, but costs, initially, will be high(ish) although they both are potentially cheaper to build than LCD's)

    So wait if you want, but you may end up waiting...and waiting.

    Choices.

    Jimmy
     
  9. shirtee

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    I'm in exactly the same position although looking at a max of 26" and it's a royal pain in the :eek:
    I'm 33 and I've never been able to wait for something in my life. When I decide I want something that's it, most of the decision making has been done and my brain tends to switch off and that's when impulse starts to take over.
    I'm doing well so far but it's hard goddamn it - it hard
     
  10. bargepole

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  11. sonysideup

    sonysideup
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    the trouble with waiting is i'm not a very patient man - it doesn't come naturally to me! i also agree with the "how long's a piece of string" comment. technology will always advance and this time next year i could be having the same dilemma.
    that said, i can't afford to get this wrong (both financially and mentally!) and perhaps holding fire is the best way to go - at least until the philips drops a couple of hundred quid.
     
  12. scrapbook

    scrapbook
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    What sort of timescales are we looking at for these TV's? I think i read somewhere that the largest TV they have made with this technology so far is 21inch - I could be wrong though!
     
  13. paulockenden

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    I decided to buy now (I got a Sony KDL-L32MRX1 in the end).

    Why? Well, I came to the conclusion that the lack of the correct input didn't matter. Fact of the matter is, there IS a component input which accepts an HD signal. If Sky decide to support a different standard then I'm pretty damn sure that people like Lektropaks, Keene and others will bring out little converter boxes that sit in line, accepting the Sky signal and spitting out a normal 720p component signal.

    P.
     
  14. Rob20

    Rob20
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    If I were looking to buy a 32" lcd tv with hi-def and hdmi, to last for 5-7 years, I'd be tempted to wait for a set with 1920 by 1080p resolution. That way 1080i signals won't need to be scaled down to fit.

    Also, the new SED tvs are out this year (a flat screen that works via the same principles as crt). Apparantly will have the advantages of both crt contrast, colours and brightness etc, and flat screens. i.e. far better pq than lcd or plasma. Also, 1920 by 1080 should be the standard res. :)
     
  15. paulockenden

    paulockenden
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    From 6 feet away I don't reckon I'd notice the difference between
    720 and 1080. Sure it makes a difference when viewing the Windows Media samples on a PC, or when sitting a couple of feet from your telly.

    But from normal viewing distances? I think you'd need to watch through binoculars to see the extra detail!

    I think the really difference that matters is i vs. p - that's huge, but it's about flicker and smoothness, rather than perceived detail.

    P.
     
  16. Rob20

    Rob20
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    Suppose so, but what if Blu-Ray, HD-DVD and the next gen consoles offer 1080p at 50/60hz? You're covered.
     
  17. sonysideup

    sonysideup
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    that's quite a brave decision. presumably, it will be possible to convert the component input in the future? has anyone seen anything to suggest this can be done?
     
  18. Rob20

    Rob20
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    won't it have to crack hdcp copy protection and thus be highly illegal?
     
  19. jimg

    jimg
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    Yes,
    I beleive that HDCP is a high level encrpytion at the chip level. Anyone who breaks the rules can be "barred", it does not mean you cannot have hi-def analogue ( i.e. component ) but the hi-def digital sources will mostly be protected. There are quite a few websites explaining it if you do a search.

    http://www.digital-cp.com/list.html

    http://www.edn.com/article/CA209091.html
     
  20. sonysideup

    sonysideup
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    well, if that's the case then the sony will bite the dust for me. it all looks a little too complicated getting around the sky problem. it just stuns me that sony didn't see this coming. presumably, they will have to add a dvi/hdmi input to their future sets.

    i'll have to test out the philips now. can anyone tell me how it handles football and other sport.

    cheers
     

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