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Layer Change?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by one_jedi, Jul 16, 2003.

  1. one_jedi

    one_jedi
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    Why do DVD players still have pauses when there is a layer change?

    My first DVD player was a cheap player from comet, about £160 at the time in the summer of 2000. The performance was good but it was very basic, couldn't do anything with DTS wouldn't play cd-rs ect but had NO layer change and I mean none. When I first started watching DVD's I didn't even know there were supposed to be pauses when the layer changed.

    Since then now having more DVD olayers in the house and watched films round others houses they all had layer change. I just got a Pioneer 360 which is amazing but still you can notice the layer change, this is the same for Toshiba and Sony players I have seen. More expensive players may get rid of this but why do any players have them when one of the first ever budget players which is servely outdated now has no visible layer change?

    I even reconnected it recently to check I wasn't remebering things with tinted glasses but there was definetely no visible layer change.
     
  2. cybersoga

    cybersoga
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    The first budget dvd players used ATAPI multi-speed dvd rom drives designed for computers, that's why...
     
  3. one_jedi

    one_jedi
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    So why don't players use something similar now? My first player is nearly three year olds but still works pretty much as good as back then after loads of use?
     
  4. neil housden

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    Denon's players include a video buffer which reduces the layer change to zero. I've tried both the 2800 and 2900 and it works perfectly. I think lower price players include it as well. Check the player stats before demoing.

    And if you are considering a real low price player use an xbox. I watched dvds for three months on an 8ft screen using my xbox and although not perfect the picture was pretty good for 150 beer tokens or what ever xboxs sell for now. The xbox is basically a pc. The video performance is quite good and it includes dts.

    I await the angry replies from traditionalists that I should propose such heresy in a dvd forum, but I think the xbox is under rated at low price level.
     
  5. Mr 928

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    Not had a problem with my Pioneer Elite 05, although to be honest it does sometimes depend on the disc and how well it's been mastered, but usually layer changes go by unnoticed.... And the Elite is 4 years old :eek:
     
  6. one_jedi

    one_jedi
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    Are any makes of DVD players better at layer change then others? I hear even some expensive Sony models have bad layer change? Obviously Denon are good but they are at the higher end of the market.

    I juat find it strange that a 3 year old budget DVD player that is probably worth about £20 -£30 pound now has no layer change and new current one still do.

    I understand that someone siad they used drives mean for PC's so why weren't better drives used in even newer entry level DVD players?

    What price range are you looking at before there is no layer change?

    Also I read somewhere that super bits DVD's have no layer change?
     
  7. domfjbrown

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    All the Sonys I have seen (325, 525, 725, 735) exhibit layer change - the one on the double sided NON special edition Armageddon is particularly bad on my old 525 - although my soon-to-be-replaced Samsung doesn't seem so bad at this - everything else about the Samsung is sluggish instead ;)

    I believe that Superbit DVDs still have a layer change depending on how long the film is - I'd expect my Gladiator Superbit to exhibit a change somewhere - although I haven't got round to playing it yet.

    My DVD drive on my PC (3 years old) exhibits no layer change slowdown either - I find it difficult to believe that companies can be so penny pinching as to not put a meg of RAM in there so they can buffer the data during a layer change - I believe a Hitachi model from a couple of years ago did this...

    Certainly, currently your average DVD disc exhibits the same "feature" that killled off 8track cartridges - that damn split in the middle :)
     
  8. Adam Barratt

    Adam Barratt
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    The buffer built into a player will have no effect on layer change time, no matter how big it becomes (and increasing its size too much would cause problems elsewhere). This is because DVDs themselves force players to 'dump' their buffer memories when a layer change occurs, and the picture is forced to pause as the player reads ahead and re-buffers information on the disc's sub-layer.

    Denon's players have very fast layer changes because they have very fast transports. Cheaper players are often DVD-ROM based and may well only have a DVD-ROM licence (DVD-Video licensing is an additional cost). As a sudden break in data would naturally be a bad thing for computers, they ignore the player's request to dump the buffer when the layer occurs.

    Discs can be authored such that the buffer dump request does not occur, as with most Superbit titles, and some early titles from Universal and New Line. However, these discs do not technically comply with the official DVD specifications.

    Adam
     
  9. eMonk

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    What would be the point in flushing the buffer exactly? I can't think of any reason to do this. (well, on a layer change anyway).
     
  10. Gliese 581c

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    Layer change shouldnt be a problem for at least 90% of people anymore.....the big problem a few years back was the way the change was coded on the disc and how fast the laser was to stop and pick it up at the new point in the new layer. Now they have improved this immensley with a mixture of better players this problem should be gone. Sometimes certain discs would have a faster change than others...

    This is an issue I had almost forgot about

    :laugh:
     
  11. one_jedi

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    Well like you said it should not be a problem anymore but it still is! It jsut seems to be have been overlooked. Admitedly a 0.5 second stop isn't a major thing especially with all the other advantages of DVD but you would think by now this would eb a thing of the past except for really cheap players. It's seems tho that most players still have a pause.
     
  12. cybersoga

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    I am thinking that most players still have the layer pause because they conform to DVD spec, well if that's the case why don't they update the spec to allow seamless layer changes? or is it a conspiracy to sell superbit discs?
     
  13. bossc@

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