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Last nights Panorama special on Al-Qeada

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by RMCF, Jul 11, 2005.

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  1. RMCF

    RMCF
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    Having watched last nights show, I believe that nowadays we are too politically correct and soft on people in society, namely scumbags. There was a fella at a mosque (quite high ranking I believe) on film roaring and shouting about how he wanted to see more western heads rolling in Iraq, basically calling for beheadings to be celebrated. Now this guy might have been born in Britain and might be classed as British, but why don't the authorities have him on the 1st plane out of the country or banged up behind bars? Surely there is a rule about inciting violence that he could be charged with.
     
  2. seany

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    I'm a pretty liberal person, but any person coming out with stuff like and acting against their country should be sent right over there never to return.
     
  3. overkill

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    There is. However, the Police probably feel that while he's in plain view it's easier to keep tabs on people like that. Hence not every neo-nazi nutter is hauled in every time they start banging on either.
     
  4. RMCF

    RMCF
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    It would be even easier to keep tabs on him if he was in an 8' x 6' cell.
     
  5. chard

    chard
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    I think that this has certainly been the strategy, the programme mentioned a belief or 'únderstanding' that these people would not do anything on their own doorstep - however, I think that the niaivity of this strategy has been made obvious by last week, the chief suspects are people who have been hiding here in plain sight for years.

    We should and have to remove them, either through internment or deportation.
     
  6. Lex

    Lex
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    or baseball bat.
     
  7. chard

    chard
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    I don't think Cherie Blairs Human Rights Act stretches to these.....does it :confused:

    However, I understand there are concerns that many of these people are convicted terrorists in their own countries and would face the death penalty if we sent them back - to which I would say, tough ! although why is it beyond our government to get agreements on these to have them reduced to lengthy jail terms ?
     
  8. HMHB

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    My view is that if they don't like the way of life and western values of this country, then they should not be living here.
     
  9. Mep

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    that's the irony of it....we give them the freedom to behave in this way.......a freedom they would have removed if they got their way
     
  10. pringtef

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    Surely these actions amount to treason, if not high treason? Are these things that have also gone awol?
     
  11. overkill

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    Sounds good John, but where do you draw the line? Many of these people were born and raised here. On the other side of the coin there are plenty of Ultra right groups who are equally opposed to our "decedent" Western society. Do we start chucking them out too? 30,000 of these cuddly fellows swamped the chief Mosque in London, busting the e-mail server. There's plenty of em' out there............ Yes they have the common sense not to mouth off on telly, but as has been shown, their views are pretty extreme and not wholly in love with our democracy.

    If someone is caught committing acts of terror, try them and send them to prison - for a long, long, time. If they are caught inciting racial hatred (which is what these fanatics on both sides are doing) then lock em' up too.
     
  12. HMHB

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    The problem is that I reckon everyone in authority is scared to death to say or do anything about the muslim extremists as they don't want to upset them or be accused of racism. We have to stop treating them with kid gloves now and get it sorted. If I lived in another country I would respect their way of life and fit in with it the best I could.
     
  13. overkill

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    You might John, but the majority of English people don't. A lot of these guys have come from our former colonies were we made no effort to fit in. As the saying goes, 'when in Rome'. ;)

    I think more likely they don't want to alienate any more Muslims. Govt and the authorities (past and present) has to tread the fine line between stopping incitement, and by cracking down causing even more problems. I agree though these people should not be allowed to preach hate. Hate is hate no matter what religion, creed, etc you are.

    Again though, our own religion hasn't been to clever on the bigotry front in the past either........ :rolleyes:
     
  14. HMHB

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    Our lot may not behave themselves abroad but they don't try and change the way that the natives of that country live. They don't wage a war on the religion and customs of the country they live in do they ? They don't comit acts of treason do they ?
     
  15. vonhosen

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    What did we do in India then, or other colonies ?
    I don't think we just tried to fit in with their way of life at the time & I think they'd like a few of the stones back from the crown jewels as well, if they had the chance.

    There are more Christians in India than Sikhs. Did that come about through their choice or did we play a large part in that ?
     
  16. HMHB

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    I'm talking about now, not the past. If I were to stand at a football match and say one tenth of what these extremists are saying I would be arrested and charged, the rules have to work both ways otherwise it will play right into the hands of the right wing racists that we all hate.
     
  17. phillfyspoon

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    I see these people saying these things and burning british flags and I dont want them in this country the problem is muslems so deport them all.
     
  18. vonhosen

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    I think our history on these topics (like India) greatly influences the way we deal with things today. There is a lot of guilt & apeasement that takes place. It's as if we are trying to prove that is all behind us, but we have to bend over backwards to make sure we can't be called into question over our current record on these issues.

    It isn't all one way though. We do let the BNP pedal their views, hold meetings etc as well.

    Don't get me wrong, I am totally against the message of hate that is expressed in all camps.
     
  19. HMHB

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    See what I mean :nono:
     
  20. Dr Diversity

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    Was Lord Tebbit on the program?
     
  21. Ian J

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    According to your twisted logic all Muslims should be deported because of the activities of one or two. Would you object if the same logic were applied to yourself and you were deported as a practicing paedophile on the basis that some paedophiles were Christian.
     
  22. overkill

    overkill
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    Yes they did (and still do). The English imposed religion, politics and a completly alien civil service on our imperial territories. One of the reason India exploded in the late 40's was due to our interference in their religions. And one of the reasons we were in such a hurry to leave..........

    If you go to parts of Spain John it's embarrasing to see whole towns taken over by the English (and Germans) and devoted to our way of life. English pubs, bars, clubs, supermarkets, bingo halls, the works. No attempt is made to integrate. The Spanish reaction? Oh well.

    Our reaction if that happens here, not that I've seen any UK town taken over the way we do - 'send them back'?

    Exactly Ian. There was a Muslim guy on this Morning who works near where the bus bomb went off. He was talking about how frightened he was ( he missed the bomb by minutes), and how these people do not in any way represent him, Islam, or any ordinary UK muslim.
     
  23. HMHB

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    You've conveniently missed my main point which is that the English abroad do not openly declare war on the way of life of the natives and do not commit acts of treason against the host nation - even if it's just burning the flag. But then again I expected you to ignore those bits ;) :D
    My idea of fitting in is to let the people who's country you have moved to get on with their lives as they have always done and not expect the laws to be changed to their way of thinking.
     
  24. HMHB

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    Sorry mate, my last post seems a bit personal when I've just read it back. I'm just very worried at the moment as all around here where I live I'm hearing people coming out with all sorts of things against all people who "look like terrorists" (ie all Asians probably) and the last thing we need is a week government not clamping down on the extremists as that will send more people over to the far right :rolleyes:
     
  25. Moosh

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    We would you like to deport us? Muslimland? :rolleyes:
     
  26. Mep

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    :D
     
  27. chard

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    Haven't you heard ? we developed as a nation when previously India was a group of disparate waring factions. We spread democracy and development around the world, which most were grateful for, as they kept and followed the parliamentary systems we gave them.

    The former colonies like us so much that they are all ( with one exception) members of the Commonwealth and work fairly well together - doesn't sound like we treated them too badly does it !!?

    Oh and by the way Britain was the first country to ban slavery (well after Mexico) and through the good offices of the Royal Navy stopped slavery throughout the world where it had been practised for thousands of years by black and white.

    For example, you might like to know that there is NO French equivilant of the commonwealth......Vietnam and Algeria didn't want to know ;)
     
  28. chard

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    As far as I am aware both Muslims and Christians I have spoken to are happy for dissident, trouble makers to be removed from this country who are inciting trouble - in particular those Islamic Clerics who are speaking publicly.

    Obviously we can only remove them if like Hamza and Omar Bakri, they are foriegn citizens, and there are countries who are waiting to try them.

    If they are British citizens then we have the right to detain them.

    By the way, as for Muslims feeling frightened after the bombs llast week - I am really sorry if that is the case as they are no more to blame than anyone else - however, the blame for the current unrest lies with the terrorists, this is one of their aims.

    As for the British reaction to Muslims - I regret any incident of stone throwing or name calling - but I refuse to accept that this country is not one of the most understanding and considerate nations under such provocation.

    Before we feel guilty about feeling angry - think for one minute about what the reaction would be if British citizens had blown up train station sin Mecca or Rhiyad last week.....British people and businesses would be burning in the street right now !!

    I believe that last week showed the British people at their best, and we continue to do so.
     
  29. vonhosen

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    I expect they were particularly grateful for episodes like the Jalianwala Bagh massacre on 13 April 1919, where over 400 innocent and unarmed people were killed, followed by the imposition of martial law in Punjab. :rolleyes:

    Undoubtedly they had some benefits from our presence but if it was that good they would never have wanted independence. What they resented was the forced imposition of western values on their lives & the brutal treatment they received such as the above massacre.
     
  30. overkill

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    You're wasting your time Vanhosen. Chards version of history is carefully filtered thru the "right wing approved" system. ;)

    And why? Because it was deemed to be no longer an effective system by British business. It's no coincidence that slavery was abolished at the same time as the industrial revolution took hold, and we'd lost the biggest slave market. Don't credit us with being munificent when we weren't being so. Business rejected the moral opposition ruthlessly so in the early 18th C. They allowed the Christians to lobby for its abolition when it was no longer needed.

    Careful now, that won't fit thru said filter.......... :D It's the truth as well, so definitely not.
     
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