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KURO owners. HELP me understand if I have a dud on my hands!

gorman

Established Member


This is what I see on a full black screen. The gray is exxagerated to better show the effect. It's not a photo as I don't have a good enough camera to catch it.

But in full darkness it's clearly visible and it shows sometimes even during normal vision (in full darkness or very dim light).

Now, is it normal or is my screen defective?

It's an exposition model that was on for 250 hours, plus 40 now from me of normal watching plus break-in.

It's really similar to what was mentioned in this post. Only the pattern is different and mine, sadly, it's easier to "recognize" during normal viewing in darkness.

This with Video mode. In PC mode the whole screen gets a lighter shade of grey and the unevenness is fare more subdued (although slightly present). Obviously I do not want to use PC mode, if I wanted grey blacks I would have bought something else.

Is what I'm seeing normal? Is the unit defective. Do I have ground to ask Pioneer to exchange the screen?

Thanks in advance to all kind souls that will help me. Of all things... having problems with blacks on Kuros is sadly ironic. :rolleyes:
 

kingfats

Distinguished Member
[

But in full darkness it's clearly visible and it shows sometimes even during normal vision (in full darkness or very dim light).

Now, is it normal or is my screen defective?



:

I think Pioneer would class this as normal......a characteristic of the screen so to speak.
 

kingfats

Distinguished Member
Even if it shows under normal viewing conditions? Dim lights, regular programming with dark content (I noticed it while watching 24).

It shouldn't really be noticeable under normal viewing but some have reporting seeing the affect given the right circumstances.If still concerned i would contact your dealer.
 

Chelsea_Fan

Established Member



This is what I see on a full black screen. The gray is exxagerated to better show the effect. It's not a photo as I don't have a good enough camera to catch it.

But in full darkness it's clearly visible and it shows sometimes even during normal vision (in full darkness or very dim light).

Now, is it normal or is my screen defective?

It's an exposition model that was on for 250 hours, plus 40 now from me of normal watching plus break-in.

It's really similar to what was mentioned in this post. Only the pattern is different and mine, sadly, it's easier to "recognize" during normal viewing in darkness.

This with Video mode. In PC mode the whole screen gets a lighter shade of grey and the unevenness is fare more subdued (although slightly present). Obviously I do not want to use PC mode, if I wanted grey blacks I would have bought something else.

Is what I'm seeing normal? Is the unit defective. Do I have ground to ask Pioneer to exchange the screen?

Thanks in advance to all kind souls that will help me. Of all things... having problems with blacks on Kuros is sadly ironic. :rolleyes:

Mine doesn't do that, except briefly just after switch on but it goes after a split second. Maybe yours has some image retention that needs to be cleared. Have you tried running a video pattern on it for a few hours?

IMO the problem is that Pioneer are simply overhyped by vendors and many owners. This gives new owners a false expectation of performance. At the end of the day you get what you pay for and these are cheapish consumer TVs built to a budget. Sticking a sexy name like 'KURO' on the bezel simply adds to the hype and mystique.

IMO you only have to watch one of these TVs for an evening to see irritating limitations in the picture quality.
i.e. they aren't much different to the other TVs on offer, eg in one demo I saw a high end Panasonic plasma (58") that was equally good on blu ray (if anything it had less posterisation on faces when viewed close up and the skintone looked better)

I've never owned or seen a modern (highend) TV as poor as this (Pioneer 5090) with respect to colour accuracy or skintones. ...and I've spent ages tweaking it (just like everyone else tweaks theirs ;))

My old Sony CRT had better colour accuracy straight out of the box and so did various LCD monitors used for occasional TV watching.

Mine is prone to a green cast on low contrast scenes and this gets slowly worse the longer the TV is left on. Also the black performance is strange, as the TV often turns dark areas into an inky black blot at the expense of shadow detail. I can get rid of the green cast in the manual colour temps but I only have to look at the CRT to see how 'natural skintone' is done properly/accurately.

I've seen other reviews that say the same so I don't think mine is faulty.

Mines probably done over 150 hours now and I've given up believing the b0llox about how they get better the more you run them (mnes getting greener/worse if anything) It does have its moments however, especially on some blu ray movies but I can't see myself keeping this TV foe very long.

I'd really like to see the 'Which' review on Pioneer plasmas as that gave them quite a slating on picture quality.
 
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gorman

Established Member
Depressing picture... :(

I'm pretty sure it's not image retention. It doesn't show on any full color screen, just on black and with this "slowly turning off" effect that, at a certain moment, stops and leaves the screen the way I've tried to depict in my mock-up.

I'm running the break-in screens whenever I can. But this doesn't seem to change.
 

wHoMe

Established Member
IMO the problem is that Pioneer are simply overhyped by vendors and many owners. This gives new owners a false expectation of performance. At the end of the day you get what you pay for and these are cheapish consumer TVs built to a budget. Sticking a sexy name like 'KURO' on the bezel simply adds to the hype and mystique.

IMHO thats a ridiculous statement :rolleyes:

Do you really not think this forum would be filled up with complaints from Kuro owners if they had the same problems as you especially after paying a premium price not to mention most members on here are pretty well informed and know what they're looking at

If the majority of Kuro owners say one thing and a couple of others say another doesn't that strike you as a little odd unless theres some sort of conspiracy going on here
 

Chelsea_Fan

Established Member
Depressing picture... :(

I'm pretty sure it's not image retention. It doesn't show on any full color screen, just on black and with this "slowly turning off" effect that, at a certain moment, stops and leaves the screen the way I've tried to depict in my mock-up.

The 'slowly turning off' effect is exactly what I see on mine, it's almost like a creeping dark liquid stain but in reverse.

But I only see it briefly after startup.

I did get vertical smeary background marks on my TV (most visible on slow pans of dull backgrounds) when it was a day or two old but these cleared up quickly.

This may have been image retention but it looked more like the screen was stained/contaminated but thankfully, it went away within a few hours of runtime and so far it hasn't come back.

Maybe yours will be the same.
 

gorman

Established Member
Hi wHoMe, I'd agree with you. Which is why I'm asking directly to Kuro owners.

Either this is normal or it is not.

If it is, I could decide to live with it or return the product and get my money back (I have time till the end of this week).

If it isn't I would start pestering customer support until they send me a qualified technician to have a look and insist for an exchange.
 

Chelsea_Fan

Established Member
Originally Posted by Chelsea_Fan
IMO the problem is that Pioneer are simply overhyped by vendors and many owners. This gives new owners a false expectation of performance. At the end of the day you get what you pay for and these are cheapish consumer TVs built to a budget. Sticking a sexy name like 'KURO' on the bezel simply adds to the hype and mystique.


IMHO thats a ridiculous statement :rolleyes:

It isn't ridiculous. That's how consumer products are designed, priced and marketed.

It's designed to a price and the marketeers stick a sexy badge on it saying KURO to make it sell better.

At the end of the day I've got one of these TVs sat here and it's very easy to fault it. It isn't much different to the other highend plasma TVs on the market.
 
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gorman

Established Member
The 'slowly turning off' effect is exactly what I see on mine, it's almost like a creeping dark liquid stain but in reverse.

But I only see it briefly after startup.
Would you be so kind as to create a 1920x1080 black picture, loading it up on a USB key and try to display it in complete darkness?

For about 20 seconds, you'll get the "slowly turning off" thing, then the screen shuts itself off completely (but that's normal). It's what you see in those 20 seconds that concerns me. Because the pattern I have is recognizable even during normal viewing in the conditions I pointed out. What I'm thinking is that, maybe, my pattern is a particularly unlucky one.



I've prepared the image for anyone that would like to help me.
 

Chelsea_Fan

Established Member
Would you be so kind as to create a 1920x1080 black picture, loading it up on a USB key and try to display it in complete darkness?

For about 20 seconds, you'll get the "slowly turning off" thing, then the screen shuts itself off completely (but that's normal). It's what you see in those 20 seconds that concerns me. Because the pattern I have is recognizable even during normal viewing in the conditions I pointed out. What I'm thinking is that, maybe, my pattern is a particularly unlucky one.





I've prepared the image for anyone that would like to help me.

OK I'll try it tonight.

Funnily enough I've been creating test patterns for mine to try and explain the weird black behaviour where the TV sinks into blacks a bit too keenly.

I made up a classic 32 line greyscale pattern and it coped with that really well. I keep meaning to make up more patterns that replicate real pictures just to see if the TV is doing some tricks with larger black areas to beef up the blackness.
 

gorman

Established Member
Thank you Chelsea Fan. I appreciate it.

If anybody else would like to try this little experiment, it would really help me deciding what to do.

My take is that my case is a particularly bad one, as the three "stripes" are quit homogeneous and the bottom one is pretty large, hence recognizable on dark content.
 

NICKMHD

Banned
I'd really like to see the 'Which' review on Pioneer plasmas as that gave them quite a slating on picture quality.

I've seen the infamous Which review and they haven't got a clue i'm afraid.

They complained how motion on football looked 'jerky' - this because they obviously had it set to Drive Mode 1 and not Drive Mode 2 - totally clueless :suicide:
 

~dadam02~

Established Member
I've never owned or seen a modern (highend) TV as poor as this (Pioneer 5090) with respect to colour accuracy or skintones. ...and I've spent ages tweaking it (just like everyone else tweaks theirs ;))

My old Sony CRT had better colour accuracy straight out of the box and so did various LCD monitors used for occasional TV watching.

Mine is prone to a green cast on low contrast scenes and this gets slowly worse the longer the TV is left on. Also the black performance is strange, as the TV often turns dark areas into an inky black blot at the expense of shadow detail. I can get rid of the green cast in the manual colour temps but I only have to look at the CRT to see how 'natural skintone' is done properly/accurately.

I've seen other reviews that say the same so I don't think mine is faulty.

Mines probably done over 150 hours now and I've given up believing the b0llox about how they get better the more you run them (mnes getting greener/worse if anything) It does have its moments however, especially on some blu ray movies but I can't see myself keeping this TV foe very long.

I'd really like to see the 'Which' review on Pioneer plasmas as that gave them quite a slating on picture quality.
Have to say i'm a little surprised by your comments, you clearly have issues with your Pio. However, i think comparing any modern day set to a CRT is only going to end with disappointment. I was just sitting here watching the beginning to Jaws 2 and thinking how good the colour reproduction is, quite excellent. I have not calibratred (yet) but i have tweaked, alot. I have removed the green hue you refer to and now have no issues at all with colour. Regards skin tone, you only have to watch the interviews on football or cricket on Sky HD to appreciate how realistic they are.

I do agree with you on your previous comments on motion, to some degree, but it doesn't bother me as much as you.....maybe each person is more sensitive to it?

I think we would all love to have CRT performance, but in a 50" or 60" set, unfortnately this is not quite possible yet so we need to move on......
 

astirling

Prominent Member
Well if he gets his colour management right then the skin tones will look as accurate as can be. These sets can be set ridiculously close to ISF standards for colour. Slating them with respect to colour accuracy is just an absolute dead end. It's like moaning that the pacific ocean just isn't deep enough in comparison to the fish pond you've dug in your back garden.
 

GaryMo

Prominent Member
I can see nothing but perfect black with the image you created though my 5090 isn't in a room which I can put into total darkness.
 

sparklesmcgraw

Established Member
In a perfectly dark room I also see nothing but total, and even darkness.

Well almost nothing! Trying this black image, I have noticed some mild retention of the comedy central logo in the top left corner!!

Must have been when I watched king of queens all day the other day. Damn, I'm gonna run the screen wipe now, and make sure I have the orbiter on from now on. Not that it's that bad as it cannot be seen during normal viewing.

But in a nutshell, I see a uniform black image.
 

Chelsea_Fan

Established Member
Would you be so kind as to create a 1920x1080 black picture, loading it up on a USB key and try to display it in complete darkness?

For about 20 seconds, you'll get the "slowly turning off" thing, then the screen shuts itself off completely (but that's normal). It's what you see in those 20 seconds that concerns me. Because the pattern I have is recognizable even during normal viewing in the conditions I pointed out. What I'm thinking is that, maybe, my pattern is a particularly unlucky one.





I've prepared the image for anyone that would like to help me.

Not sure if I'm doing this right but I loaded your image via USB and the gallery menu.

I put it onto full screen in a totally dark room and I saw a totally even image that looks similar to the image I see when channel hopping.

i.e. a big dark grey rectangle (I guess KURO doesn't apply in a dark room)

After a while the image turns 'off' and the room goes totally black.

I don't see anything other than a perfect/uniform rectangle when the image is first loaded and right up until the display goes off.

It would be nice if it looked a bit 'blacker' but there's no faulting the uniformity of the leaked greyness.
 
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WREXY

Established Member
I too just noticed retention of a DOG on the black screen. Nova sports 2. These channels over do it with these logos. I also see it when I change input to my HD DVD player, (player off). and having it set to 4:3. I see it in the grey bar on the top right. Having a closer look I can see it in nomal viewing very faintly on very light background colours like yellow. I am running the screen wipe now and can see it there too. It is a white DOG. Always used ******** settings from day one without change, except for this last week. Been using Astirlings. The settrings are safe though as they have come from calibrators. If I hadnt seen this thread I wouldn't have noticed. Looks like we have to be careful with these logos. I'm too afraid to watch that channel again.:(
 

sparklesmcgraw

Established Member
Just stick the orbiter on and do a screen wash every now and again for an hour or so. I noticed a slight improvement after only 15 mins.

Unless it is in plain view when watching normal telly, I wouldnt worry too much about it.
 

kingfats

Distinguished Member
The Pioneer is certainly very good with IR but certainly NOT bullet proof you still have to keep a check on things.
 

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