KURO is dead! A sad day for AV Fans….

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by Phil Hinton, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. rack kit

    rack kit
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    44
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +4
    Still in the middle of fixing my place up and was was looking at getting the 50" KURO model. After saving hard for a good while, i've got the money to buy it now but wouldn't be able to use the set for a while yet.

    Would any one here do this now with this news? I've had a look around at most sets in the local Currys etc and know all the sets are badly set up (some shop guy mentioned shop mode which i think translates to maximum on every setting) and it was still the best looking picture i've seen so what they look like when set up correctly i can only guess.

    It'll be interesting to see how this news affects the current price too (along with the exchange rates).

    Cheers in advance.
     
  2. eric pisch

    eric pisch
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,501
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +754
    a sad sad sad day

    i was saving for true black kuro in the years to come, hopefully 75"

    now what, I cant see LCD ever getting close, Looked at a 3k 40" sony lcd at the weekend and it was awefull ... very thin but awefull quality.

    i just hope my baby can last the distance :(

    do i take a gamble and buy a 9g 60" and shove the 8g 60" in the bedroom as a backup....
     
  3. Craig uk

    Craig uk
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,420
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +978
    Yes david it was that disc, and as you rightly point out it is 1080i/60 so the artefacts could possibly have been results of deinterlacing issues.
     
  4. Coffin

    Coffin
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    11,576
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +5,184
    It's been suggested by many the prices will remain as per, or possibly even increase, as supply becomes short.
     
  5. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,704
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Woking
    Ratings:
    +237
    I certainly agree that claimed specs should always be taken with a pinch of salt, but reading many of the reviews of the new RGB LED screens, it would seem that the black levels are indeed extremely impressive, and not just solid flat blacks but with plenty of detail and depth. Home Cinema Choice said the Sharp had blacks easily as good as the Kuro plasma range, maybe better!
    "In a dramatic demonstration, the brand's new 52 and 65-inch sets not only offered perfect black ('blacker than Pioneer's Kuro screens,' urged Mizushima-san) but astonishing colour fidelity, with a super-wide colour gamut delivering bright, bold reds (which can look orangey on CCFL-backlight LCDs"

    I have no affiliation with Sharp, LCD or LED. I actually own a 50" Pioneer plasma....I'm just saying this new technology could offer a viable alternative to those searching for the blackest of blacks in their TV image!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2009
  6. Chester

    Chester
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,750
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    137
    Location:
    Peterborough, Cambs, UK
    Ratings:
    +730
    This news from Pioneer has parallels in other technology sectors too. I have always tried to push the idea of quality of construction and materials, performance and other such benefits over value in computing. In the end most of these factors are heavily compromised by the argument of value. There are few of my friends/colleagues/clients that would now entertain a high-end notebook or PC. They'd rather sacrifice important features of a quality system in order to drive down costs.

    However, when this trend is bucked and the device is used in a real world scenario rather than just 'demo'd', I always receive feedback that they have made the right move.

    In the real world, most people want to balance performance and value, therefore compromising the former and being 'comfortable' with that decision. In the real world, manufacturers are trying to drive down cost and build higher quantities of fewer models to target the widest audience. The rest is niche and expensive to cater for. Inevitably, manufacturers, especially in today's climate with withdraw.

    This is business. Business is here to make money. Kuro was a brand that Pioneer sought to make money with, and it hasn't been the success they required it to be. But Volkswagen have redesigned the Golf to be more profitable, and I don't see Pioneer abandoning displays all together forever, so expect R&D to continue and when there is a solid business case for launching new displays in years to come, I fully expect Pioneer to supply to the high-end once more.

    I don't believe this is over. This is just the end of era, and I believe Pioneer will return.
     
  7. Craig uk

    Craig uk
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,420
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +978
    I will certainly be keeping an eye on led models as they start to become common place this year. Its not surprising these first gen panels are getting mixed reviews, but by the time the second/third gen panels come out I would expect them to be quite amazing.

    Another point I think is worth mentioning is that the kuro's were calibrators bread and butter, it will be interesting to see how damaging the knock on effect will be for home projects considering pretty much all other flatpanels offer very limited calibration options. Hopefully panasonics new range will offer improved picture adjustment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2009
  8. Axis-Paul

    Axis-Paul
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    61
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Ratings:
    +1
    Very sad news to here.

    I've just taken delivery of a new LX-5090 and what a piece of kit it is, well worth that little extra :smashin:
    even down to the remote shines quality through and through,

    Just need to sort a blu-ray player out now ?
    I'm thinking of buying the BDP-51fd any suggestions or thoughts on this, or any other player in the same-ish price
    bracket please

    Thanks P. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2009
  9. Harry1983

    Harry1983
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    602
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Middlesex
    Ratings:
    +94
    All i can say is DAMN! Who would have thought this just a year ago. Best buy 10....no make that 15 krp 500's and keep them in the loft, they should last me a life time! :suicide:
     
  10. tin69

    tin69
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    400
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Northolt
    Ratings:
    +46
    Gutted :( Just when I was wondering what the 10th generation would be like.
     
  11. mentaliss

    mentaliss
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    71
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    shoreham
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hi Guys

    I believe Pioneers decision was also determined from the fact that our masters in Europe have RULED that Plasma screens use too much energy therefore no more Plasma's, EU regulation is being finalised right now and becomes law sometime this spring, perhaps they should take a long hard look at all the 'Sky Scrapers' burning energy with lights being left on long past office hours as well!:cool:
     
  12. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
    Editor Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2001
    Messages:
    10,500
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    AVForums
    Ratings:
    +9,272
    Has no effect on any commercially available plasma screens. As usual our press went for the sensational story without checking their facts first.
     
  13. Cyril

    Cyril
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,113
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +39
    Especially when you consider that you will soon have to fork out over £8k for something similar in quality from the likes of B&O/Runco/Vidikron or Planar or Panasonic Pro (e.g.TH-65VX100) with a Lumagen Radiance XD!

    Gradually the price of the Panasonic Pro panels will drop though if you wait a few years!

    It seems that you either have to cater to mass-market or ultra-high-end to survive in today's market :(

    So not much room in the medium high-end sector to make a profit, hence the loss of Fujitsu and Pioneer.
     
  14. Marcus Wood

    Marcus Wood
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    376
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4
    Very sad news for anyone who appreciates quality AV equipment - and for Pioneer's employees and shareholders...

    I think the problem was that Pioneer were trying to sell Kuros in fairly high volumes, mainly through the big retailers.

    Unfortunately those retailers seem to make no effort demonstrate the TVs they're selling properly and have sales staff who have minimal training and minimal knowledge of what they're selling. I think these retailers are the real bad guys here.

    Example: I was in John Lewis at Canary Wharf once and overheard a couple asking the sales guy about Kuros - they had obviouly seen the Kuro advertisements. They asked if the Pioneer TV they were looking at was a Kuro (it was). The guy told them he wasn't sure what a Kuro was, but they didn't sell them... Also, most of the TVs at John Lewis Oxford Street
    are demoed with the worst SD content imaginable. And that's supposedly Britiain's most trusted retailer.

    There are probably enough people around who would be willing to pay more for a better quality product, but unless they search out information in forums like this, or they have a good custom installer, they are never going to know why something like a Kuro is worth paying extra for.

    Maybe if Pioneer could have sold at B&O or Loewe volumes/prices they could have succeeded, but possibly that wouldn't have generated enough cash to fund their R&D work.
     
  15. a4lloxo

    a4lloxo
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,177
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    the city or town where you live
    Ratings:
    +127

    mate,BUY A KURO.Buy the best one you can afford.You will be impressed.you will wonder why you ever considered anything else,believe me:thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2009
  16. a4lloxo

    a4lloxo
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,177
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    the city or town where you live
    Ratings:
    +127
    ive never seen a B&O screen,but i have to say of the B&O kit ive heard working that it was less than inspiring for the money,as for loewe,didnt they make some good crt sets around 9/10 years [email protected]
     
  17. andrew markwort

    andrew markwort
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,156
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +159
    Slightly off-topic, but they are.
     
  18. andrew markwort

    andrew markwort
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,156
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +159
    Those of you with a sensitive disposition should stop reading now.

    An acquaintance of mine, with way more money than sense, on principle buys the most expensive version of anything. So his main AV set up is a vast projection system with speakers the size of small houses. He uses it to watch the news and to the best of my knowledge only has a couple of DVDs. And he has two 60 inch Kuros - one in the kitchen, the other in the kids' playroom. The one in the kitchen has, as far as I'm aware, never been on. The one in the kids' playroom is used to show old [I know they're old, because we gave him them about ten years ago, and they were ancient then] VHS tapes of Postman Pat et al.

    I fear that this or similar is probably the fate of a depressingly high percentage of top end kit. It's bought by the very rich because they are told by a sales person it's the best they can get, and then it's never used.
     
  19. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    10,351
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Glasgow, UK
    Ratings:
    +1,312
    I know people similar to this - not ultra-rich, but they buy expensive equipment purely for the purpose of owning expensive equipment. I guess they're helping to drive the price down for everyone else, but it still makes me angry.
     
  20. Markk

    Markk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    75
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Ratings:
    +1
    I am a Pioneer Kuro dealer and owner.. I have put my money where my mouth is, I think it is sad that some of the best panels are no more.
    I think that Pioneer are the last brand actually really pushing plasma as the best (currently available technology) for watching movies.
    I know Panasonic etc make plasma TVs but I think this turn is not only the end of Pioneer Plasma. I think this is a turning point in the market, and actually the start of the death of plasma itself.

    Sad times indeed...
     
  21. mcclane22

    mcclane22
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    644
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Location:
    Nakatomi Tower!!
    Ratings:
    +215
    This is very sad news. I have a Pioneer PDP-436SXE plasma screen which is now going to last me longer than I thought and after all, they are built to last!! Keeping with Pioneer, I was planning on getting a blu ray player next month. Does anybody think I should stick with them or go with another make?:confused: Any suggestions are much appreciated!! By the way, it will be connected to a Rotel 1098 processor!

    Thanks!!!:)
     
  22. 5to1

    5to1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,929
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +758
    Isn't that just his perogative if he can afford it? And a reflection of the capitalist system under which we all prosper?

    I take it you or your family have never purchased a branded item? Do your kids walk around in the latest trainers when some kenyan athlete has to train in hand me downs?

    Throwing stones in glass houses comes to mind :nono:

    (PS I'm not saint either, but I try to refrain from pointing at the excesses of others when I know I have plenty of my own).
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2009
  23. 5to1

    5to1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,929
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +758
    Getting back on topic I'm in a bit of a quandry now. I had planned on buying a KRP600 in the next few months. However, this annoncement had made me rethink.

    Should I go for the 6090 instead, which has been in the market longer? Or simply wait and see what Panasonic and the remaining manufacturers bring?

    My main concern with the 600 is that its relatively new and therefore there is a greater chance it will suffer from niggles not yet highlighted by mass usage. Although Pioneer have said they will continue to support it, I know from experience these kind of announcements are usually followed by support being run down. So although major issues will be supported, the grumbles that affect a few probly will be met with refund or "its design intent".
     
  24. Timbo21

    Timbo21
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,684
    Products Owned:
    4
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +340
    What will this mean for specialist av retailers?

    They couldn't compete with the likes of Currys etc. when it came to Samsung, Panasonic, Sony etc., but were able to sell Kuros with the additional av gear.

    The other question is, did Pioneer need to sell G9 Kuros so cheaply? Info from friends who sold the G8 (which sold for £3.5K, as oppose to £2Kish, said they sold just as many G8 screens as G9.

    Additionally, I think consumers will have to take a collective responsibility if we eventually see rather poor quality Tv's which last only 2 years, since if we continue to demand cheaper electricals, build quality will have to suffer. The result a throwaway society. Clothes used to last 10 years plus, didn't they? Lucky if they last 12 months now. Tv's could go the same way. Not exactly environmental friendly, eh?
     
  25. 5to1

    5to1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,929
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +758
    Perhaps, but what were the competition selling at back when the G8's were selling for £3.5K?
     
  26. alsina

    alsina
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,796
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +605
    A Panasonic 42" HD Ready set at £2k and the 50" at £3k.
     
  27. tommygunn

    tommygunn
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Newmarket
    Ratings:
    +25
    i paid 3.5k for my 50" pioneer back in 2006. by far and away the greatest purchase i ever made. im truly saddened by the news. wont stop me maybe purchasing another one this year though. R.I.P pioneer plasma..
     
  28. Timbo21

    Timbo21
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,684
    Products Owned:
    4
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +340
    The competition weren't £1K cheaper.

    Panasonic's TH65PZ700 could be had for about £4K-£4.5K toward the end of it's life. the TH65PZ800 tho came back in at £5k, at least £500 more. Pioneer's price drop, and then the next gen comes back in even lower. Not quite the same is it?

    Pioneer must have made some serious losses on their LCD's. They were not competitively priced, at all. They are now cheaper, but they've missed the boat. LCD's should have been much cheaper and the plasmas more, IMO.

    Additionally, when you start to continuously cut the price of your Tv's, consumers get used to it and expect it to continue to drop, and so they wait..
     
  29. andrew markwort

    andrew markwort
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,156
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +159
    Err ... lighten up, it wasn't meant to be taken that seriously. ;)

    And in answer to your second question - I'm pleased to say that neither of my kids is a fashion victim and in any case I'm not sure that western kids buying designer clothes directly causes Kenyan athletes to train in hand me downs.
     
  30. Timbo21

    Timbo21
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,684
    Products Owned:
    4
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +340
    No, that's not right.

    The Kuro 42" was £1800, and the Panasonic was a good £400 cheaper. The panasonic TH50PZ700 50" was about £2800, IIRC.
     

Share This Page

Loading...