KURO is dead! A sad day for AV Fans….

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by Phil Hinton, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. ldoodle

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    Hope so too. There are far to many retailers pushing the 'they're all the same' line it's unreal.

    Everytime I go into Currys/Dixons/PC World etc etc I always hover round by the TV's to see what the sales people say.. makes me laugh!

    It's like saying all cars are the same, but the majority of people can see and understand they're not, so why do they fall for this rubbish.
     
  2. Sephiroth0000

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    You oblivously have not seen 'one' doing the rounds with HD content have you?! I am very proud of the setup I have been able to accomplish but if I am to stay with LCD/Plasma instead of going with a projector then it would be a 'Kuro' I would purchase next. Least I have until the end of the year to get one now :D
     
  3. Sephiroth0000

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    Tell me about it. I remember walking in there and having a discussion with a guy about 1080P and he did not have a clue what I was on about or it being FullHD and true 1920x1080 lines. If I remember his exact words was something like 'they're all the same' :D
     
  4. holiver

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    Terrible shame this as a new Pioneer customer. I chose my TV because of its quality across the whole package. I think product quality has been falling due to the demand for lower prices and I hope my TV stand the test of time.
     
  5. dazzler9000

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    I was in John Lewis yesterday and I overheard an elderly woman talking to the sales assistant about TV's, her quote "I've always associated Sony with quality" his quote “Sony TV’s are not very good” (not disputing this) “the only TV’s you can buy blindly are Panasonic and Phillips”

    I nearly fell over laughing, as I’m staring at the stunning pioneer KRP600.

    Where do they get them from??
     
  6. t-force

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    A very sad day for quality AV fans. I can feel happy in knowing that I have the best 42-inch plasma money can buy - 428XD, but sad in the fact that it won't be bettered in the near future.
     
  7. sjp1966

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    damn, i wanted to replace my TV with a Kuro. but as with all things it is cheapness that wins the day, quality gear will always be niche because it is so expensive, the general public dont see value in paying those prices.
     
  8. JeffD

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    Is there any hope Pioneer will sell or licence the the tech behind Kuro to someone like Panasonic? Surely it makes sense for Pioneer to at least recoup some money from their investment rather than leave the IP rights gathering dust.
     
  9. Sam

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    Just as my 508XD has started flickering occasionally. It's under extended warranty, but what good is that if they can't fix and there are no replacements... :(
     
  10. AdrianMills

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    I actually believe you and I think it's like DLP rainbows and motion blur; some people are far more susceptible than others and similarly, some, maybe a lot of people, really aren't able to discern the quality differences in screens.

    Personally, when I see my friends Pannys I can't help but think that they don't even come close to my Kuro; I think it's a glaring in you face difference too, not at all subtle as some people think. FWIW, I used to have one of the 500 Panny Vieras too.
     
  11. 961

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    Just finished talking to a pal who has a car dealership. He says times are tough and he is selling £6000/£8000 budget cars with 5 yr warranty, keeping his head down, and struggling with little help from the government

    He can sell me a pre reg £25k 4 x 4 fully loaded with 5 yr warranty for....£10k

    Last May, after the Chancellor announced big rises in car duty I decided to trade my Volvo V70 for a new Golf. The car brokers could only get £7k for my 28,000miles fully loaded Volvo. The Volvo dealer gave me book price (£10,500) against a new V50 diesel (45mpg, £160 road tax). He still has the V70, 9 months later

    Bearing in mind the going price for a crt telly in recent years you must be able to understand why folk are unwilling at the moment to splash out for a top price flat panel, and why, with current exchange rates, the Japanese manufacturers are in a no win situation

    It really is going to get worse before it gets better:mad:
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  12. splitp

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    maybe have to think about selling my 428xd now:eek:..... to get some funds for a krp 50 :devil: would love the 60 but cant really hammer the plastic right now.:(
     
  13. AgentCool

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    This is, like the end of Concorde was to the aviation industry, a step backwards. I only got my Pioneer LCD on Tuesday and now I'm even more glad that I did because it's so much better than any other LCD I've seen. Watching a couple of Blu-rays earlier, I was simply astonished how much better the picture was compared to my old Panasonic and my dad's 1 year old Toshiba. It's not as if it was expensive either, costing less than the equivalent Panasonic and with a 5 year warranty thrown in.

    Once again, cheapness reigns over progress and quality. We can only hope that, once the economy recovers, Pioneer can be tempted to make another go of the TV industry.
     
  14. dj-dulux

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    I was thinking the same, although I think it is unlikely. Panasonic and all the other big players already have great technology; they just choose not to use it due to cost. Look at the AVForums review of the Panasonic 65", they know how to get a fantastic picture and at 65", they just don't bother doing it for a £800 plasma....

    Dupe...
     
  15. stuman

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    what im hoping for is that when pioneer sold their soul to panasonic plasma wise that panasonic got the rights to the tech and subsequently produce a high end line encorperating this.

    failing that who does it leave us with in terms high quality gear?!?!?

    loewe? dont think so.

    lucky i've got my slice of pioneer pie.
     
  16. eiren

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    Exactly. It costs extra to produce the higher quality components, and they simply aren't going to do that.
     
  17. boksbox

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    How many times did you pay your own way on Concorde? I can't see the connection at all, Pioneer screwed up even nefore the credit crunch, they marketed to the converted.
     
  18. Stinkey

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    Sad sad sad! :rolleyes: I never got a chance to experience greatness in the comfort of my own home. Maybe, like said before, the price will drop and I will be able to afford one. I know the wife is looking for a new TV for the bedroom, maybe I can persuade her into getting a Kuro for the TV room and move the current set into the bedroom.
     
  19. Stuart

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    I really wouldn't pin any hopes on the prices dropping. With these being the last plasmas from Pioneer, demand will be much higher than before this news. Think how many were biding their time for a 10G that will never appear now. :lesson:
     
  20. paulst10

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    After only ever owning Pioneer plasmas, I feel quite gutted that I can no-longer buy another :(

    But as already mentioned, by the time I plan to upgrade from my 5090, I expect a new technology to prevail by then :smashin:

    At least there is not much chance of another manufacturer bettering what I have now for a good few years .. hopefully (to avoid temptation) :D
     
  21. Shenoizy

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    Sad news indeed in the AV world at least. This is quite likely and although the prices will be too high for the average punter when people realise that screens of this quality are not going to have decent competition for at least a year or two, they may struggle to take the last few. I'm so glad I got my KRP-500A over a month ago. The price is high but it easily has the best picture.
     
  22. Jackass

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    Long live the king's of plasma :(

    Bloody Fanny mae and freddy Mac, I blame them :D
     
  23. andrew markwort

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    Yes, I did, and in reply to the other post saying I couldn't tell the difference - I can. Over my time I've acted as a test participant for a number of colleagues doing psychophysics experiments and I know that my performance on visual sensitivity tasks is, modesty aside, well above average. But I stick by what I say - yes, I can see that Kuro was better, and no, it wasn't worth a grand or more than a good quality LCD. I can happily live with the 'imperfections' of a decent quality LCD and spend the remaining money on more personally rewarding things.

    It's like the old argument about cars. Yes, a top of the range Merc, Rolls, or whatever car you claim to mention is of course better than an average family saloon. But no way is the marginal return worth the extra outlay for most people. And that was my point - whilst fanboys for whom money is no object will rave about the Kuro (and with good reason I quickly add, before anyone flames me) for most people, including a lot of AV fans, the extra outlay was just ridiculous.

    I'm certainly not rejoicing that the Kuro is going, and I feel very sorry for anyone losing their job over this. But I'm not surprised. Whether this will have a long term effect remains to be seen. On a positive note, the departure of Kuro may encourage rival manufacturers to create a top of the range model that emulates it but isn't such a ridiculous price. We can dream can't we? ;)
     
  24. a4lloxo

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    A sad day.........looks like my 508xd will have to last forever.....
     
  25. Pecker

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    Look on the bright side - if you buy a new Pio today, how long will it last?

    Surely 10 years, unless you have it switched on day and night.

    And I struggle to believe that no one will have come up with something at least as good within a decade - whether that's better Pannys, or LEDs on LCD TVs, or OLED, or whatever.

    Your 9th gen Pio will not self-destruct on the 1st of March next year.

    Steve W
     
  26. Phil Hinton

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    There seems to be this argument about price, but really it wasn't that expensive for what you got. The Pioneer sets are head and shoulders above the rest for some simple reasons.

    Best black level and dynamic range on any available consumer TV. Most accurate measured performance by any TV in an out of the box preset, almost broadcast standard. Some of the best processing available on a consumer TV. Advanced filter technology to stop ambient light washing out the screen.

    No other consumer TV I have seen - including the new LED and 2009 sets, can match the Pioneer is all those areas. That's why it costs what it costs. If the others could do the same cheaper they would have by now.

    The problem is for whatever reason when it comes to picture - people are not that bothered about what the director intended, or they just don't realise they are not seeing the entire image. I have only seen Pioneer and lately LG actually making their sets as good as possible to standards out of the box. (Yet the LG fails in more areas such as black and dynamic range). Then you have so called expert TV reviewers in the press (claiming to have ISF training) who just simply don't get it and actually award inaccurate, garish looking displays with top marks when really they have the power to get more out of public perception towards accurate and good quality displays. If they knew what was what, maybe every manufacturer would have to improve their technology. Pioneer on the other hand know whats right and made an effort to try and get the market moving in the right direction - which is not cartoon colours and garish bright images. But that seems to be an impossible mountain to climb with so much misinformation and reluctance to educate, and a public that don't even know that TV pictures and films are made to a standard that if your set is not right, you don't get close to what was intended. - sorry end of rant.

    Now Panasonic make good products, but they are no where near in all the same areas of performance, the consumer sets are built to a price point. The really expensive Pro models do offer something very special, but at twice the price of the Kuro and with not quite the same black levels. Then you have Sony's new LED TV which costs - £3500 and fails in almost all the standards that the Kuro hits.

    Yes, the Pioneer screens cost slightly more than the rest, but in my opinion it was because they offered a number of things no other set on the market can, or probably will be able to match for at least the next 18-24 months. That's why losing Kuro will not suddenly see the others step up all of a sudden, if anything, why do they need to now? and if they could, it wouldn't be any cheaper for that level of performance.....
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  27. andrew markwort

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    Phil, I don't disagree with a word you've said. But you're in the diehard AV fan group. And that's the point - to you it makes sense. For anyone not in this group but who nonetheless likes good quality AV kit, the extra outlay just didn't seem worth it. It's not that we couldn't see the difference, and we know all about what the director intended, etc, but we could put up with the 'inferior' sets and be happy with it, because for us, they're close enough.

    That isn't an attack on anyone who wants to pay these prices or strives for that sort of perfection. My main hobby is golf - I pay what most of you guys would consider daft prices for lumps of metal on the end of metal sticks that are custom fitted. I play marginally better and get a better more responsive feel from them than from e.g. a cheap beginner's set. And for me that's worth the outlay. But I can fully understand someone saying that for them it's dumb paying out all that money for a marginal improvement in quality of experience and play. If it's something you enjoy and get genuine pleasure from, but it's nonetheless not a burning interest, it just ain't worth it. And I think in this regard Pioneer misjudged the number of diehard fans as opposed to keen but not that keen consumers.
     
  28. hornydragon

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    WHy is everyone so knickers in a twist over this? I don't get it No one mourned the demise of NEC PDP (sold to pioneer for pioneer shares?) or Fujitsu... (who may come back to the table?) Pioneer isnt "high end" in real terms its mass market BMW if you like I'm not saying pioneer ar ebad but they aren't all that... For thos eof that remeber the days when a 50" screen cost £7k and a £3k 42" were a bargain its all relativ epioneer are a small company and heavily in volved in one sector, Matsush*ta, Samsung, LG are all much larger and diversified corporations able to spread the load more I dont think this is the last of manufacturers going down the tubes but it is heading us to the "one TV" market ruled by Tescos where any old rubbish ina box labelled Super HD 10000000:1 contrast and 25 HDMI5.8C inputs sells for £99. As long as there are people who appreciate the difference there willl be something to fullfill the gap.
     
  29. Phil Hinton

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    But, why should you put up with 'they're close enough'. Actually, there are very few that even manage that. The argument is that Pioneer were doing all the right things and making their competition 'have to' look at doing the same. LG followed suit with ISFccc and really good presets out of the box. This is where the market should be heading, instead of saying, well its close enough. If the market is forced to finally get their act together and give us displays that at least attempt to show images as they should be, then that can only be a good thing. My fear is that with the continuation of reviews which haven't got a clue what they're talking about and not testing correctly and the loss of at least one manufacturer that did get it, we will end up losing what small momentum we had in getting the right standards in almost every TV - at all price points (well maybe not the tesco area).
    Not having a go - just pointing out what frustrates the most.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  30. Superwof

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    What a sad thing to happen! One quality brand less to choose from. I'm so happy with my 608, wouldn't know what to replace it with if it ever broke down, except another Pioneer.....

    Pioneer plasma R.I.P.
     

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