Krell 300i via Receiver.

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by Gorecon, Oct 22, 2004.

  1. Gorecon

    Gorecon
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    I have recently been loaned a Krell 300i Integrated amp to try out.
    I have hooked it up in this method:
    CD Player connected to the Krell via analogue leads.
    Used the Pre-Out on the Krell to connect to my Denon Receiver Ext-In inputs. (Denon 3802)
    Left and right speakers are wired to my Denon Receiver so I select the Ext-In setting on the receiver.

    I am getting sound through. (Very nice sound in fact) But I wanted to check that I am not missing anything.
    The volume controls both operate independently (as expected)
    But I am a little confused with the term “Pre-Out” on the Krell.
    Am I getting the true sound? Or is my Receiver acting as a power amp and the Krell a Pre-Amp?
    I obviously don’t won’t my Receiver interfering with the sound at all.

    Also is there any danger of overloading my speakers? I have the volume at a sensible level. But with 2 volumes working independently is there a risk?
    Excuse me for what are probably fairly easy answers but I have not dabbled in Hi-fi equipment being linked to AV equipment before.

    Thanks
     
  2. alexs2

    alexs2
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    All you're doing with things wired up that way is to use the Krell as a preamp for the Denon.
    What you really want to do if you want a proper comparison,is to wire your speakers to the Krell,and use it as intended,as an integrated amp,and then swap things over to the Denon(i.e.CD input and speaker outs) and compare the results....a lot more fiddly,but the only way of getting a true comparison.

    I would imagine that you will find that the results of using the Krell separately will be far better than having it held back by the Denon's power stages.
     
  3. Gorecon

    Gorecon
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    Thanks for that Alexs2.
    I thought that was the case.

    It is alot more fiddly as you say but should be worth it.
    The sound I am getting at the moment is pretty impressive at the moment.

    Spent most of the early hours of this morning listening to my CD collection again! :laugh:
     
  4. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Well worth the extra affort.....for a "baby" Krell,the 300i is a very impressive amp,with a very good pre and power section in it,and a lot of reserve(doubling the output into 4 ohms)but obviously not a full Class A design throughout.

    Let me know what you think when you've wired it all properly.
     
  5. Gorecon

    Gorecon
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    You obviously know and love your Krells. :D

    So I was wondering if you know anything about this AV pass-through on the Krell? I have heard it is an internal jumper?
    Do you know what it exactly does. I have read somewhere it allows you to control the volumes together? As well as some sort of Pre-Amp facility?
     
  6. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Quite so!...I havent found many others that have the same combination of brute force,and relative subtlety,plus absolute load tolerance.
    As to the AV Krells,I don't know much about the internals.....an internal jumper is usually a link in the signal pathway that is either in place or removed to enable/disable a function such as signal routing.
    For the sort of use you're quoting there,it may disable the internal volume control possibly,but thats a guess....sorry!
     
  7. Gorecon

    Gorecon
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    Well I have tried the setup in all of the combinations.
    The last one being the Krell wired upto the speakers directly.
    I have to say the difference was spectacular!
    No A/B comparison needed hear. Even someone with cloth ears would hear the differences easily.
    I am stunned by the performance. Listening to all sorts of music.
    But Jazz being particulary nice.
    Diana Krall sounded great. The detail of her voice coming through very well.
    I won't go into all details but I have been revisiting alot of my CD's again.

    One last note. Is there a way of wiring up my system so that I can have the Krell doing the CD playing duties as well as having my AV kit doing the movie stuff without having to physically change the speaker cables everytime? :rolleyes:
    I have a sub woofer with line level inputs etc. Is this a possiablity?
    Surely there is a way around this as I am sure alot of people have this type of setup.
     
  8. gwc

    gwc
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    Hi Gorecon,

    I am currently in the process of combining my Hifi with my AV kit and need to do the same thing with my pre-amp and AV processor.

    I assume you are going to use the Krell for the L/R channels as well as your CD playing.

    Here is how I am going to do it ( I am subsituting your kit for mine)


    Take the Front L/R pre-out from the Denon an feed it to one of your spare stereo inputs on your Krell.

    Set your Krell Volume control to a known position one ( say 9 o'clock, if it has a digital readout for the volume even better).

    Adjust the speaker gains on the Denon using an SPL so they match.

    Now when you want to listen to a CD just use the Krell. When you want to watch a move set the Krell to your designated Denon input, set the volume control the known position and use the Denon as the master volume.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers

    gwc


     
  9. Gorecon

    Gorecon
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    I was thinking of the Pre-Outs on my Denon but will that not then be processed by the Denon and then again by the Krell.
    Also (forgive me ignorance) where do I wire the L/R channels to?
    The Krell or my Denon Receiver?
     
  10. gwc

    gwc
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    You want the processed so that it matches your centre and rear speakers.

    The L/R channels will be Wired to krell so when listen to CD you can take adavantage of the superior amplification.

    You want to check that the input you choose on your Krell can take the output level of the Denon Pre Outs.


    I shall knock up a drawing to try and make my ramblings a bit clearer.

    Cheers

    gwc
     
  11. gwc

    gwc
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    I have enclosed a quick drawing in word format. I have missed of the centre speaker and sub to keep it less cluttered.

    Cheers

    gwc
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Gorecon

    Gorecon
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    Thanks for the diagram. Appreciate the time and effort of that.
    The only thing is that if I use the Pre-Outs on the Denon is it not processing the signal itself and then it passing it onto Krell which then acts as a Power Amp?
    So I would not be getting the Stereo processing by the Krell?
     
  13. gwc

    gwc
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    Hi,

    This will only be true for movies the CD will just use the Krell.

    Which I assumed is what you wanted to do (your post 23/10/04).

    Cheers

    gwc


     
  14. robfitzp

    robfitzp
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    The point of the AV bypass on the Krell is to set the gain to a known level, bypassing the volume control. On a later 300il you can configure any input as AV bypass, just plug the denon front L/R pre out into the input you have configured as AV bypass. Rest as per drawing above but you won't need to muck about with volume on the Krell when using the Denon for films.
     
  15. gwc

    gwc
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    Don't know the krell kit at all that is why I suggested a spare stero input. If it has an AV bypass even better.
     
  16. pcavelle

    pcavelle
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    Krell 'Theater Throughput' bypasses volume and balance for a given input, normally S4. Then the processor takes over raising the volume for the main stereo pair, via your Krell, the receiver usually handling centre plus rears directly, or via another three channel amp.

    I'm using a Denon in this way too ie main-channel preamp out from Denon into S4 of my Krell pre, and from then into the Krell stereo amp. It's a great combination, and the Krell amps are almost in a league of their own.

    Paul
     
  17. robfitzp

    robfitzp
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    GWC

    Effect is the same anyway, bypass is just a convenience feature.

    Cheers
    Rob
     
  18. Gorecon

    Gorecon
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    I have managed to Pre-Out from my Denon Receiver and all is working ok.
    (Although I will try this S4 input to see if I can sych the volumes)
    Quick question. As it stands at the moment I have to adjust to volumes.
    One for the Denon Amp for the Centre and Rears and one for the L/R on the Krell.
    I am noticing that I am having to turn the volume up alot more on the Krell, than if I was listening to stereo music. About half way.
    Will I damage my speakers as they are rated at 120W and the Krell can output 200W?
    Obviously the sound is not particulary loud it is just that I am having to turn the volume up more?

    I guess what I am trying to say does a speaker get damaged when nothing is being played through it even though the volume say is on maximum?
     
  19. gwc

    gwc
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    Your Krell is really acting as a power amp, your only using the pre-amp stage to route the signal to the power stage. Set the volume to a known position and set-up all your level using the Denon.

    As to speaker damage you should be okay, I have been told that speakers only really get damage if the amp starts clipping or distorting the signal (I have a limited experience with speaker design), but as it's a Krell don't think you will suffer from that (plenty power).



    Cheers

    gwc
     
  20. robfitzp

    robfitzp
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    Exactly what I was going to say.

    You won't damage your speakers - the bypass mode ramps the gain upto reference level anyway & the volume control attenuates the signal down from that level.
     

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