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Kramer's VERY happy - his SONY VPL-HS10 has arrived!

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Kramer, Dec 18, 2002.

  1. Kramer

    Kramer
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    OK, so nearly everyone knew what is was going to be, but some weren't sure. 'twas fun while it lasted.

    Collected at 3pm today.

    BIG box - in perfect condition. Phew, what a relief :)

    Quick check through interlaced S-video (Pioneer DV444) - worked!

    Watched a bit through S-video - WOW - this thing is bright. Quickly switched to cinema black mode & tweaked a bit.

    OK, the old problems with S-video: unnatural looking fleshtones, unpure colours etc..., but...

    NO screendoor :eek:

    The pixels are tiny by comparison with the AE-100, & VERY closely packed. The panel structure is visible up to about 4" from the screen & then quickly disappears.

    No "black" areas (as in mesh) whatsoever between the individual pixels.

    Quick check for dead/open pixels (very difficult given their microscopic nature) revealed a clean bill of health.

    TBH, I'd say 4/6 dead pixels would go unnoticed by most. Open however might be different, but 1 single open pixel on the periphery wouldn't be anywhere as irriating as on an AE-100.

    Doesn't matter now, ALL 3.1 million on mine are perfect :p

    Looks like Sony's "failsafe" technology, quality control & manufacturing process has finally rid LCD PJs of this problem.

    Panasonic's new "smoothscreen" technology (I've had reservations about this anyway) ISN'T necessary given the results from these Sony panels.

    The unit itself IMO is classy. Beautifully finished. Small touches like the illuminated Sony logo on top, while adding nothing to performance/PQ, are nice to see, & clearly elevate this unit above Panasonic's offerings.

    The remote is also nice, with an amber/orange backlight.

    Comes with a 10m composite/S-video/Component "multi cable", cinema black filter & spare air filter.

    Also nice to see a glass cover over the large front opening outside the lens.

    Excellent package throughout, great looking unit & useful accessories (never used the "carry bag" supplied with the AE-100, pity Sony didn't include one :D ).

    Hooked up the PC through DVI, browse of AVS for Powerstrip parameters & off I went.

    Windows desktop looks absolutely sweet through DVI, even in 1024x768 (XGA) mode.

    Limited success with DVI for now though, as the best I can achieve is 1360x768 @ 56Hz. This however is pixel perfect with Mark's DILA test pattern displayed perfectly.

    Problem is there's an area of unused pixels surrounding/framing the image. Roughly 16 pixels all around. I sent the PJ several similiar resolutions at/near 1366x768, but this area still persists. The PJ sees all (well ones I've tried) resolutions @56hz as "#51 Special mode 1366x768".

    I've been in the service menu also (Christ it's exhaustingly long - must be >100 different adjustments available in the "factory service" area), so I'm sure I'll eventually get a full screen 1:1 image with DVI.

    The peeps over at avs claiming to have this haven't ever given exact details, so IMO their claims can be disregarded.

    Picture (without any calibration) from Power DVD via DVI in 1360x768 is MINDBLOWING :eek:

    Watched some of LOTR (start especially) & it was like looking through a window :eek: I can only imagine what this will produce with perfect 1:1, calibrated with Avia etc...

    That's all for now I'm afraid - going to play some more :p

    Some pics of the box/unit/accessories below.

    [​IMG]

    Need to mount it, receive my longer DVI cable & calibrate before any further appraisal, but all I can say at the moment is

    WOW - I'm gobsmacked ;)

    edited with resized pics!
     
  2. theritz

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    Kramer,

    Let me be the first - congrats, its a gorgeous looking piece of kit !

    dying to hear more details, where did you get it, how much, did you see a demo first, etc. and especially whats it like in full action - any chance of screenshots ?

    All the best,


    Sean G.
     
  3. Dak

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    Kramer

    Sounds excellent, lost me with all the technical stuff but sounds good!!

    Just wondered if you have played with the sideshot thing? I am considering one of these and will need to set it approx 4ft off centre at the back of the room (14 foot room so guess 12 foot throw?).

    Just wondered 'cos Sony seem a bit coy about putting out figures it seems.

    Anyway, Enjoy - LOTR 2 on the horizon?!

    Dak

    PS Did you audition is against the NEC HT1000 at all?
     
  4. richard plumb

    richard plumb
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    kramer

    Nice, but could you post smaller pics to fix the thread? I'm guessing it might get big once you post decent impressions and theritz gets online, and its difficult to read at 1024x768
     
  5. Comer

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    Well Done Kramer and as we say here "Well wear". I'd love to have a look-see sometime in the new year (if you're not too upset at my mentioning your name in my little joke post:) ) As u know this pj is top of my list because of the long throw


    Conor
     
  6. petrolhead

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    Hope you are happy with your new toy:

    As for the pics, could you get any bigger :)
     
  7. selexus

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    Kramer,

    I've ordered mine yestereday, should be delivered before the weekend:D :D
    I'm so glad that you find it such a good buy, and consider there's more PQ to come with some tweaking.
    I think this Xmas is going to be a very happy one:)

    Cheers
     
  8. petrolhead

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    So how much are you guys paying for this Model?
     
  9. selexus

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    £2175 + P&P from a UK supplier, but i get to claim the VAT back ;)
     
  10. theritz

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    Kramer..............

    ...............................was last seen wielding an ash plant, alternately whipping his Ford Anglia - watercooled HCPC, and his new HS10, rasping in a low coarse voice, " I said I want those last pixels, and by God you're going to give them to me !!"

    This explains the delay in Kramer posting any further impressions of his new toy, and is testament to his dedication in search of full 1:1 pixel perfect match via DVI, for the benefit of all projector folk.


    BTW, for the uninitiated, an ash plant is part of the root of an ash tree, with a large ugly lump on the end, used in proper fighting, often mistaken for a shillelagh, an object much beloved of the tourist industry and Hollywood - the shillelagh is a much inferior weapon, being a cutting from a blackthorn tree, comprising a young shoot about 18" long and a short (4") section of the branch from whence it came, used for settling minor arguments ( e.g. "I'll crack ye with me shillelagh"). The functional advantage of an ash plant is the flexibility of its shaft, its superior length and the added weight of the aforesaid ugly lump on the end.


    This has been a Public Service Broadcast.


    Thank You.


    Sean G.



    P.S. Kramer, get your finger out m8.................. getting bored waiting to hear more.........
     
  11. Timh

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    Congratulations on your new baby :) I got the weight correct then :D
    I can only dream of the image you are seeing now :( still I am more than happy with my AE100 for the next few years, by then Contrast should be up to 1500 ;) :)
    Them pics are small :eek:
     
  12. Kramer

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    Thanks Sean - my thoughts exactly ;)

    Hi Dak,

    Not really played with this at all, but it does seem to work well.
    I'll be mounting it 2morrow (today now lol) with 0 keystone (horizontal & vertical). Not a big fan of digital picture correction. Besides the light overspill the correction also interferes significantly with the image quality.

    Wouldn't be as noticeable with S-video etc... but with a well set HTPC, where ultimate PQ is paramount, keystone correction is the enemy!

    Sorry :blush: Fixed now.

    No problem Conor. Will be in touch when it's mounted/calibrateed etc..

    Bin that list :eek: You'll be getting a HS-10 guaranteed!

    Can get a 6 mega pixel jobbie if you think they're (now were) a bit small ;) Cheers.
     
  13. Kramer

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    Hi guys,

    Been busy all day/evening - bloody work. Feel like retiring but a bit away from that yet :(

    Should be mounting it today - some serious calculations/positioning problems with the long throw. Just my room layout. Will have it sorted later though.

    My long DVI cable hasn't arrived yet, so when it goes on the wall I'll be back to S-video. Hopefully I'll have the cable later today.

    Some pics:
    [​IMG]
    Here the glass front cover's removed & shows the pink tinted cinema filter supplied with the unit.
    [​IMG]
    Quick shot of the rear panel connections.
    [​IMG]
    The snazzy illuminated remote - taken in darkness to show the effect.

    Haven't even switched it on today :( , but spent several hours watching last night. Still haven't managed to get rid of the border around the image using DVI at/near native resolution. So I zoomed the picture to fill the viewable area of the screen (the black screen border did an excellent job of absorbing the overspill).

    Quick cal with Avia (very quick - just the main settings) & watched some of several films & all of Pulp Fiction (recent SE c/w DTS - NTSC).

    Impressions:

    Black levels are definately better than the AE-100, but only in certain circumstances! In a dark film/scene (I mean dull as in Pitch Black/Panic Room etc..), there's not much in it. Blacks are definitely no where near black. There is ample shadow detail (after Avia) when graphics output is calibrated, but this was true of the AE-100 also, & is largely due to the source.

    Where the HS-10 kicks the AE-100's ass is in contrasting scenes. Specifically daylight/well lit scenes. Here, the improved contrast ratio is clearly evident. The "whites" & bright areas are so much brighter that the perception of black is greatly enhanced. eg. a dark jacket (Mr.Wolf's tux) appears black against the bright background, whils still maintaining excellent shadow detail. I know all LCDs excel here, but the HS-10 is eons better than the AE-100.

    Again, excellent detail in bright scenes all round, far more "lively" & vivid than on the AE-100.

    To quantify the improvement, the AE-100 is a "poor relation" in terms of PQ. Night & day difference :eek:

    Absolutely no screendoor/panel structure evident. This PJ really demands a bigger screen :eek: IMO a 110" (diag) will be no problem, & viewing distances of 1:1 (screen width/viewing distance) are more than possible without concern.

    All viewing so far has been through DVI with a Radeon 9700Pro (WC'ed - Comer;) ). Colours are pure & static & while not 100% acurate at the moment (need to calibrate properly) are still a vast improvement over the AE-100. Again, the increased lumen output & contrast ratio IMO are largely responsible. The WXGA panels also play a part of course :D

    PQ is outstanding in ALL areas. No stairstepping, just a smooth vivid picture, full of life with masses of detail. The increased sense of depth is also drastic. The AE-100 looked flat by comparison.

    Any AE-100 owners shouldn't think I'm "anti" that unit. Reason I refer to it so much is I owned a couple for the last 9 months. It's a great PJ given it's price, & I certainly wouldn't have a HS-10 if it weren't for Panasonic's offering.
     
  14. Kramer

    Kramer
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    Finally,

    IMO the HS-10 looks the biz. It's well built, fully customisable (jees the myriad of options/settings in the "factory settings" hidden menu is mindblowing :eek: ) with vertical/horizantal keystone correction (vertical being fully automatic if so desired), motorised focus & zoom, memory stick (will put that to good use someday - a customised "welcome to Kramer's Home Cinema" is on the cards) & every required input/option is available.

    No vertical banding, no colour tinting - no picture/screen abnormalities whatsoever.

    Noise levels aren't too bad. In "cinema black" mode it's on a par with the AE-100, maybe even slightly louder. It's hard to say exactly as my Panasonic was ceiling mounted in a different position. I'd have preferred a quieter unit TBH, but we can't always have what we want :mad:

    There's no "fan speed-up" at powerdown - the fan(s) run at the same speed for longer, maybe 90 seconds.

    Things I'd like improved? Well so far, black level in low light scenes, reduced fan noise (match my "ultra quiet" PC - might have a go at WC'ing the Sony - any advice Conor? ...... :D ), & easier access to 1:1 pixel mapping over DVI.

    The latter I believe we'll achieve eventually. If not/in the interim, I may acquire Sony's VGA cable. I assume the problems with DVI won't reoccur via VGA, so 1:1 is presently possible. Having seen DVI though, I'd far prefer this option.

    Any questions I'll endeavour to answer in this thread, so fire away! When properly mounted/calibrated, I'll post some screen shots, but with Christmas fast approaching & work commitments etc...it may take a little while.

    Will post again when I can, & if any "experts" out there have suggestions about DVI/hear of developments at avs, please let me know. 1:1 via DVI with no "overscan/framing" is my #1 priority.

    Slan leat (Irish for "giddy up").
     
  15. Dan18

    Dan18
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    hello all

    After reading this forum for months I couldnt contain myself any longer and ordered my HS10 from Price Japan on Monday night......arrived in perfect condition Thursday morning. Incredible service. All buttons, remote and manuals in English to my relief. Just had to use a plug adaptor and hey presto I was in cinema heaven.

    This is my first projector and I am amazed at how good it is. Watched Matrix last night. The 10 ft image on our magnolia wall via the stock Sony S video cable from Arcam DV27 is bright, sharp and detailed. I can't wait to see what it looks like on a proper screen via progressive component. As far as I can tell there are no dead pixels. I am very pleased that I bought a projector instead of a plasma. There is no going back after this.

    :D
     
  16. Comer

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    Excellent Stuff Kramer

    You're a credit to your country, this forum and perhaps this entire planet (County Kilkenny not included) and dare I say it: an inspiration to us all. I really look forward to seeing this projector in action and don't worry about the fan noise, I'll bring down my water-cooling equipment and we'll have that sucker running silent in no time:) (i might also bring my mother in-law to supervise any electrical work involved)

    Conor
     
  17. theritz

    theritz
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    AAaaaaaaarrggggghhh !!

    Hand out the sou'westers and galoshes, have lots of new fuses close by, Comer's in the house, hose in hand (ooeer).

    If you're going to watercool it, Conor, I'm definitely coming down to have a look see !!!!


    Kramer, you have PM.


    Sean G.
     
  18. Kramer

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    Thanks stevenr,

    Will be looking into such improvements in due course. Once some "videofiles" over at avs start tweaking I think improvements with filters/factory menu will be prolific. This thing can only get better!

    I assume better manufacturing processes & Sony's "twin drive" technology are responsible.

    This was one of the main reasons I opted for the Sony - around 10 peeps AFAIK had received the HS-10 & all had no defects.
     
  19. Kramer

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    OK, quick update.

    My long DVI cable didn't arrive today as hoped :( Still a chance it'll be here tomorrow/over the weekend - fingers crossed.

    Mounted PJ earlier, so now reduced to interlaced S-video. The picture is now unwatachable :eek: It's not that it's THAT bad, but by comparison with HTPC via DVI - it's utter c*ap :( Too long watching the AE-100 in 1:1 has ruined me. It's amazing how critical one becomes with constant exposure to a "smooth, vibrant, noise free & crisp" picture. I can't even get decent shadow detail using Avia as my player hasn't got the necessary adjustments. Come on Mr. postman - where's my DVI?

    Now that it's mounted in a similar position to the AE-100, it's actually slightly more noisy - a little more noticeable. Not by much but still - the AE-100 was better in this department.

    Here's a screenshot of Shrek (again via the dreaded S-video):
    [​IMG]

    I haven't done anything other than crop/resize. Shrek's face against the darker background is an example of the improved contrast ratio.

    Here's a shot taken approx 18 inches from the screen. Save it & zoom in on the green area. The individual pixels can just be made out, but there's no dark mesh between them. This is the closest my camera will go without blurring.
    [​IMG]

    IMO screendoor is a non-issue with the HS-10. No "smoothscreen" required, just small pixels, tightly packed - & lots of 'em :)

    This is what the "illuminated" Sony logo on top of the unit looks like in darkness - nice finishing touch.
    [​IMG]

    Will post a shot of it mounted later/2morrow - when my the cables are tidy.

    Byeeeeeeeee.
     
  20. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    I know photographs don't truly show of a projected image correctly, but that looks pretty good! :)

    Can't wait to see the htpc version....

    Gary
     
  21. theritz

    theritz
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    Kramer,


    That is what I call screenshots !!:D


    Now having mixed feelings - admire nice piece of kit, glad that you're happy, bleedin' jealous - I want one too, whinge, whinge !!

    Really, tho' can't wait to see it !!

    BTW - details of where you got it, did you see demo, how much, how long did it take from order to delivery..... ????


    See ya,


    Sean G.
     
  22. Kramer

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    Thanks Gary.

    I think the second "screendoor" shot is really revealing - 18 inches away from the screen :eek: This is an excellent representation of the reality - there is NO screendoor.

    Trust me when I say that the picture via S-video is appalling compared to DVI. When my cable arrives I'll use a 5/6 mega pixel camera for some huge shots, but I'll not put them in this thread - that would slow it down too much for those on a 56k connection. I'll post links instead.

    Guess I'll have to watch something later - not LOTR SE though - saving that for DVI ;)
     
  23. Kramer

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    Hi Sean,

    Didn't demo it before hand - took a chance on the spec. Glad I did now.

    Can't say exactly where I got it, but sufficeth to say I've a very good friend in the trade. Asked him to do some research about a month ago. He called me about 10 days ago with the good news - I can get you one ;), but it's not going to be from Sony UK.

    It cost €3050 all in (Vat included - no nasty bills to arrive later). The VAT content was €312 :mad: Still, I can't complain - the Irish RRP straight from Sony is €4399 :eek: , & Sony Ireland/UK are quoting a January release with an "on street" date of mid/late February.

    I did consider PriceJ..com & would have gone that route if he didn't come through.

    What d'ya reckon I should watch tonight then Sean?

    All this talk of Shileaghs - Ryan's Daughter/The Field?

    Chat later.
     
  24. theritz

    theritz
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    VERY interesting way of sourcing your kit, you 'orrible little man - that was a cracking price, esp. considering the kind of money even an AE100 costs here (still 2500 Euros list, afaik), and when I was shopping in August, the HS1 was 3200 Euros ! :eek: Well Done !!!


    What to watch.... mmmmmmm..... Well if it has to be Svideo and shillelaghs, then it has to "The Quiet Man" - good shillelagh - factor, lots of begorrah references, one of the best on screen scraps of all time, nice grainy Technicolor, Maureen O'Hara being stroppy and compliant by turn, what more could you ask for ?? Alternate - Manhattan, NY streetscape movie of all time ???

    Just got AOTC myself, going to mix a nice drinkie, (nippy sweetie - ask Billy Connolly !) put up my pins and enjoy !! Stop fretting about your bloody DVI cable and do the same thing !!!!!!



    Cheers !!


    Sean G.
     
  25. Kramer

    Kramer
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    Sounds like a plan ;)

    Kramer - signing out!

    now where's that lovely illuminated remote - ahh, there it is! Let the games commence

    :cool:
     
  26. Timh

    Timh
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    :eek: for s-video your screen shots look bl**dy amazing, as for the colours :eek:
    Kramer, Are you modifying your AE100 mount or are you going for a new one?
     
  27. Klippie

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    Kramer

    Just saw your screen shots.....WOW.

    I bought an HS10 today and would like to go down the HCPC route to get as clear an image as possible.

    Could you give me the specs of your computer ie graphics and sound card and also the software you are running.

    Does the sound of the computer fans intrude on the film sound track more than the noise from the projector.

    Cant wait to get this thing set up.
     
  28. Kramer

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    Hi Tim,

    It looks even better "in the flesh" as it were.

    New mounting arrangement I'm afraid - old "telescopic" AE-100 mount is now retired & a new "modified" wall mount is now employed. From calculations etc... I envisaged this, & hope for an "out of room" PJ mount - hence noise free. New 8" screen required for this though, but this PJ demands something bigger!

    New mount arrangement pictured below.

    Hi Klippie,

    Those screenshots are via S-video - awaiting a new longer DVI (maybe VGA) cable at the mo. Now mounted I can't connect my PC to the HS-10 :(. Tomorrow hopefully.

    Well if you noticed Comor's recent "I flooded my PC" thread, you'll notice I'm watercooled. CPU/GPU/Nth/bridge are all watercooled & the 550w PSU is also modded & is absolutely whisper quiet. There is NO noise whatsoever from my PC - absolutely silent.

    Spec is:

    AMD XP2400+ @ 2.5gHz(XP3100+ equalivent)
    Epox 8K5A2+
    512mb Ram @ 205FSB
    Radeon 9700Pro @ 415/730mHz.
    2x80gb WD SEs in raid 0.
    XP Pro/Power DVD 4.0/Zoomplayer front end/Audigy 2/PCTV Rave/Dscaler.

    No fans in the room - the res/rad/2x120mm fans (@5v) are exterior to the building :eek: Ultra performance & ultra quiet.

    Consequencely ANY noise is noticeable in the room - hence the HS-10 fan noise is a problem. Slightly more noticeable than the AE-100, but not too bad. Working on riding myself of all extraneous noise, so either W/Cool the PJ or remove it from the room. The latter looks more likely (Comer ;) ).

    Some small pics of my mounting arrangement/Usual Suspects below.
     
  29. Kramer

    Kramer
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    Some pics of my mounting arrangement:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here's one taken in darkness showing the "snazzy" illuminated (switchable) Sony logo on the top (bottom if ceiling mounted):
    [​IMG]

    A shot from The Usual Suspects (NTSC).
    [​IMG]

    Notice how "darker" Gabriel Byrnes hair seems against the white background versus the difference between the "overspill" area caused by a 2.35:1 image on a 1.85:1 screen.

    All via S-video on a 92" diagonal screen.

    More to come..................DVI................unbelieveable :eek:
     
  30. Timh

    Timh
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    Kramer

    No wonder it makes more noise than the AE100 :eek: look at the size of them fans on the top photo, is one the intake and the other the out-take fan?
    Nice tv bracket, hope you don't bang your head when entering the room :D
    My Brother recently fitted his PLV-30 over his door, on the other side though to reduce fan noise to virtually zero.
     

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