Ken Kreisel Quattro Q125, TriFX, DXD-12012 - personal review

RickyDeg

Well-known Member
^ Correct. That was part of the impressions I took with me after the private demo.
 

Member 116841

Distinguished Member
It is very surprising just how the Quattros blend with the DXD subs - totally seamless. I've owned (and heard) quite a few Miller & Kreisel and MK Sound systems over the past 10 years and the Quattros are in a different league in this respect. I started off with just the DXD12012 when it was launched, which sounded brilliant with the LEF LS50s as satellite speakers, but when the Quattros were added, they stepped up several notches!

If anyone auditioned these blindfold without knowing what they were listening to, there's no way anyone would guess they were listening to a sub/sat system.
 

RickyDeg

Well-known Member
If anyone auditioned these blindfold without knowing what they were listening to, there's no way anyone would guess they were listening to a sub/sat system.

:lesson: Wholeheartedly agree!
 

Member 116841

Distinguished Member
Currently listening to Royal Blood's album (rather loudly) - it's amazing how the subs only sound like subs when they need to - it's like they're....self aware! :)
 

siamsquare

Active Member
If you bought your system from LMsound, did you ask for a separate left speaker for center as they don't sell them as a unit? I have the same problem as you after measuring.
 

RickyDeg

Well-known Member
Currently listening to Royal Blood's album (rather loudly) - it's amazing how the subs only sound like subs when they need to - it's like they're....self aware! :)

Will have to look that one up!
Always interested in music and artists new to me. Thanks!
 

RickyDeg

Well-known Member
If you bought your system from LMsound, did you ask for a separate left speaker for center as they don't sell them as a unit? I have the same problem as you after measuring.

Good question! I did make my purchase via LSound and beforehand also pleaded with them to sell me a separate Q125 to use as a Center. Sadly, for whatever reason, they would not do so. I presume they purchase them from KK in stereo pairs and want to sell then as such to customers.

I was "lucky" as I had purchased two pairs of Q125 L/R; one pair to use for fronts and a second pair for surrounds. I ended up not liking that configuration however and were able to send back the dedicated Q125 Center against a pair of TriFX for proper surround duties. Alas; I kept the second pair of Q125 L/R and simply used the L for center duties. Another friend of mine who was in the same situation as me bought my leftover R speaker. So it all worked out!

I've chatted with a couple KK Quattro owners in the US and they were able to buy a separate Q125 L or R for this same purpose. It's ashamed we can't do that in Europe. The boxes the speakers come delivered in, and also the labels on the speakers themselves, clearly state they work either way as L/C/R so they were meant to be made available this way.

PS! Love your avatar! ;)
 

siamsquare

Active Member
Thanks, so no bother asking them then!
P.S.:I'm a huge Alien fan!
bLACKoNEstrikes.gif
 

RickyDeg

Well-known Member
^ Actually, I think you should ask! Maybe the situation have changed since I purchased my set? Besides; the more potential buyers who ask for this perhaps they'll re-think.

Alien rocks! :)
 

avbahn

Member
RickyDeg,

I have been wondering about subwoofer distance setting in my system. Onkyo auto setup calculates it further away then physical distance. In your setup how did you measure sub distance setting as you had to do it manually I guess? From what point of dxd did you took the measurement?
 

RickyDeg

Well-known Member
Excellent question!

I don't know of your Onkyos auto set-up calculation routine or measurements but perhaps it takes into account the slightly different circumstance that a subwoofer finds itself in. As far as I understand nearly all subwoofers introduce some additional acoustic delay compared to normal speakers, which must be compensated for – i.e. the physical distance is not the same as the acoustic distance. For all speakers except the sub distances can be done quite accurately by using a tape measure or laser distance meter.

My DXD-12012's physical distance is approx 2.8 meters from sweetspot. One of the things I found most helpful was to listen to a familiar piece of music in plain 2.1 stereo with a high crossover frequency to the subwoofer. Preferably 150Hz. Then I increased the distance to the subwoofer in the menu system. When it felt as if the bass was playing at it's strongest, and came from the middle of the soundstage rather than where the subwoofer was actually located, the setting was 'correct'. After that I set the crossover back to 80Hz. I ended up with an acoustic distance of 3.3 meters, which my Primare processor is now set to. There are many other recommended ways of doing this. I found some valuble information on dedicated forums a while back but sadly don't have the site links at hand atm but you could try Google for this. If your Onkyo uses Audyssey (newer models don't, I believe?) I think their own website have information with tips in the "ask Audyssey" section.
 
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avbahn

Member
Thanks for the tip.
Audyssey is turned off at the moment in my Onkyo 818 as it sounded better in my room that way.
Otherwise it is recommended to just leave it as found by automatic setup.
 
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siamsquare

Active Member
I see your surrounds are placed behind your seating area, shouldn't they be placed in a 90-110° angle?
 

RickyDeg

Well-known Member
^ As I believe I clearly stated in my review this was a compromise due to my room and aesthetics, nothing else.
 

Member 116841

Distinguished Member
How are you getting on after several months RD?

Although every film is a joy to watch, I have to say Guardians Of The Galaxy was sublime on the KK system :)
 
I bet people with arachnophobia and been put off buying these speakers. They looks scary.
 

RickyDeg

Well-known Member
How are you getting on after several months RD?

Although every film is a joy to watch, I have to say Guardians Of The Galaxy was sublime on the KK system :)

Hya David! :hiya:

Getting on absolutely sublime! Still cramming in more movie nights than I can remember doing before! I will agree that "Guardians Of The Galaxy" sounds pretty is stellar! Honestly though, the most fun I'm having is re-visiting my entire BD library and I still have about 100 films left to watch and listen to. It's fun hearing through the Quattro's how well (or in some cases, how bad) the soundstracks are mixed.

Still hoping to test some other brands of separates with the speaker system, but not yet sure which ones it'll be. Did you ever get a chance to hear your Quattros with the Chord multichannel amp? (the SPM 2400, if I'm not mistaken?)

BTW; this year should be an interesting one with lots of exciting summer movies! And them coming out later on Blu-ray... and of course 4K/UHD Blu-ray discs hopefully emerging at the end of this year too! I won't be one of those with the ability to upgrade my speaker system to object-based audio but I'm hoping that maybe, just maybe, 4K/UHD Blu-ray discs may still contain other forms of audio improvements that'll benefit the rest of us (if at all possible?).
 

RickyDeg

Well-known Member
I bet people with arachnophobia and been put off buying these speakers. They looks scary.

My mom almost got a heart attack when she came over to dinner recently! :laugh: She loved the sound but hated what they reminded her of... lol
 

RickyDeg

Well-known Member
YAY! :clap: Please do! What electronics will you use with em?
 

Doomlord_uk

Well-known Member
Interesting to read this review. I had a set myself - minus the sub - which I won from Lsound, before being pretty much forced to sell them :( Still missing them... I only had the original MX5000 subs though, but at least I had a pair, and the integration and SQ in the setup was pretty excellent. I fully plan to own another set...

To answer some questions:

The Q125s have a fairly insane 300W RMS power handling, and are 4-ohm nominal impedance speakers.

They are rated down to 60Hz at -3dBs if I recall correctly. As that's the frequency subs start to sound localisable you might like to experiment with crossing over the sub at 60Hz and not 80Hz?

The little rubber feet aren't entirely useless, they worked for me! :p

Lack of 12v trigger IS an issue and you're right to raise it - KK Sound should take the consumer market more seriously. The more feedback they get - directly and via forum discussion - the better the chance they'll get the hint. A 12V trigger input wouldn't hurt sound quality, it might add a bit to the BOM and base cost, but who's gonna complain? We want it - give it to us.

You can't buy a separate Q125 as a centre because - as you know, actually - they're packed and shipped as pairs. It was the same deal with LS50s... You'll need to find someone else buying a Quattro setup and split a pair with them. That said, the centre is only different because of the mount (which worked for me, I found it useful) and iirc the rear panel is rotated 90 degrees. You don't have to use the mount, either.

I'm intrigued by your positioning of the TriFXs - I went with side mounting, albeit too high up (unavoidable in my room) to get a better sense of audio panning and surround... I never liked rear-mounted speakers in a 5.1 system! Did you experiment with positioning? I am pretty sure they're meant to be wall mounted, hence the lack of stands.

Speaking of stands, what do you think of the Q125 stands? I thought they were expensive at £600/pair but at least they match, visually... How heavy are they, really? And how stable?

Any temptation to add more subs? :p

Lastly, I know you have small hands!



Very jealous actually, I miss having any kind of audio system right now, and the Quattro package in particular!
 

RickyDeg

Well-known Member
Interesting to read this review. I had a set myself - minus the sub - which I won from Lsound, before being pretty much forced to sell them :( Still missing them... I only had the original MX5000 subs though, but at least I had a pair, and the integration and SQ in the setup was pretty excellent. I fully plan to own another set...

You lucky AND unlucky then! Too bad you don't have em anymore! And with two of those sub's I imagine low-frequency pressure in your room was substantial? I've yet to experience the DXD-12012 as a duo, let alone as a full quattro set. In my small listeningroom, which is basically the livingroom open to the dining/kitchen area, I could/would simply not house that amount of subwoofers. With a dedicated room perhaps things would be different.

To answer some questions:

The Q125s have a fairly insane 300W RMS power handling, and are 4-ohm nominal impedance speakers.

They are rated down to 60Hz at -3dBs if I recall correctly. As that's the frequency subs start to sound localisable you might like to experiment with crossing over the sub at 60Hz and not 80Hz?

The little rubber feet aren't entirely useless, they worked for me! :p

They sure do love power! I used a very powerful NuForce MCH-300SEC7 multichannel amp before switching to my current Primare A30.7, spewing out some 335W into 4 Ohm which the Q125's happily gobbled up. The Primare isn't nearly as powerful and I clearly notice the difference. Even though I sometimes miss the raw power of the NuForce the Primare sounds more 'musical' and 'fluid' to my ears. That extra 'bite' and 'attack' delivered by the NuForce did bring better presence and heft to movie-watching though.

Haven't experimented with crossovers other than 80Hz, but will do.

The little rubber feet I mentioned were directed towards the dedicated floor stands. Those made the speaker very difficult to adjust while positioning. Soundcare Superspikes were superior in that regard. No biggie, just a minor detail.

Lack of 12v trigger IS an issue and you're right to raise it - KK Sound should take the consumer market more seriously. The more feedback they get - directly and via forum discussion - the better the chance they'll get the hint. A 12V trigger input wouldn't hurt sound quality, it might add a bit to the BOM and base cost, but who's gonna complain? We want it - give it to us.

Agreed!

You can't buy a separate Q125 as a centre because - as you know, actually - they're packed and shipped as pairs. It was the same deal with LS50s... You'll need to find someone else buying a Quattro setup and split a pair with them. That said, the centre is only different because of the mount (which worked for me, I found it useful) and iirc the rear panel is rotated 90 degrees. You don't have to use the mount, either.

Actually you can, if you live in the US! I've chatted with a couple of owners over there who purchased them individually because they, like me, didn't like the dedicated Center arrangement. The issue here in Europe, as it were, exists because LSound purchase them in pairs from KK and strictly sell them as pairs. My friend who had the same concern as me almost held off buying his Quattro set due to this, but as things worked out I could sell my "left-over" Q125 to him. Problem solved.

I'm intrigued by your positioning of the TriFXs - I went with side mounting, albeit too high up (unavoidable in my room) to get a better sense of audio panning and surround... I never liked rear-mounted speakers in a 5.1 system! Did you experiment with positioning? I am pretty sure they're meant to be wall mounted, hence the lack of stands.

As I explained in the review (but wasn't shown in the photos) there is no sidewall to the left of the livingroom, as it's an open-type architecture apartment. My dining/kitchen area is right next to it. Wall mounting was therefore impossible, and experimentation limited. The backwall can't house speakers due to windows and curtains. The 3rd-party floor stands the TriFX are placed on were the highest ones I could find that also looked the part (same brand as the A/V cabinet, so they match aesthetically). Yes, the TriFX are meant to be wallmounted, on each side of the listening position. But as I have found they are more versatile than I first believed them to be.

Speaking of stands, what do you think of the Q125 stands? I thought they were expensive at £600/pair but at least they match, visually... How heavy are they, really? And how stable?

They're brilliant! Heavier than my king-size bed! Stable isn't even the foreword. And you bolt the speakers to the stands so they aint going nowhere. I do agree though; they were expensive but my pair was B-stock so I got them at half price. Mint condition.

Any temptation to add more subs? :p

See above! lol

Lastly, I know you have small hands!

Say what? I believe my hands to be fully porportinate to the rest of me! lol

Very jealous actually, I miss having any kind of audio system right now, and the Quattro package in particular!

I feel your pain! How do you even make it through your day? lol

Cheers for the comments!
 

Doomlord_uk

Well-known Member
For anyone who's curious, the free 'kidgloves' that come with the speakers are tiny. I didn't even bother trying to put them on... I do have big hands - fully proportionate, I'm ashamed to say :D - but still thought they were a bit of a needless extra. Tbh, Lsound should ask for them to be left out, and just offer one proper pair for a full order - I got three boxes and three pairs...

Thanks for the comments, Ricky. Glad you like the stands, it sounds like a positive endorsement, enough for me to consider getting a (B-stock!!) pair in the future...

As for my MX5000s... I only once really pushed them hard, when playing the subway train crash scene in Skyfall, and I cracked long before the subs would have done. I had two because I just got lucky and got to buy them as a pair... One is enough, but I do like pairing subs just for stereo listening and aesthetic symmetry. And... awesome bass powah!!! Really, how many excuses do you need for multiple subs? :D :D :D
 

siamsquare

Active Member
Too bad the old stands are out-of-stock! The new ones will be in matt black like the new Q125!
 

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