kef T101 as surrounds or other options?

whitehart

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Hi I have Kef Reference front speakers and looking to improve my back stages, i currently have bipole eltax HT 2 as surrounds pointing to me on the sofa - as there is a wall either side, I also want to get some rear atmos speakers (Q50a) and put them in place of the bipoles and then put 2 of thse T101's on the back wall (sofa is against wall)

would the ts101's be good enough for this 5.1.4 (i want to put them flush to wall?

thanks
 
Bit confused as to what you want them for. Do you want them as surrounds, ie, 5.1.4 or rear surrounds, ie, 7.1.4?
 
Yes, I'm confused too, so I've joined the club! A drawing and/or photos would work wonders if that's possible?
 
Can I ask what you feel you are missing from the rear of your system (dynamics, clarity, bass, etc...). There could be another way of addressing you room woes without changing anything

As for Atmos! because this is more of a focused sound stage, you might find the rears you are using today may not be the best option as you could find that they dilute and interfere due to the way they work. So you could maybe look at replacing the rears in order to bring Atmos (at a future date) to the forefront whilst addressing what's happening at the rear of the room using a pair of traditional stand-mounts to try and bring the dynamics alive to bring a more balanced line of audio with what's happening at the front end

Out of interest, what size of room do you have and where is the main listening position as this is also important in letting everyone know what might work best in the room. If you have a diagram or photo, this will really help everyone. If you have AVR which you are using, this will also help to make sure no-one under or over spec's the speaker types
 
here is what i have appolgies for the rough drawing i have a 5.1.2 system that i want to upgrade to a 5.1.4 ironically i buy a lot of kit from avonline!

i want to replace the eltax HT-2's as i feel they dont match R series KEF (R82 should read R8a) atmos speakers on drawing

now i figure get rid of the bipoles and put 2 kef Q50a in place to get the 4 atmos speakers and get forward facing speakers to the back wall as surrounds maybe t101's but anything that could match up the R series. I'm thinking this is prob the best solution, just not sure which speakers for surrounds yet.
also forget to include centre speaker under the TV (sorry really tired lol)

as you can see the livingroom isnt ideal and i have the sub next to the sofa as no where else it could go. I have a yamaha rx-a6a so it should have plenty of juice for the channels


setup.jpeg
 
I'm still not entirely clear on what you're proposing. But a few points based on what you've said:

If you're going from x.x.2 (with two front Atmos) to x.x.4. The two additional Atmos speakers, whether they are up-firing position or on the wall need to be assigned as either "surround" or "surround back" and need to be positioned on-top (for up-firers) or above on the wall whichever they are, i.e. the height channel for either surrounds or surround backs.

You cannot have surround backs without surrounds. It is generally advised with a sofa against wall to position surrounds roughly where you already have. And surround backs, in general, don't work because you are so close to them. Some people do it. There are some, for example who have speakers on the floor behind the sofa firing up!

The T-series speakers do not "match the R-series". I get what you're saying, they should better tonally match than what you have as they have a Uni-Q driver.

General advice would say to stick to 5.x.4 and if you want to go with KEF, then stick T101 or T301 at MLP ear level on the walls to the side of the sofa (like where your surrounds are now). And put the "surround heights" on the wall at the top above the T-series.

I'd be concerned that the sofa seating would be so close to those heights that they may not be directing sound adequately. But @John24ssj could help with comments on that, here's what his speakers look like around his sofa and he's very happy with it:

1640245360024.png
 
I'm still not entirely clear on what you're proposing. But a few points based on what you've said:

If you're going from x.x.2 (with two front Atmos) to x.x.4. The two additional Atmos speakers, whether they are up-firing position or on the wall need to be assigned as either "surround" or "surround back" and need to be positioned on-top (for up-firers) or above on the wall whichever they are, i.e. the height channel for either surrounds or surround backs.

You cannot have surround backs without surrounds. It is generally advised with a sofa against wall to position surrounds roughly where you already have. And surround backs, in general, don't work because you are so close to them. Some people do it. There are some, for example who have speakers on the floor behind the sofa firing up!

The T-series speakers do not "match the R-series". I get what you're saying, they should better tonally match than what you have as they have a Uni-Q driver.

General advice would say to stick to 5.x.4 and if you want to go with KEF, then stick T101 or T301 at MLP ear level on the walls to the side of the sofa (like where your surrounds are now). And put the "surround heights" on the wall at the top above the T-series.

I'd be concerned that the sofa seating would be so close to those heights that they may not be directing sound adequately. But @John24ssj could help with comments on that, here's what his speakers look like around his sofa and he's very happy with it:

View attachment 1623859
Thanks for this im basically wanting to go from a 5.1.2 to a 5.1.4 and questioning the postioning of where my speakers are currently and where they need to be to get a 5.1.4

i hadn't considered having the surrounds lower at ear level and the Q50's down firing above them like in the photo, I was too focused on putting the surrounds on the back wall as there is more space there, but i do think yes they need to be configured the same as that photo - which leads me to what speaker would be best suited for this? the surround speaker would need to be fairly smallish and be able to be mounted angled
 
If you take us a picture of the sofa with it's surrounding area (like the above) then people will have plenty of ideas :)

Before you do that, (1) you haven't bought any of these speakers yet then? (2) you don't want to use the Eltax and/or are happy to spend money to upgrade or would rather reduce costs?
 
If you take us a picture of the sofa with it's surrounding area (like the above) then people will have plenty of ideas :)

Before you do that, (1) you haven't bought any of these speakers yet then? (2) you don't want to use the Eltax and/or are happy to spend money to upgrade or would rather reduce costs?
I have the Eltax speakers already i have had them for 10 years +, I want to retire them ;) im currently at work but no i havent bought the q50a's yet which i will be getting in the new year - its just deciding on the surrounds and the positioning of them
 
I have some photo's, my other half is working from home - you can see how limited the livingroom is, i asked her to take photos around both the current surrounds. i dont have an awful lot of space
 

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Well, I'll probably be struck off the forum for not following all of the true guidelines, but (if it was me) I'd just leave those Eltax there and use them as surround heights. You could swap them with something posher that angles downwards but as the whole setup is making compromises (like everyone else using their lounge!) worth trying those first IMO.

Then, unless you can make room for floorstanders of stand mounts, leaves two options for surrounds:

1. As above, wall mount speakers, either below where those surround heights are or back in the corners but angled towards MLP (that's how my surround are, and it gives a slight bit of "rearness" to them, and follow guidelines better).

2. Place a speaker of a reasonable height (to get its tweeter close or at MLP height) on top of that table one side and the sub the other.

Remember that the room is the biggest influence on the sound. You have to make big compromises in your room, like I do (and many others), such as where your front-left speaker is. My theory is don't overspend to the room - if you're with me. Your LCR (three most important) and sub are all really high quality.

There will be other people reply with very different opinions 🤣
 
So those rear speakers are far to high to give a proper experience in the room. If they were just above ear level with around one foot elevation, then you would hear far more of what they can deliver.

As for trying to create a two levels of sound like you have with Atmos, those speakers really need to be moved down. As I mentioned before, as they are not focused speakers due to their nature of spreading the sound out in the room, you will upset the balance (but if you find you enjoy it, its ok to ignore this principle as its your own ears and no one else)

The room on another hand is certainly a little more difficult to work with especially across the rear of the room. So, yes the T101 or even T301 speakers will work on the side walls (be aware the they need to use the frequencies of the woofer in order to make the best sounds and if the woofer will not hit those level, you will hear the sub/sat void).

For me, I feel the T301 would work better and thankfully the speakers will have a similar signature do to the way Kef produce their speakers, and should better than what you are experiencing today as you are able to position these correctly in the room (which should be at ear level on the side walls). This should enable you to mount the Q50a's higher up the wall. Now this isn't the best position, but I feel if you want to run down the .4 Atmos route, you really haven't got much of a choice at the rear of the room. As for the front Atmos speakers, you can place then on the front wall high up for a better distribution of audio to the rear of the room

In truth, you should be able to create a dynamic sound stage which delivers a believable focused atmos solution even though you are still having to make a compromise with some of the speaker placements.

I feel the worst speaker in the setup will be the rear left atmos which is closest to the settee and you may find that this one is the hardest to setup and may need manual tweaking within the AVR to fully appreciate it (hopefully not though)
 
Oh, once you made a plan for speakers, good idea to nicely ask @Mr Wolf if he can run his "amplfier power calculator" on them. I believe your KEF Reference to be quite power hungry, so I wouldn't assume that the A6A can fully cope. Obviously depends a lot on your typical listening levels (his calculator takes that into account). But if you do this before you buy the extra speakers, it could affect which speakers you choose sensitivity wise.
 
I feel the worst speaker in the setup will be the rear left atmos which is closest to the settee and you may find that this one is the hardest to setup and may need manual tweaking within the AVR to fully appreciate it (hopefully not though)

Yes agree! The OP needs to make sure he's chosen his favourite sofa seat wisely!
 
Yes agree! The OP needs to make sure he's chosen his favourite sofa seat wisely!
Most definitely, but choosing the seat furthest away will upset the front arrangement creating its own problems as the front of the room isn't ideal either, but as you've mentioned, almost everyone who has a system in a living room has to make compromises and if you're happy with them, that's all that matters ;)
 
its a horrible room to work with in truth - i will definatley get the Q50's higher up than where the eltax bipole speakers are, and i think most likely get a set of T301 or T101 below it unless you guys know of a speaker that would better suit? i'd have to have the T301 or 101 flat to that wall though. i did think about maybe a Dali fazon mikro as well as surrounds
 
I think as you are running with Kef all round the T301 will be a better option than using others brands of speakers and they are better than the T101 as they just deliver a more convincing sound signature (especially if you are using Kef R500's at the front end (noticed you'd got those penned in on your room layout)) :smashin:

Also don't get to upset by the room as I've seen a worse and with your room, at least it isn't a no go for a 5.1.4 setup. some rooms just will not work, so at least you are going to be able to experience what Atmos has to offer (all be it with a bit of planning)
 
Most definitely, but choosing the seat furthest away will upset the front arrangement creating its own problems as the front of the room isn't ideal either, but as you've mentioned, almost everyone who has a system in a living room has to make compromises and if you're happy with them, that's all that matters ;)

And I was (probably appeared as rude) making that point.

Room is primary. There's no point in putting a ÂŁ30 grand AV setup in a room where you can't put speakers in the right place, objects are placed haphazardly and MLP is not ideal. I get the OP isn't spending that money but I was trying to politely suggest that even ÂŁ350 is probably OTT for some rear heights in a room with that many compromises. Only to be nice and try saving money.

Potentially, for tonality as well, wall mount T301 at MLP height for surrounds, then mount at a rough 45 degree angle T101s as rear heights above them at the edge where wall meets ceiling (bit harder to mount but may achieve better angle for MLP than the Q50s would too).

And, yes, good point earlier by the way. The front Atmos is more important than the rear, so if you can get those wall mounted and not upfiring.
 
I think as you are running with Kef all round the T301 will be a better option than using others brands of speakers and they are better than the T101 as they just deliver a more convincing sound signature (especially if you are using Kef R500's at the front end (noticed you'd got those penned in on your room layout)) :smashin:

Also don't get to upset by the room as I've seen a worse and with your room, at least it isn't a no go for a 5.1.4 setup. some rooms just will not work, so at least you are going to be able to experience what Atmos has to offer (all be it with a bit of planning)
Brilliant thanks - i think i will go for kef all around get some 301's and have q50a's as high as i can - i'll be doing this in the new year.
 
And I was (probably appeared as rude) making that point.

Room is primary. There's no point in putting a ÂŁ30 grand AV setup in a room where you can't put speakers in the right place, objects are placed haphazardly and MLP is not ideal. I get the OP isn't spending that money but I was trying to politely suggest that even ÂŁ350 is probably OTT for some rear heights in a room with that many compromises. Only to be nice and try saving money.

Potentially, for tonality as well, wall mount T301 at MLP height for surrounds, then mount at a rough 45 degree angle T101s as rear heights above them at the edge where wall meets ceiling (bit harder to mount but may achieve better angle for MLP than the Q50s would too).

And, yes, good point earlier by the way. The front Atmos is more important than the rear, so if you can get those wall mounted and not upfiring.

the front heights unfortunetly i cant mount on the wall due to a cabinet that is in way halfway up the wall - saying that the upfiring from the R8a's sounds pretty good so im not too worried about that - i like your idea for the T101's but im convinced a q50a high enough should be okay
 
the front heights unfortunetly i cant mount on the wall due to a cabinet that is in way halfway up the wall - saying that the upfiring from the R8a's sounds pretty good so im not too worried about that - i like your idea for the T101's but im convinced a q50a high enough should be okay
As a rule there seems to be a rule of acceptance for Atmos speaker placement. In-ceiling is by far the best with Atmos speakers like the Kef Q50a's being mounted high up on the walls being the second option. The area where most people seems to complain about to quality of Atmos is when they are using them as upward firing solutions and thus it becomes less of an impact do to the different makeup and distances the sound reflections this solution creates. So I would really say, try and find a way of working round this as it will either make or break your Atmos experience and to me, you are already making a lot of compromises, you really don't want to make anymore as it will be full on at the rear of the room and very weak if you choose use the Q50a as upward firing Atmos speakers
 
Strongly agree there with @ShanePJ my choice would be to stick with x.x.2 rather than have x.x.4 with up-firing fronts and surround heights.

If you do go with that route though, would be interested to hear your feedback. Well, interested hearing you're feedback afterwards whichever way you go!

i like your idea for the T101's but im convinced a q50a high enough should be okay

You could actually mount the T101s on the ceiling itself pointing downwards like ceiling speakers (above where the surrounds are). White ones if you wanted.

Quite a few members have used T101s or T301s as ceiling speakers since they sit so flush to the surface.
 

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