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Kef Reference 200c Vs Kef Q95C problem

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by kingcobbler, Apr 15, 2005.

  1. kingcobbler

    kingcobbler
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    I bought a second hand Ref 200c to upgrade from my Q95C to hopefully complete my home cinema.

    But since having it I have never been happy and the Q95C sounds much better. The 200C sounds very lacking in all departments when directly compared with the Q95C. It sounds rather muffled and echoey (if thats a word !!).

    Does this sound like a problem anyone has heard before, maybe damaged in transit (no visable signs, looks perfect).

    Very frustrated at the moment and feel like I have wasted a lot of money as I have gone back to the Q95C. So far on this forum everyone has given this "Reference" centre speaker glowing reports and I was hoping it would send my home cinema into a true high end sound.
     
  2. Steve N

    Steve N
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    I was recently using the Q95c with my set up.
    I thought it was pretty good. Like you I read the praise for the 100c and the 200c.
    I couldn't find a 200c so bought a 100c thinking it probably wouldn't be much better than my Q95c but had the bug so got it anyway. In the meantime Kef put two 200's on ebay so I bought one of those as well.
    Let me say straight off that I am a bit cynical about rave reviews some products get. People say something is twice as good and you sit there trying to convince yourself you can hear a difference.
    However, I noticed a significant difference (improvement) with my 100 against my 95 and again a further improvement when I tried the 200.
    This is not one of those "opinions differ" situations. Your 200 should indisputably and noticibly be an improvement on your 95.
    I sat there like a kid in a sweetshop playing my favourite scenes from movies.

    I wonder if you have been sold a faulty speaker (someone tried to sell me a duff one on this forum a few months back). I can not think of another reason why you are getting the symptoms you describe. It is obviously not a wiring up problem because I presume you just disconnected your 95 and connected your 200 without messing about with the amp connections or have you tried to biwire the 200 and got the terminals the wrong way round.
     
  3. kingcobbler

    kingcobbler
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    Thanks for the info Steve. Like you I was expecting big things. The Q95C never sounded bad against the other 4 Kef reference speakers but I thought the 200C should bring the whole system alive and make the soundstage much bigger.

    I did buy it off this site. I will give the seller the benifit of the doubt and hope it was damaged in transit.

    I have been playing with the 2 speakers tonight and have tried every option with the 200C and it always sounds worse than my q95c.

    I suppose my next question is what can I do about it to get it fixed. My Kef dealer in Northampton has closed down, so should I approach Kef directly ?

    Any advice would be well received.
     
  4. Steve N

    Steve N
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    kef are very helpful and easy to find on the net, you can usually speak to a real person on the phone, if not, they do answer emails.
    Something else occured to me later yesterday, if you wired them up the same as the 95's (which cannot be biwired), do you have the bridges that cross the terminals in. These can easily be missed and could be the cause of your problem.
     
  5. Steve N

    Steve N
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    Just found Kef's phone No. it is :- 01622 672261
     
  6. kingcobbler

    kingcobbler
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    No its not that.

    I have tried it as it came with the brass jumper to my single wired cable talk 4.1. I then also tried some cable talk 4.1 mper cable I created but still no better. I think it seems to have a serious problem.

    I think I might get in touch with kef and see what thay say. It bound to cost more money !!!
     
  7. franc

    franc
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    Hi. Take the good advice and contact Kef and see what they say. In my experience, Kef Audio has an outstanding customer service department. Few manufacturers will match them for after sales/product support.
    Incidently, I also have a Kef 200 and the improvement it introduced to the soundfield was enormous. It was like i had upgraded all the speakers! A friend came round for a listen as I had been raving about it and my then, new servo 15. This same friend thought I was crazy spending £300 on a pre/owned centre speaker. So impressed was he, that he went on to purchase a Kef 200 and servo15 for himself.

    I do hope you get this sorted out.

    Regards FRANC
     
  8. Steve N

    Steve N
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    KC let us know how you get on
     
  9. kingcobbler

    kingcobbler
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    Thanks for the interest shown.

    I have taken the advise and the 200c goes off to Kef Wednesday, so hopefully some news end of week early next.

    I spoke to a chap from Kef who was extremely helpful, so far a plus for Kef on customer service.
     
  10. matblack

    matblack
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    Kef have possibly the best CS dept of any manufacturer that I have had dealings with for ANY product including cars. The guys are very knowledgeable and for small jobs won't charge for fitting new parts. On top of that they are relatively cheap for new drivers etc.

    Can't fault KEF and to top it all they are base a mile away from my front door :)

    MB
     
  11. Steve N

    Steve N
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    DITTO
     
  12. matblack

    matblack
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    Oh and if you decide you don't want the 200C anymore, give me a shout ;)

    MB
     
  13. kingcobbler

    kingcobbler
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    hopefully matblack... not a chance :)

    Seriously thought I hope Kef can perform some magic. I was tempted to just drop the speaker from a great height and use my accidental damage coverage to maybe blag a new 204c, but I'm to honest for that, plus th enew Ref centres are just a tad to tall to fit in my rack.

    It is sent tomorrow so hopefully I'll report some news later this week.
     
  14. kingcobbler

    kingcobbler
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    Speaker arrived as promised before 10:30 this morning. Big up to www.parcel2go.com .

    Got a phone call at 10am from Paul at Kef who said the tweeter wasn't tweeting properly and that an inductor ?? was cracked. He said he had already changed the tweeter and the sound was improved but would like to change the crossover but wanted my authorisation before just doing it.

    I said go ahead and then got another phone call about an hour later saying he was happy with the speaker and the job was a good'un.

    Great service and a very reasonable cost.
    £14 + vat for the tweeter
    £37 inc vat for the crossover.

    Total cost £73.50 to include parts, vat, labour and re-packaging and courier back to me next day service.

    So far, incredible service !!!!

    Wait till tomorrow for the speaker to arrive and I'll have a play. Hopefully post again tomorrow on the new sound.
     
  15. Steve N

    Steve N
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    Great stuff - Kef are head and shoulders above others for support and advice.

    We're all waiting for tomorrow now for the verdict.

    cheers - Steve
     
  16. Plump

    Plump
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    KEF reference 200c needs powerfull and stable amp if you want to squeeze the best out of it. I was fairly surprise to discover this. It is still great product indeed, after all these years.
    Feed it with bad amp and you'll be unhappy.
     
  17. kingcobbler

    kingcobbler
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    It will be running (when I get it back) off a Yamaha DSP-A2, 100W per channel. In just stereo it happily drive the big 4Ohm 104/2 to very high sound levels at seemingly no distortion. So I hope my amp is good enough for the 200c.

    But...... I guess amplification is my next upgrade path. Possibly a 2 step upgrade. Firstly use a new power amp and the Yamaha as pre/processor. I was thinking about Rotel RMB-1095 then maybe later the matching processor. I would love Parasound or Krell but i don't want my wife to take my kids away (tempting as it sounds sometimes :D )
     
  18. Helicon

    Helicon
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    In my experience, you'll need something better than the Rotel to drive the Kef Ref's properly.

    Forget the Krell, i used a Krell KSA-100 with 104.2's once and the bass wasn't too good, the amp was not controlling the speakers properly. I know about it's reputation, that's why i bought it, but failed to live up to it.
     
  19. kingcobbler

    kingcobbler
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    Thanks for the advice Helicon.

    Maybe I should stick with a single box solution and go for the Yamaha DSP-Z9 or equivalent from Denon.
     
  20. Helicon

    Helicon
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    I used to run my 200c from a DSP-Z9 without any problems :)
     
  21. Steve N

    Steve N
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    Kingcobbler - have you got the 200 back yet - if so - how is it performing now.
     
  22. danny daniell

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    KingCobbler,
    for your information,the 200 totally rocks on the end of Rotels 1098/1095 :thumbsup: How do i know?....it`s my dads system! Mind you,he has it flanked by a brace of Model 4`s & a Velo sub :devil: If you live anywhere near Kings Lynn & want to come & have a listen,i am sure he wouldnt mind.

    Regards,Dan :)
     
  23. kingcobbler

    kingcobbler
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    Finally, the return of the 200c.

    After a minor admin glitch at Kef. It was delivered back to my place of work yesterday.

    Before I comment about the new sound I would just like to say a massive thanks to Kef. There customer service has been of the highest order and a personal thanks to Paul Drake who did the work.

    Plugged it back in after the kids went to bed and did not the the most scientific test. Load a decent music cd, turn off the front speakers and play in pro logic mode so all the must comes through the centre. I did this firstly with the Q95C and then the 200c.

    Wow comes to mind great clear precise sound from this rather duff test, but it did what I wanted which was to prove the fix had worked and the speaker was operating correctly.

    Once the wife went to bed I finaly gor round to watching the film "Saw". Oh my god am I a baby is is that film god damn scary !!!

    Again wonderful clear speach, even though the volume was still quite low. I need to tweak the db up a tad as the 104/2's are a little more sensitive and the centre needs upping a little.

    Now a very happy 200c owner and will perform some more test at a more reference level later this week.

    So that is that sort......next upgrade......new amp ???? any ideas ??? I will only only ever buy ex-display, demo or 2nd hand, new just seems such a waste. even after paying for the 200c to be fixed it is less than half the cost new. Maybe Denon AV1SR(A) ??
     
  24. kingcobbler

    kingcobbler
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    or Rotel pre/power..... I guess about £1k to spend in a few months. Would I get a significant increase in quality ???
     
  25. Pambs

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    i was doing a search on kef and found this post.

    i have recently bought a pair of reference model 2/2 and the 200c centre

    I didnt even heared them but so many reviews and stories that when a a found them i bought them right away, after all for the money u get them now it's a real bargain and u cant get nothing new with that sort of money that can perform even close

    the model 2/2 are connected to 2 denon monoblocks poa-6600
    the 200c still lays in the room as i need some help on the amplifier and the rear speakers

    What i was thinking is to get a rotel 1095 and built a 7.1 setup.

    What do you think about the rotel and what about rear and side speakers with the kef thx 34ds being my 1st choise so everything will match together

    the system will be controlled by a lexicon mc8 i own and the source will be a techinics A10 which i think i'll change since it gave me a lot of trouble

    any feedback apreciated

    ps. Sorry for my english but i'm Greek
     
  26. Steve N

    Steve N
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    Hi Pambs,
    Congratulations on your first post.
    To get some useful answers to your questions I would suggest you start a new thread.
    I have the 200c and the 2.2s. You are right that the ideal match for these as rears would be the 34ds'. I am currently using Q2DS' but am looking for 34ds' myself.
    I am not that knowledgeable on amps/processors etc. I use a Denon A1SE which gives pretty good results.
    I know the Lexicon mc8 and the Rotel 1095 are both highly rated, but I think if you start a new thread with a title something like :- Kef Refs Amp Question, you should attract responses from members more knowledgeable/experienced than me.

    Nothing wrong with your english by the way. Good luck.
     
  27. Pambs

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    cheers mate i'll do that
     
  28. Steve.EX

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    Do you not like the 6600's? They have something of a cult status.
     
  29. Legzr1

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    I too found this thread while doing a Kef search (i'm looking for a 100C or,if cheap enough a 200C :) ).
    Looks like a :smashin: for Kef.

    What has tempted me to post a reply is the 'Krell can't control bass' comment !!
    I currently own a pair of Kef ref 3.2's.
    I demoed these alongside 4.2's,B+W cdm9 and 803N's.
    There were a number of amps used but,without doubt the Krell's used were the best at tight,controlled bass !
    The amps were a KSA200,600C (wish I had the money !!) and a well used 300i.
    As ever,try before you buy.
     

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