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Kef Q75's to Kef Ref. 1.2/2.2's- worth it?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by nathan_silly, May 20, 2003.

  1. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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    Noticed a couple of places are offering Kef Reference Model 1.1 & 2.2's for a good price.

    My current left/right speakers are Kef Q75's, powered by one Audiolab 8000PX (100W x 2)

    Only used for AV- DVD films etc. Would it be worthwhile changing?

    Crossover I guess will be 80hz (room is a bit small, Q75's set to large sound boomy- not the Q75 fault, as they sound fab in a larger room)

    Centre is the Kef Model 200 centre.

    So two questions...

    1) Will the PX drive them?
    2) The Kef 200 was the biggest upgrade by far- is it for the same for left/rights? - my previous centre was a B&W CC6 which is pants compared to the Kef. :laugh:

    Cheers
     
  2. daninthemix

    daninthemix
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    Nathan - the Reference models are far superior to the Model 200C, whose drivers are the same as the lesser monitor series. So if you were truly blown away by the Model 200C then you'll achieve the same effect (at least) by going to the 1s/2s...

    As to whether your specific amp can drive them I cannot comment. However, they are slightly notorious for being very current hungry (much more so than the latest reference range), with violent phase swings for the amp to deal with, a nominal impedance of 4ohm, but dropping as low as 2.8ohm @ 100Hz :eek:
     
  3. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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    Any more comments?

    If I set the crossover on my MC-1 to 80hz, this will help to reduce the strain on the PX?

    Still tempted with Kef 2.2's.

    Also problem of what to do with the Q75's...
     
  4. daninthemix

    daninthemix
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    The impedance is lowest @ around 100Hz on these (2.8 ohm). I'd imagine you'll be okay though...on the one hand I question spending money on big floorstanders when you plan to redirect the bass anyway...but on the other hand it's exactly what you've got now with your Q75s...so do it for the improved mid-treble!
     
  5. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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    I was thinking.. if I replace the Q driver in the Q75's with the same Q driver as the Reference line will it help match the front three?
     
  6. daninthemix

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    That's out of my league...you wanna speak to Beekeeper as I believe he performed a similar mod to some Q or monitor series speakers.
     
  7. Steve Bate

    Steve Bate
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    Nathan,

    I upgraded from Q55 to Ref 2.2's and the difference was huge, where and how much have you seen them for? How do you fancy diching the 200C and going halves with me on a pair of 2.2's then you can buy a matched pair for L&R and a 2.2 for the centre, matched speakers across the front :rotfl:

    Steve

    PS They also integrate perfectly with my PCi 25-31
     
  8. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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    Steve, when you've upgraded I take it this was stereo as well? But I will only use the Kef Reference Model 2.2's for AV use ONLY, as my Ruarks are my Hi-Fi speakers.

    So just for AV use, is it worth it?

    No won't sell the Kef 200, and I don't have the room for a floorstanding centre speaker. :)

    What amp do you use for the Kef References steve?
     
  9. wookie

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    The Model 200, 100, RDM 1,2,3 all use the same Tweeter and mids as the reference series 1~2, 2~2, 3~2, 4~2.

    :lesson:
     
  10. Steve Bate

    Steve Bate
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    I noticed a big difference for AV as well as Stereo, they're better matched to my centre than the Q55's were (Ref 100C, to be replaced when I can find a single Ref 2.2!) far more clarity.

    I use a Rotel 985Mk2 at the moment but I want to either add to it or change it either to bi-amp the 2.2's or give them a better single amp, something like a Bryston 4B. I toyed with the idea of buying a couple of TAG 125M monoblocks for them and using a TAG 100P I've got to bi-amp the centre, too many choices.

    To be honest tho' I'd question going floorstand if you're going to add a SVS CS if this is only for AV use, wouldn't you be better off going for a very good standmount?

    Steve
     
  11. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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    Sounds like your Rotel is good enough, so my Audiolab 8000PX should be fine as well.

    I could get the RDM two's, but I think the Kef 200 would outclass them.

    And I can get the the Kef Model 2.2's at a price just above the RDM 2.2's. So it's a no-brainer.
     
  12. Steve Bate

    Steve Bate
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    Where? I'm serious about getting a 2.2 for a centre, if they're that cheap then it almost becomes viable to buy a pair.

    I've only found one place and they've only got one pair left in cherry. I want black.

    Steve
     
  13. nathan_silly

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    Sounds like the same company- they have the Cherry in stock (I prefer darker woods)

    Creative Audio.
     
  14. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    NS

    Sorry I missed this. I might be able to help a little here.

    The drivers in the 200, 100, Ref and RDM ranges are not all the same. The Q range differs as well. The differences from memory are 19mm and 25mm poles and these can often be spotted by the colour ring. The Ref one have a gold ring from memory and the 200c has a silver (?). There should be a straight swap but KEF will tell you that it can’t be done! The 25mm gold one is the one to aim for (upgrade your 200?).

    I have Q15s with Ref 4 drivers which work very well, they are just that little more polished and smoother than the ‘ordinary’ Q15 which I also have. I did not do the mod however but Gary G in Telford is your man here. Basically all my direct radiating KEF have Ref 4.2 tweeters, just thinking about the dipoles at the moment but already have too much else one.

    The 200c is still a great speaker, despite the fact I first heard the Ref KEF centres over 10 years ago they take much beating IMHO. They are really made for the Ref speakers so I think you will see a very substantial jump in quality (and integration) with your 200c. The 200c will work well all the range where as the 100 is best for the 1.2 and 2.2. I would look at the 2.2 as a good bang for the buck speaker but a 1.2 with sub might be a great mix. They really differ in the bass capabilities, none of which are particular deep despite what the size might indicate. KEF actually roll off the bass with a C but this gives VERY high quality at what it attempts. The sub can do the rest.

    All these KEFs do take serious driving however. Everyone looks at the sensitivity of 91+dB and things they are easy to drive. They are NOT. They are actually quite a tough load on many amps though the Tags should be okay. In fact the Q15 was an interesting speaker. It got rave reviews when it came out when people put it on the end of Top Flight ref stuff, however when driven by the ordinary receiver, they left much to be desired. Some of the low impedences are a bit cruel for a budget speaker. It is not how I would design a budget speaker but it does mean the speaker is ‘capable’ of so much more than other budget models, whether that potential is realised or not is down to the amplifier. A friend here is just about to add 200w of serious quality Rotel amps to his Ref speakers, he is going to be in for a treat :)

    But the Ref are a serious jump in quality, very even handed speakers that has many attributes, not attained elsewhere (uniQ). A well balanced range.
     
  15. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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    Thanks for the comments Bk.

    Btw, the colour of my Kef 200 centre ring (around the tweeter) is gold, so I guess it's the newer, better quality one.

    Do you think the PX's are good enough? I guess changing from small 40hz and small 80hz will lighten the load on the amp (wheras to large -down to 20hz) could be a bit tricky.
     
  16. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I will double check my 200 tonight and also the impedence freq for you. PX are good enough but better amps will deliver more for you but more money :)
     
  17. nathan_silly

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    I have no problems with one PX biamping the Kef 200 to loud levels, sounds very clean.

    I'm just wondering if they're good enough for the Model 2.2's. I think so, but would like to hear of anyone using Tag 100P or PX's with the Kef Ref floorstanders.

    As soon as Creative Audio get dark wood finish I'm ordering them. I'll be selling off the Q75's.
     
  18. Jase

    Jase
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    Just to let you know. The drivers in the RDM1's that we have are the ones with the gold rings.:) Excellent speakers as well.
     
  19. Steve Bate

    Steve Bate
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    I was under the impression that Creative Audio only had 1 pair coming in and then that's the lot and they were Cherry.

    Let me know if you find an alternative source!!

    Steve
     
  20. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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  21. Steve Bate

    Steve Bate
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    Yep, that'll be the Cherry.

    I've just spoken to KEF and there are none left in the UK :(

    Out with the yellow pages then!

    Steve
     

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