Kef LS50's still relevant?

celtic13

Well-known Member
I am in the process of contemplating a major upgrade to the old home cinema, new projector, screen and speakers - I might change the amp at a push, depending on funds. Presently I run kef in-ceiling's and Kef R100's all round with a Paradigm sub in a 5.1.2 atmos set-up with Marantz sr 6010, which I like a lot.

I have a stereo pair of LS50's in another room for music and I love them to bits. My question is, would 5 x LS50's and the Paradigm do the job for music and movies? Or should I consider Arendal or XTZ?

It's really difficult to audition here in sunny Belfast.

Ta

P
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
I am in the process of contemplating a major upgrade to the old home cinema, new projector, screen and speakers - I might change the amp at a push, depending on funds. Presently I run kef in-ceiling's and Kef R100's all round with a Paradigm sub in a 5.1.2 atmos set-up with Marantz sr 6010, which I like a lot.

I have a stereo pair of LS50's in another room for music and I love them to bits. My question is, would 5 x LS50's and the Paradigm do the job for music and movies? Or should I consider Arendal or XTZ?

It's really difficult to audition here in sunny Belfast.

Ta

P
I wouldn't go Arendals unless you plan to upgrade the Marantz. The LS50s are absolutely fine and would compliment your system proportionally and you know how they sound.

I feel your Belfast pain.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The LS50s are a very speaker as you know and are popular for 5.1. They are though quite tough to drive. The Marantz may just struggle with a fairly full speaker connection for 5.1.2. It again is a good receiver and has the benefit of a full set of pre-outs which means you could add a power amp for the front three which would be a cheaper option than going down a new receiver route.

Saying that you are use to the R100s which are just 86dB of sensitivity and are quite hard to the receiver. I wonder whether, in a 5.1.2, you would notice a significant upgrade from the R100s to the LS50s, as the R100s are a class act in themselves. I run R300s as front and R100s as surrounds and auditioning LS50s against the R300s I preferred the 300s. I think the R Series make for a better cinema system than the LS50s. It's certainly worth you trying if you can get the other three. Perhaps you could borrow a single and try the LS50s as the fronts with the R100s as surrounds.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
That's a very fine idea, I'm sure the dealer could let me have one for the weekend.

Many thanks.
Although it would be great to have LS50s all round they would be a bit of waste on surround duties especially as you already have the R100s.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I wouldn't go Arendals unless you plan to upgrade the Marantz. The LS50s are absolutely fine and would compliment your system proportionally and you know how they sound.

I feel your Belfast pain.
Upgrade because of Audussey? :) 6000 serie Marantz is comfortable with 4ohm loads and poweramp can be always added as mentioned.



I am in the process of contemplating a major upgrade to the old home cinema, new projector, screen and speakers - I might change the amp at a push, depending on funds. Presently I run kef in-ceiling's and Kef R100's all round with a Paradigm sub in a 5.1.2 atmos set-up with Marantz sr 6010, which I like a lot.

I have a stereo pair of LS50's in another room for music and I love them to bits. My question is, would 5 x LS50's and the Paradigm do the job for music and movies? Or should I consider Arendal or XTZ?

It's really difficult to audition here in sunny Belfast.

Ta

P
How large room you have and listening distance? Is this dedicated cinema room or lounge with neighbours to worry about aswell?

If sticking with KEF why not R3 and R2c for the LCR while keeping R100 surrounds as Gibbsy mentioned? There is high chances that you would prefer the larger 3-way R3s over LS50 for music listening aswell and you want good center channel that carries big portion of movie soundtrack so the R2c would again make sense here. @dollag upgraded from LS50 center to R2c and i think from LS50 mains to R300 earlier?

For movie use we have already seen that lot of members prefer XTZ Cinema, MK 950/150, Arendal 1723 over the traditional hifi speakers from big companies, but it`s always risky to buy blind. You do have 30-60day buy&try period for home listening though. Return costs will apply.

@Steve Stifler did you have LS50 lcr and compared it to MK 950?
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Upgrade because of Audussey? :) 6000 serie Marantz is comfortable with 4ohm loads and poweramp can be always added as mentioned.
I just thought the Kef's were a better balance given the price of the AVR and it's room correction technology. If I was going for better speakers I'd want a better AVR - Anthem for example.
 

Steve Stifler

Well-known Member
Upgrade because of Audussey? :) 6000 serie Marantz is comfortable with 4ohm loads and poweramp can be always added as mentioned.





How large room you have and listening distance? Is this dedicated cinema room or lounge with neighbours to worry about aswell?

If sticking with KEF why not R3 and R2c for the LCR while keeping R100 surrounds as Gibbsy mentioned? There is high chances that you would prefer the larger 3-way R3s over LS50 for music listening aswell and you want good center channel that carries big portion of movie soundtrack so the R2c would again make sense here. @dollag upgraded from LS50 center to R2c and i think from LS50 mains to R300 earlier?

For movie use we have already seen that lot of members prefer XTZ Cinema, MK 950/150, Arendal 1723 over the traditional hifi speakers from big companies, but it`s always risky to buy blind. You do have 30-60day buy&try period

@Steve Stifler did you have LS50 lcr and compared it to MK 950?
Sorry not had those Kefs or 950s. Mine are S150s. I heard a pair of IW950s standing on a desk for computer audio and they had a very clear sound playing music, to my ears.
 

dollag

Well-known Member
whilst i really like the ls50 as a centre, i much prefer the dynamics of the r2c. after making the switch, i couldnt recommend the ls50.

the ls50's do need a lot of power and whilst the marantz is a decent avr, i found they had a lot more to offer once i added some external amplification to my sr7010.

having had pretty much all of kefs range, i'd recommend the r3 and r2c combo as @Gasp3621 mentioned. my only concern is that whilst it's an upgrade, your sound sig will not change if at all and if your looking for something new, you may not find it.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I just thought the Kef's were a better balance given the price of the AVR and it's room correction technology. If I was going for better speakers I'd want a better AVR - Anthem for example.
He has decent receiver that would drive both Arendals and XTZs systems just fine up to certain level, we have members already doing that here. :) What they have also done later is added poweramp which has made difference in some cases. We know you hate the old Audussey and it´s more likely that you would change your mind if Rob/Rich would be running some shining MK system with higher range D&M product and the app tweaked so that it won´t alter the top range. You can make it work more similar to ARC.

Celtic13 would most likely look MRX720 for 5.1.2 which is identical to 1120 otherwise. 2800£ you get the better ARC Genesis software, but the performance isn´t any different to 800£ (end of summer price, RRP 1,5k£) costing D&M machine (X4x00 / SR701x serie) as data shows for the 4k£ costing MRX1120.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Sorry not had those Kefs or 950s. Mine are S150s. I heard a pair of IW950s standing on a desk for computer audio and they had a very clear sound playing music, to my ears.
Damn! :facepalm: You are the second person i got mixed. I just saw in MK thread someone talking about how much better the 950 system sounded with movies vs. LS50. I just can´t frickin remember who it was and don´t want to read hundred pages backwards... :laugh:
 

dollag

Well-known Member
from a numbers stand point, the arendals are a lot easier to drivr than the ls50's so would argue the arendals would be the actual smarter choice if the avr was to be used on it's own
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
He has decent receiver that would drive both Arendals and XTZs systems just fine up to certain level, we have members already doing that here. :) What they have also done later is added poweramp which has made difference in some cases. We know you hate the old Audussey and it´s more likely that you would change your mind if Rob/Rich would be running some shining MK system with higher range D&M product and the app tweaked so that it won´t alter the top range. You can make it work more similar to ARC.

Celtic13 would most likely look MRX720 for 5.1.2 which is identical to 1120 otherwise. 2800£ you get the better ARC Genesis software, but the performance isn´t any different to 800£ (end of summer price, RRP 1,5k£) costing D&M machine (X4x00 / SR701x serie) as data shows for the 4k£ costing MRX1120.
I think Audssey is fine at the entry level. What the amp drives is irrelevant, how it sounds is. I said If I waned something like the Arendals I'd want a better receiver - something like an Anthem, so therefore based on the OP's choices I felt the KEF's a better option for the Marantz leaving a more balanced system.

Adding power amps or anything else wasn't asked, so it wasn't addressed.

On to you personal comments.

You make yourself look dumb if you think that what my friends tell me will change my opinion on what I like and don't like. You obviously don't know me or them for that matter, you just thought you'd put a little snidey comment in there because what you know and what you think you know are two very different things. If you want go down this road you'll be dealing with the mods.
 
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dollag

Well-known Member
I just thought the Kef's were a better balance given the price of the AVR and it's room correction technology. If I was going for better speakers I'd want a better AVR - Anthem for example.
from a personal stand point, i dont feel like the arendal are leaps and bounds above the kef r3's. i haven't spent a lot of time with the 1723s so i guess my point is not that valid; however what i do know is that the r3's scale amazingly well. have used them with a pair of nord mono block amplifiers, they are outstanding and couldnt believe what i was hearing compared to being ran off an avr or even my creek evo integrated. it was this reason that i decided to upgrade to the reference line rather than buy the amphions or arendals as an upgrade.

my point is that i wouldnt suggest a lower tier amplifier to pair with the kefs. i feel a lot of people who own the r3's do not get the full potential out of them. due to the sensitivity of the arendals, i'd recommend them with a lower tier more so than the kefs.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
from a personal stand point, i dont feel like the arendal are leaps and bounds above the kef r3's. i haven't spent a lot of time with the 1723s so i guess my point is not that valid; however what i do know is that the r3's scale amazingly well. have used them with a pair of nord mono block amplifiers, they are outstanding and couldnt believe what i was hearing compared to being ran off an avr or even my creek evo integrated. it was this reason that i decided to upgrade to the reference line rather than buy the amphions or arendals as an upgrade.

my point is that i wouldnt suggest a lower tier amplifier to pair with the kefs. i feel a lot of people who own the r3's do not get the full potential out of them. due to the sensitivity of the arendals, i'd recommend them with a lower tier more so than the kefs.
Yeah I see they aren't very sensitive looking at the sheet now but then again the Arendal 1723 aren't that much better not sure how that difference would play out in real world listening all things considered?

Then Vs price and the fact he likes his other pair so much plus physical size, probably has a better asthetic and more money to redirect elsewhere. At least he can demo them with minimal fuss and expense.

Not really sure how we got on to r3's While waiting for a power amp I was running my r2s on an Anthem 720 (I think) and it wasn't too bad fwiw. I wouldn't think Arendals would be ahead of r3's or r2s either, but I haven't heard them.

Ignore that - not my day for identifying speaker models, clearly.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I think Audssey is fine at the entry level. What the amp drives is irrelevant, how it sounds is. I said If I waned something like the Arendals I'd want a better receiver - something like an Anthem, so therefore based on the OP's choices I felt the KEF's a better option for the Marantz leaving a more balanced system.

Adding power amps or anything else wasn't asked, so it wasn't addressed.

On to you personal comments.

You make yourself look dumb if you think that what my friends tell me will change my opinion on what I like and don't like. You obviously don't know me or them for that matter, you just thought you'd put a little snidey comment in there because what you know and what you think you know are two very different things. If you want go down this road you'll be dealing with the mods.
OP mentioned possibly changing amp depending of funds so i thought just like Gibbsy that poweramp could be one option which is VERY popular way to bring the performance further without upgrading the receiver and he can certainly start with Marantz, with any speakers he want to buy.

Audussey being only for entry level, well that is your opinion which is based for the first version you heard. Clearly the experience was horrible so that is why i have asked you to re-think and try it again cause i know you have heard lot of different gear and would appreciate if you could give it another go. :)

No you got it wrong. I should have wroted in different way cause it wasn´t meant like that. I would only want to hear your thoughts of it, not anyone else affecting that. And the only place i could think of you to easily hear new D&M product with app would be Rich/Rob where you visit often listening MKs. Well that is the picture i have gotten anyway.. But yeah back to topic now.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Audussey being only for entry level, well that is your opinion which is based for the first version you heard. Clearly the experience was horrible so that is why i have asked you to re-think and try it again cause i know you have heard lot of different gear and would appreciate if you could give it another go. :)
Heard it, with app in tow. Don't care for it, didn't hear much of a difference but they weren't side by side, same room and speakers. Heard Arcam's fist implementation of Dirac, wasn't overly impressed with that either.

No you got it wrong. I should have wroted in different way cause it wasn´t meant like that. I would only want to hear your thoughts of it, not anyone else affecting that. And the only place i could think of you to easily hear new D&M product with app would be Rich/Rob where you visit often listening MKs. Well that is the picture i have gotten anyway.. But yeah back to topic now.
Yes you should have, I make sure I'm as careful as possible not to say anything to anyone on here that I wouldn't say to their face (and there's a few that know that already) - and to follow up these are not the only places I'm hearing things.

There are people I know in my country too, that also own Marantz products. Not to mention the retailers here, tho somewhat limited and countless other demos in HiFi stores in London, where I occasionally have to work and some kind invites from other forums users.

Oh and of course the many many different systems at ISE every year - maybe that will help with your picture.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Heard it, with app in tow. Don't care for it, didn't hear much of a difference but they weren't side by side, same room and speakers. Heard Arcam's fist implementation of Dirac, wasn't overly impressed with that either.
Ok. It´s certainly tricky to get perfect idea with different rooms & speakers. Also how the person has tweaked the app as you can change the target curves to suit individual taste, limiting the correction under room transition frequency or full range correction etc. In XT32 case it has also individual sub eq for dual subs which is quite big factor for many, missing still from Dirac/ARC last time i checked.

Dodge went from Anthem to flagship Marantz with Arendals. And you probably have seen few members coming from Dirac to them aswell, so i wouldn`t count them out just yet. :)

Yes you should have, I make sure I'm as careful as possible not to say anything to anyone on here that I wouldn't say to their face (and there's a few that know that already) - and to follow up these are not the only places I'm hearing things.

There are people I know in my country too, that also own Marantz products. Not to mention the retailers here, tho somewhat limited and countless other demos in HiFi stores in London, where I occasionally have to work and some kind invites from other forums users.

Oh and of course the many many different systems at ISE every year - maybe that will help with your picture.
Yes my writing style and choice of words may be bit different to others as English isn´t my native language so bear with me. :) Nothing against you or anyone else at AVF as long as one doesn´t come as hostile.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Yes my writing style and choice of words may be bit different to others as English isn´t my native language so bear with me. :) Nothing against you or anyone else at AVF as long as one doesn´t come as hostile.
Did not know that, fair enough.

Ok. It´s certainly tricky to get perfect idea with different rooms & speakers. Also how the person has tweaked the app as you can change the target curves to suit individual taste, limiting the correction under room transition frequency or full range correction etc. In XT32 case it has also individual sub eq for dual subs which is quite big factor for many, missing still from Dirac/ARC last time i checked.

Dodge went from Anthem to flagship Marantz with Arendals. And you probably have seen few members coming from Dirac to them aswell, so i wouldn`t count them out just yet. :)

There's multi sub support in ARC and Dirac. You won't ever see me praising the implementation of Arcam's Dirac, another thing I've been vocal about, but Storm seem to have nailed it and just recently added to it. Just like JBL Synthesis for some reason seems to outdo Trinnov in every demo so far and they're supposed to be the same unit or not quite - I'm a little spotty on that? I think it's ARCOS and not TEQ

@DodgeTheViper has gone from everything to everything and will likely continue to do so. To paraphrase his words it's something along the lines of how he learns. He doesn't care for MK for example, but they're a reference reviewed speaker here and around the industry, but that doesn't make him wrong and AVF/Me/whoever right if that's what he believes.

Quite a lot of people like to change their stuff up, for all sorts or reasons. I'm a bit more rigid unless something really impresses me. @donttrustgoats did a reasonably objective deep dive on various EQ systems in his place - his findings can be found somewhere backed with measurements.

Also the last forum meet at Gecko where they tested several different EQ's to a bunch of forum members who owned various products almost unanimously rated Audyssey at the bottom @Steve356 can shed more light on this.


It may be fine for a lot of people, I remain at this time unimpressed and prefer Room Perfect.
 
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Steve356

Distinguished Member
The Gecko tests were quite conclusive, subjectively, not objectively, i.e listening stereo tests, but no measurements. Audyssey came last followed closely by Dirac. A close 2nd went ARC, with first place consistently going to Room Perfect.

Having said that, I got reasonable, not great, results from Audyssey in my room. Dirac is OK in my room -- not terrible any longer with the latest Dirac software, but not great either. I couldn't get on with ARC in my room, but have changed my front speakers since testing, so probably have to re-visit it at some time. Room Perfect was the best by far for stereo, but again with my old speakers, so will be trying it again to see if I can get the stereo performance again allied to a better 5.1 experience with my new LCR.
 

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