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Kef 65DS work with TDM34DS's?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Mark Ward, Jun 18, 2002.

  1. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Kef Ref 2.2 Fronts
    Kef Model 100 Centre
    Kef TDM34DS Surrounds

    Would Kef 65DS work well with the above for 7.1? I'd be using the 65DS's as rears.

    This setup is still in my family's lounge (dedicated room still not ready!) I really can't fit direct firing rears in behind me due to cabinet depth and another set of TDM's would be a bit of a squeeze.

    What do you guys reckon?

    I'll be using mainly Logic7 through my S/H Lex MC-1 which finally arrives either Friday or next week :D

    Mark.
     
  2. GaryG

    GaryG
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    Hi Mark

    On my DC1 the sides contribute less information than the rears in Logic 7, if that's the case with the MC-1 would it not be better to use the 65's on the sides and the 34's on the rear?
     
  3. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Is this the case generally with L7?

    I've yet to hear it in a home environment so I have very little knowledge about it.

    The thinking behind the 65DS's for rears was to do with the physical size of the TDMs being too big for where I'd have to place them behind. The TDM's will fit, but will look very obtrusive compared to the smaller 65DS's.

    I only have 2 ft from sweet spot to rear wall, and the rear wall is very visible in the room as you have to walk along it to get to the kitchen.

    If the rears are so important to L7 I'll seriously consider another pair of TDMs.

    Others have recommended direct firing rears, but I just can't see any way to fit them in.

    Cheers,

    Mark.
     
  4. GaryG

    GaryG
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    Mark

    Here's a brain dump.

    I've just replaced the sides and rears which were Q15's (with Ref 4 Uni-Q drivers) with the TDM34's. With the Q15's Logic 7 was pretty impressive, by far the best of the various modes available on the DC1, but, with my old version 2 software the sides were never noticeable unless disconnected, at which point it's obvious that they were contributing to the overall effect. The rears in contrast were very obvious, this is where all the effects were percieved to come from.

    Now, with 2 pairs of TDM 34's, my first reaction, an opinion which has not changed yet, is that the rear speakers don't really fit in with the Logic 7 concept, the overall sound seemed to be better when using a 5.1 setup and only having one pair of speakers in the side position as recommended by KEF.

    Looking at the principle of operation of these speakers I would think that a 6.1 system would be the optimum setup, a pair at the sides with the speakers mounted in line with the ears above head height (the null position) and a single TDM34 behind the head, again above head height in the null position. With 2 rear speakers your head is not in the null position for either speaker (unless you have two heads!) thus regating the desired effect.
     
  5. GaryG

    GaryG
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  6. Paul Smith

    Paul Smith
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    I think as long as the null position of the 65DS is taken into account they should be a very good addition to your setup.

    My experience was that the sides contributed at the very least as much information as the rears in my setup.

    GaryG said "a single TDM34 behind the head"

    Dipoles are not designed for single use and should not be used in such a case, perhaps you are confusing TDM34's with Bipoles.

    Paul.
     
  7. Rob

    Rob
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    Mark,

    I also use 2 pairs of TDM34s, As has been said, they don't work particularly well when used as a pair from behind. Pretty much impossible to sit in the 'null' using 2. I modified my back pair to run as bipoles. Its easy enough to try out, and certainly sounds better to me. Its just a matter of changing the polarity of the negative uni-q hf & mf sections. This is the side that faces the rear of the room when on side walls, (this is different for left and right.)

    If you do end up using a pair as back speakers, you are supposed to swap the left and right around. This is so the positive sides of the speakers are central . This was the advice given by Ron Locke (the Kef guy, haven't see him here for a while)


    Regards Rob.
     
  8. GaryG

    GaryG
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    Rob

    Thanks for your contribution, just the information I was looking for. I was debating whether to go back to a direct radiator for the rears but in light of your experience I may try out your modification.
     
  9. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    I thinking that the best plan is to find some way to incorporate direct firing behind me. I really don't know how I'll achive it though.

    I'm also still considering using the pair of 65DS's but with an MDF wedge behind each so that the null position of each points to the main listening position.

    My side TDMs are marginally behind the listening position too so I'll try a wedge behind them too.

    Thanks for all the info... My Lex MC1 arrives on Thursday morning and I hope to get the 7.1 setup very soon afterwards.

    Mark.
     
  10. gregs

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    Hi guys,

    my first post in this forum so be gentle with me!,

    I have a kef system, and was in the process of searching for a second pair of 65ds surrounds for rears, however, before i had bought them I spoke to a very informed dealer, who came up with a novel (to me) approach that admitidaly goes against convention - his thought (which he backed up very well) was that as the sides are in effect ambient channels, and the rears used for effect shifts, the sides should be diffuse and the rears direct radiating - i therefore used the Q85 surrounds I already had.

    what do people think?
     
  11. Jase

    Jase
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    Should be spot on, THX Ultra 2 now recommend this configuration. Before I changed my Kefs I had TDM34´s at the sides and Q85´s as surround backs. Worked well.:)
     

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