KEF 3000SE owner in 2022 looking at Atmos: time to let go? what are my options?

Haag

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Long time lurker first time poster so please go easy on me.

After 15 years outside of the home theatre world I'm about to embark on a home cinema build in a multi-purpose room with a retractable screen that will be the centre of the room.

I currently own a Denon 6700H Receiver (new purchase) which will power a 7.2.4 Atmos layout. I am using the receiver with a KEF 3000SE HT system from 2006 which I am happy with, however I'm aware that I'm likely living in ignorance and that despite the volume levels being the perfect fit, technology has likely moved forward with regards to definition and immersion.

I'm looking at in-wall LCR's and in-ceiling Atmos channels. Is it still feasible to use the KEF's for surround and rear surround duties or is it time to let go? I'd prefer to go with a fully discreet system but I don't think my budget will stretch just yet with projector, screen, cables and install having to be accounted for. The LCR's need to be replaced with in-walls, whilst the surrounds would have to be on-wall, rather than in-wall due to noise concerns.

What would be my best options for an upgrade path considering my setup already puts out more than enough volume. I likely have £4-£5k to play with and am not shy about the second hand market.
Recommendations for all speakers are more than welcomed 🙂
 
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You will probably get better replies in this part of the forum.:)
Home Cinema Buying & Building

Katie Mitchell Netflix GIF by Sony Pictures Animation
 
@Haag

You've had no response to your original post so I have moved it here in the hope that it will attract more attention.
 
Long time lurker first time poster so please go easy on me.

After 15 years outside of the home theatre world I'm about to embark on a home cinema build in a multi-purpose room with a retractable screen that will be the centre of the room.

I currently own a Denon 6700H Receiver (new purchase) which will power a 7.2.4 Atmos layout. I am using the receiver with a KEF 3000SE HT system from 2006 which I am happy with, however I'm aware that I'm likely living in ignorance and that despite the volume levels being the perfect fit, technology has likely moved forward with regards to definition and immersion.

I'm looking at in-wall LCR's and in-ceiling Atmos channels. Is it still feasible to use the KEF's for surround and rear surround duties or is it time to let go? I'd prefer to go with a fully discreet system but I don't think my budget will stretch just yet with projector, screen, cables and install having to be accounted for. The LCR's need to be replaced with in-walls, whilst the surrounds would have to be on-wall, rather than in-wall due to noise concerns.

What would be my best options for an upgrade path considering my setup already puts out more than enough volume. I likely have £4-£5k to play with and am not shy about the second hand market.
Recommendations for all speakers are more than welcomed 🙂
Can you post pictures / floorplan / dimensions of the room? Floorplan is easy to draw takes few minutes to draw hands/via windows paint and upload here. Then we can see where you plan to have screen/lcr and couch etc. Room length, width, ceiling height and screen to MLP distance (where you sit).

Start with the Eggs at surround channels (x4)! Especially as you require compact on-wall wife friendly speakers then you basically have them already. This being multipurpose room so not really dedicated man cave/theater room where the requirements are typically quite different / lifestyle satellite speakers are rarely used.

More importantly this way you can spend more money in the areas which matters most and where you hear the difference most = LCR speakers and subwoofers. It´s much easier to change the on-wall effect speakers later than changing LCR in-walls making new holes on wall etc. So by using the HTS3001SE speakers x4 you save at least 1000£ which can be used elsewhere! Most discreet on-wall surround speakers will cost at least 500£/pair so surround l/r + surround backs = 1k£ min.

Hopefully the subwoofers doesn´t have to be in-wall variants. There is ways to "hide" them but that requires some carefull planning and building unit at the front/rear wall. Hopefully they can be visible in the room and you have free hands where to place them cause it`s critical with two subwoofers to gain the advantages. In short; the subwoofers might not sound best where they look best. I think we can limit options if you give some requirements regarding max size (depth/height) and finish black ash oak/satin/matte/gloss or white / wood veneers like walnut etc. It`s quite safe to assume one who builds 5k£ atmos system that he watches lot of action/scifi type of material so high performing woofers can make dramatic difference making the whole system sound amazing.
 
Also a little bit more information if possible please about your "noise concerns" as that could affect the recommendations 🙂
 
Hi everyone, sorry for the late reply and thanks for moving my thread to the appropriate area.

Some great questions raised so I thought I’d answer some of those questions and explain the reasoning for some of my decisions as-well as share the floor plan.
The multi-use space will be a screening room/ YouTube studio and bedroom (I interview on-screen talent for a living). After a number of strokes I’m trying to reduce clutter in preparation for any mobility issues that may come later.

The Room

Here’s the room plan complete with scrawling from a installer who wanted to go all in-ceiling (no thank you).


PROPOSED SECOND.pdf


3.048 meters extension

+

4.87 meters room length

x

4 meters wide (at the shallowest width)

x

Height 2.407 meters high

Angled wall from front of the house stops at 2.042 m in with the lowest wall at the front measuring 1.0668 meters high.

The beam area will have one step up due to how the original loft conversion was built in the 1990’s but will have removable ramps.

Projector, Screen and Seating

The projector being used will be the Epson 9400 and the motorised screen size is being looked at between 100 and 120 inches. There will be a substantial window that the screen will drop over but the screen will be transparently acoustic and there will be space either side and below for LCR’s.

I don’t have exact measurements for where the projector would be mounted but I’m told that I have more than enough space and distance with the plan for the mounting position to be placed for best performance.
The window size hasn’t been confirmed just yet but I want a sizeable window for personal reasons including an system with different coloured lights in the room signalling if I'm having an issue to my fantastic neighbours if anything were to go wrong. The window also acts as another decent background for YouTube. Don;t worry, there will also be black-out blinds for watching movies during the day.

Sofa is looking to be a modular sofa to be positioned 0.6096m from the ridge beam.

Speakers

As stated before I currently run a 5.1 KEF 3000SE system from 2006 through a DENON 6700H. I'm looking to upgrade to a 7.2.4 system with LCR in wall and on-wall or discreet surrounds and rears. One wall is purely plasterboard to separate from the stairway, whilst the other wall is connected to the neighbours with a brick wall in between as part of a semi-detached build. Thankfully they never hear my movies, even when I crank it up and invite them for tea the following day to doubly make sure.

I’ve been told by multiple people that simply building on my current 5.1 setup is not a good fit for the increase in space (and I’m guessing technological advancements). For that reason I’m looking at in-wall LCR and surrounds that aren’t to obtrusive (I dont have to buy everything in one hit). I’d be more than happy to repurpose the KEF eggs for surround for now as per suggestion from Gasp3621.

So far I have been recommended Monitor Audio WSS430's for LCRs and awaiting a full quote and build from Sevenoaks Sound and Vision.

As for Subwoofer’s they can go anywhere. My preference for subs is to add to the immersion rather than rock the house (especially being on the third floor).

Usage

Usage will be 70% movies 30% music for Spatial Audio and Atmos Music listening.

So that everyone has further idea of my tastes, I watch a fair bit of action and sci-fi but also love the subtlety in atmospherics from horror and thrillers at the cinema along with the odd thud during a bit of slapstick comedy. I mainly watch my content through streaming on Apple TV 4K with the majority of my viewing being Apple TV+ and a substantial collection of iTunes movie/TV purchases in the thousands, as-well as Disney+, Peacock, HBO Max subscriptions. That said, after seeing Nope and Top Gun in theatres I'm tempted to get back into physical media.

Thank you everyone in advance for your help.
 
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The WSS430 speakers looks rather compact sized with three 3" drivers and even in Monitor Audio site they are shown as surround speakers. You could consider the higher performing CP model which also comes with back box so the bass response is optimized. I know some might say the ribbon tweeters would sound sweeter which probably is true, but it´s trade a off to get less dynamic capable LCR speakers then. Generally speaking if you don´t need to go small/ultra low depth with LCR then look elsewhere! You would mount these (or even the WSS430) vertically upright including centre too and the center channel at same height as L/R (tweeter at seated ear height) behind the AT-screen. Centre is most active speaker in your system so optimizing the placement is important! One of the greatest benefits with at-screen is you get the centre at correct height, not below screen.


There is also 3-way version with the addition of 4" mid-range driver so even better:

Dali has the Phantom in-wall speakers which would be similar to their Opticon range which many loves:

If you could spend more for the LCR then i would also consider these models, there is some good feedback for them if you dig little bit.


1200£ RRP:

Seriously LTD forum advertiser does installation for M&K (St Albans hour away from London):

As for the ceiling speakers it would most likely mean that you need to go slightly cheaper if you put more ££ in to LCR. That is perfectly fine, even mixing brands which is what most people do! Kef`s QR range would be something to consider as they have so long experience with the UniQ coaxial drivers. There is of course cheaper models for roughly 600£ (=4 speakers) if it comes to that.

For subwoofers see my post 6# here and the links for products. I think what you are after those would be quite ideal for you. Another cheaper alternative would be SVS SB1000 Pro (x2) roughly 550£/each.


Rel has the HT/1205 model on sale now cause it will be discontinued soon with new model arriving. You are in full control how loud the subwoofer plays so no need to worried of that. Of course when building this type of system you want decent impact, but i also see your worry about neighbour hearing something. You do seem to have good sound proofing which is great and having good relationship with neighbour you can ask him to watch sports/test the system with couple beers so i don´t think you would have issues going forward. It´s easy to test the system pushing it louder with some blockbuster movie and finding the volume limit where neighbour can hear it/comes annoying. Like going example -30 to -25, -20, -15 etc. with master volume, text messaging him when you bump it.

If you have no idea of the models linked then google AVForums and Home Cinema Choice reviews for these SVS, Rel, Arendal models mentioned.
 
If you could spend more for the LCR then i would also consider these models, there is some good feedback for them if you dig little bit.


As for the ceiling speakers it would most likely mean that you need to go slightly cheaper if you put more ££ in to LCR. That is perfectly fine, even mixing brands which is what most people do! Kef`s QR range would be something to consider as they have so long experience with the UniQ coaxial drivers. There is of course cheaper models for roughly 600£ (=4 speakers) if it comes to that.
Wow, genuinely couldn't be more grateful for your post and willingness to help.
I have long heard that you should try to match brands or collections so the idea of mixing and matching brands is a little alien to me so definitely something in my mindset I may need to change.

Because KEF are just down the road and because of my previous positive experience with them I am very tempted by the Ci3160RL's for fronts and the Ci160QR's for in-ceiling. Whilst I may need to move my budget around a bit, I genuinely love the look of the Ci3160RL's and haven't seen a bad word said about them (even beating out some at 2X the cost).

A question regarding the UniQ coaxial drivers. In real-world experience are these a better bet than having directional tweeters for the in-ceiling Dolby Atmos channels in the space I'm in?

Again, genuinely grateful for all this help. I popped into a couple of retail chains who were either a bit slap-dash in their approach, didnt listen to my requirements, wanted to sell the brand they owned or were just plain dismissive. Thank you.
 
Wow, genuinely couldn't be more grateful for your post and willingness to help.
I have long heard that you should try to match brands or collections so the idea of mixing and matching brands is a little alien to me so definitely something in my mindset I may need to change.

Because KEF are just down the road and because of my previous positive experience with them I am very tempted by the Ci3160RL's for fronts and the Ci160QR's for in-ceiling. Whilst I may need to move my budget around a bit, I genuinely love the look of the Ci3160RL's and haven't seen a bad word said about them (even beating out some at 2X the cost).

A question regarding the UniQ coaxial drivers. In real-world experience are these a better bet than having directional tweeters for the in-ceiling Dolby Atmos channels in the space I'm in?

Again, genuinely grateful for all this help. I popped into a couple of retail chains who were either a bit slap-dash in their approach, didnt listen to my requirements, wanted to sell the brand they owned or were just plain dismissive. Thank you.

Yes the Ci3160RL should be quite ideal what you looking for and looking some objective measurements they are one of the best in the price class. Not that suprising knowing Kef. They are basically equal to their R-serie speakers which we know are very good indeed. There is ton of dealers for Kef so you could send "couple" emails asking deals for the LCR. :)

I don´t know the answer for the Atmos question, but they do have wide dispersion especially the more expensive units. "UniQ sit anywhere in the room to hear all detail" If you go with them then i would choose the QR ending model which has the 19mm tweeters. Ci160QR or Ci200QR, so either 6,5" or 8" driver size variant. The top of the range is the THX models, but spending 2000£ for (4) ceiling speakers alone is probably not what you have planned. The OSDs are really good too judging from feedback and people have them in quite expensive systems playing very loud so yeah you have few options.

Not sure are you installing them yourself, but here is guide for that. Naturally you need to consider also how the distance from screen edges and for the centre the distance from speaker to at-screen as there needs to be some space. Dealer / Kef will know the answers.

 
A question regarding the UniQ coaxial drivers. In real-world experience are these a better bet than having directional tweeters for the in-ceiling Dolby Atmos channels in the space I'm in?
As a long time owner of R Series KEFs I can confirm that the UniQ design does indeed have a wide dispersion. Quite a room filling experience without drawing attention to them even off axis, I'm talking here tough about a front soundstage presentation.
 
Thanks @gibbsy @Gasp3621 I’m sold and going for them after taking a listen this morning at a colleagues house who it turns out has a mix of 5160’s and 3160s. Now to make some calls so that everything is ready to go for the first fix whilst I’m away. Admittedly I’m not handy at all. I’m more of a code and screen type of guy.

@Seriously Ltd will be getting a call first thing tomorrow morning. Hopefully that way I can give back to the forum by choosing a forum partner.

Thanks again. More updates as I get them.
 
A little update. Building is nearly done and the fun will begin in a couple of weeks once the room is plastered and decorated. So far kit that's just waiting around to be installed includes:

3x KEF Ci3160RL - £2800
4x KEF Ci160QR (Atmos) - £680
Grandview 138 inch motorised tab tensioned screen - £1999
Still trying to make the budget fit an Epson LS12000B but more likely it'll be a TW9400 until Epson come out with a Native 4K projector

Photo's to come
 

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