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Kef 2005 KHTs not satsifying as expected

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by James Sharp, Jan 3, 2002.

  1. James Sharp

    James Sharp
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    When I finally got my system together that I'd been saving up for over a year or so (Pioneer DV636 dvd player, Yamaha DSP A5 amp, Kef 2005 KHT speakers and JVC AV32WFT1) and got it set up in my front room I was... well, disapointed. Not with the TV or the DVD player, which give a terrific picture, but with the richness amd fullness of the sound. I've heard the speakers sound fantastic in other setups so it shouldn't be them - which leaves me with the amp or the speaker cable.

    I haven't exactly broken the bank with the cable - I wasn't sure where my system would be in the room until recently. Is this more likely to be the problem? Or should I have saved for longer and got a better amp? The Pioneer VSX908 seems to be coming into my price range at the moment, and the yamaha dspax620 also seems to be very well thought of (but is it just a DSP A5 in a new box)? I've heard mutterings about needing variable crossover freequency to get the best from the Kefs but this is a bit over my head - what's that all about?

    Short of finding someone who will bring all of the stuff into my living room I'm a bit stuck. I know I've rambled on but I'm both frustrated and confused. Help!
     
  2. General Skanky

    General Skanky
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    I haven't heard the KEF Eggs, but IMHO they are an updated version of the KEF 60s/80c package. Now those I know, and I'd say they are everything 'but' rich.
    Clear, articulate, open etc yes, but not rich. It was one of the reasons I upgraded. Maybe the new Eggs have overcome that, but looking at their driver specs they don't appear too different.

    I take it you have a sub in there? I used a REL Q Bass, that helps.
    In the end though, there is no substitute for a speaker to have a bit of its own bass. The 60s cut off at something like 120Hz, which equated to me a bright sound.

    Does any of this sound familiar? If not, sorry just trying to give a pointer.

    From my own experiences, an amp is bright if it's a bit weedy, but not the Yamaha I believe. I know I had a better sound going from a Yamaha 590 to the A2, yes a bit richer, but it was fundamentally the speakers and my room. Now I use Q35.2 with a Model 100 at the front.

    Having said all that, allow a few days to a week or two for it all to run in. Everything can sound crappy first off. How long have you had it all?
     
  3. lmccauley

    lmccauley
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    If you've heard the kefs sound good in another system, and you have a decent amp (and the Yamaha A5 is a decent enough amp) then you have probably set something up incorrectly. I have heard that the instructions for setting up the Kef eggs and sub-woofer are not very good, so it might be worth asking how others have connected them up.

    On the amp, do you have all speakers set to "small" and the subwoofer set to active (or whatever terminology the A5 uses to indicate that it thinks there is a sub connected)? Have you adjusted the relative levels and time delays?

    Sorry if this is very basic and obvious, but sometimes it's worth going back to first principles and checking every connection and setting to make sure you haven't missed anything or made any incorrect assumptions.

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  4. jamespvg

    jamespvg
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    The KEF eggs need some serious (50+ hours) run in before they start to work their magic - keep going with them, I think you'll see results.
     
  5. paiger

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    Yeah, run them in. I was gutted when I got my Ruarks home after dreaming of them for so long. They sounded hollow and raspy. I knew they needed running in but I couldn't believe it would make that much difference. Well, it does and I am now delighted with my speaks and would recommend them to anyone. Be patient before you judge, I know exactly how you feel though. You hear other peoples stuff and save up your folding, read all the reviews and make your choice, then it sounds naff.

    Give it some time (and some welly, MTV 24 hours a day in multi channel did it for me).

    S
     
  6. GaryG

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    To run them in select whatever mode it is on your amp that allows a CD to play through all the speakers (party mode or whatever) and leave the CD on constant replay while you're at work, should run the speakers in within a week.
     
  7. Lowrider

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    The crossover point is very important with those and other small speakers, should be 120 hz or so... Also make sure the crossover setting of the subwoofer is set to maximum, fully clockwise...
     
  8. Desticado

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    When it comes to sound I confess to likeing what i hear but struggling to tell the difference sometimes (such as DD Vs DTS) but I always like to learn.

    Could someone explain to me what it is that actually happens to speakers when you 'run them in' Cheers.
     
  9. mja

    mja
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    James,

    I too have the 'Eggs' linked to a Denon AVR-3802 (a pretty common setup now I think!) - and although I was happy with the sound (speakers set to small, crossover in the amp set to 80 and cranked right round to max on the sub) I was astonished at the difference achieved by upgrading from bell-wire cable to 'proper' speaker cable. I chose QED original for the fronts and center and QED micro for the rears (equal lengths to fronts and centre, and equal to the rears (though different to the front lengths!!)) Most sources (especially FM radio) sound much richer, less sibillance (sp?) and for quite a modest outlay (£2-£3 per meter) I think the sound is significantly better. Give it a go if like me you hooked it up with string to start with!!
     
  10. Lowrider

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    mja,

    Try setting the crossover to 100 hz, or 120 hz, You should get much fuller sound, particularly male vocals. I did that test, tell us what you find. With higher than 80 hz you should place your sub near the front speakers, as sound is more directional above 80 hz.
     
  11. mja

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    Lowrider,

    Thanks for the suggestion - I have tried at both 100 and 120 (btw, my sub is parallel with the fronts) and at least to my ears in my environment, the sats sound better with the crossover set to 80 (I have the crossover on the sub set to max so that I don't clip at the crossover frequency since I think the control is one of the weak points in the sub's design; have I set it to 80, 70 or 90 - who knows?!), but leaving all these settings unchanged when I upgraded the cables added so much more depth and clarity to the whole lot.

    Cheers,
    Mark.
     
  12. Lowrider

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    Yes, the cables are very important, at least when you go from standard to proper ones, I am not going to war over cables again... ;)

    Also you are right setting the sub crossover to maximum, we are talking about receiver´s crossover here, and I tested in two friend´s and found out that the eggs loose a lot under 120 hz...
     
  13. lmccauley

    lmccauley
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    Here is a graph showing measurements made by Sound & Vision .

    They agree with Lowrider's measurements that the satelites lose power below about 120Hz.

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  14. mja

    mja
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    Well, there's no arguing with scientific proof is there?!! :eek:

    Actually, since the cable upgrade I have not re-tested all the settings to see which sounds best - this I must do!

    The trouble with this sort of equipment is that it is impossible to draw anecdotal comparisons, as there are so many variables to be checked (crossover frequency, delay/distance adjustment, listening mode (DPL II, DTS Neo:6, Direct, etc.) all of which sound completely different in a single setup let alone in different places with different sources etc.

    In this regard, the best advice (IMHO) is to play with the settings until you find a sound you are happy with - as long as you're happy then all the technical arguments become purely academic.

    As far as James' original question is concerned, I still suggest examining the speaker cable as a potential for great improvement.

    Cheers,
    Mark.
     
  15. paiger

    paiger
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    Would somebody (Lowrider?) be kind enough to explain the relevance of the crossover setting on a reciever? What does it actually do? I have Ruark Dialogue R speakers as mains at the mo and a Sony 940 amp. On certain recordings (Eva Cassidy) I get a slight buzz on certain sounds. I can't hear it on other systems but I have so far concluded that this is because they are not good enough to reproduce the poor recording properly (!!). I need to listen to it on some quality speakers to find out.

    Would the crossover setting affect this? I actually have my amp in 'analogue direct' mode when listening to CD's so I'm not even sure if the crossover setting is in use then. What you think? I just checked and all speakers (no sub yet) are set to 120 and I have quality QED phonos and speaker cable.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  16. Guest

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    when we got these babies for our dem room I was on the verge of sending them back to kef 'cos they sounded awful.But after a phonecall to kef I was advised to give them a least 48 hours
    hard use to run them in .and it worked they now bound superb
    regards rob23
     
  17. Lowrider

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    The crossover will separate the high frequencies to the speakers, the low (bass) to the subwoofer.

    You are right, in direct mode everything should go to the front speakers, no subwoofer, unless you also have the low level connection.

    As you don´t have subwoofer, it doesn´t matter wich crossover you set...
     
  18. paiger

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    OK, thanks.
     

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