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kef 100

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by marcoeser, May 21, 2002.

  1. marcoeser

    marcoeser
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    hello,

    Here's my system:

    Sony 32" TV,
    Sony 735 DVD (multi region),
    Sony TA-E9000ES (firmware version 2.5)
    Sony TA-N9000ES,
    Sony SLV-E810EE VHS Video,
    Sony 750 Sky digibox (1.3m satellite dish),
    Kef Q55 front (bi-wired), Q95c Centre, Q15 rear speakers
    Rel Strata III Sub-woofer
    Van Den Hul First Ultimate interconnects for front and center speakers
    Van Den Hul TeaTrack bi-wire for front speakers
    Van Den Hul CS122 for center speaker
    QED original speaker cables for rears

    I am auditioning the KEF 100c tonight to replace my 95c. I am not sure what the best way of doing it is. Can anyone suggest a certain dvd to use? Is there anything regarding build quality I should look out for, like cracks bumps etc? Should there be date stamped on the speaker?
    What kind of price should I be asking, what is the limit I should get it for. I saw the same speaker sell on ebay the other day for È131 and then I see it on superfi for more than È300.

    Another question I'm asking myself is, should I forget the 100c and save for the new 202c. Any thoughts about this? does anyone have prices for the new ref range. I am wanting to replace my 55's with something like the new 203 some time in the text 2 years so mayve the 202 will be more suitable.:confused:

    Any suggestions will be helpful

    marc :)
     
  2. Jase

    Jase
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    Hi Marc

    The model 100 is an excellent speaker, my father has one in his system, it works well with all types of films whether they´re dialogue heavy or not.

    Cant remember if theres a date of build stamped on them, theres a serial number definitely. The speaker should have bi-wire terminals, some earlier versions didnt apparently so watch for that. It shouldnt have any cracks or bumps unless its been dropped!! 2nd hand should be around 150-200 or if you can track one down new, around 350 quid.

    The new Reference range are supposed to be excellent, theres a thread on the new 202 centre in this forum, started by Steve EX, worth looking at as he highly recommends it. Its an expensive speaker though at a grand.

    Hope this helps

    cheers
     
  3. Guest

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    The Model 100C is a stunning centre speaker - Kef aren't lying when they say on the site that it is generally regarded as one of the best centre speakers ever made. It was first brought out in 1994 and is still being manufactured today - that is how good the design is, there's just no need to change it!!!!

    The new Reference 202C retails at £1000, and will undoubtedly be excellent...but certainly not 4X as good as the 100C, which is the extra price you'll have to pay!
     
  4. General Skanky

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    I have a 100. Worth every penny. I bought mine for £250 new from Superfi about 8 months ago ish.

    Being a centre speaker I used mono films to judge its ability aswell as good modern 5.1 films of today. Assault on Precinct 13 was one I used. Big difference.

    Can't remember it all now, but I'll be hanging onto mine for quite some time.

    Search the Model 100 on the forum and you'll find loads of info.

    If you buy blind, I don't think you'll be let down.

    Only one negative! It is a bit refined, ie, as What HiFi said about it a while ago, it's not a 100m supercharger, more of a long distance specialist. That may be a bad point for you if you are into full on sound!
     
  5. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    More praise for the Model 100 here too! I had Q55's & Q95C When I bought my Model 100, it is a MASSIVE improvement. Your whole front soundstage just comes together, the Q55's will even sound better.

    Now the bit where I get shot down in flames... Try it set as LARGE, I know most people reckon on setting everything as small but for me I had a noticeable improvement once I tried it set as large.

    How did I find this out? A nice man at Kef here in Maidstone recommended it. Also, if you can give it plenty of power (Bi-Amp or Bridged Amp) it improves still further.

    Best bang-for-bucks upgrade I ever made.

    Look for Type SP3191 on the back, that's the very latest version, the one before was also fine, the only difference was some shielding in the crossover I seem to recall. The earliest ones are easy to spot, they've only got one pair of binding posts and should be avoided, unless it's very cheap and you never intend to bi-amp.

    Hope this helps,

    Mark,

    Mark.
     
  6. marcoeser

    marcoeser
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    Thanks for all your advise. I'll let you know what happens latter, will I have new speaker or not. It all depends on how it sounds. I think my setup sounds very precise and detailed so what're saying aobut the 100 should fit v.well...

    marc :)
     
  7. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
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    I too am very familiar with the very good 100c (a good friend uses two) and what a great speaker it is, but i would humbly add that whilst YOU may not consider it to be worth 4 times the value, it is not really a comparable product to the 202c (i speak with some experience having used a 100c, 200c, TDM23c and now the very pleased owner of the 202c). Just my humble opinion of course.

    Regards

    Steve.
     
  8. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
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    The Kef reference range also greatly benefit from serious amplification, not really best suited to integrated amp solutions.
    (I am fortunate to use the quite old but expensive Denon poa 6600 mono-block for this speaker, some 300 true watts into 8 i believe)


    Steve.
     
  9. Guest

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    Of course 'I' mean that it isn't worth four times as much in 'MY' 'HUMBLEST' opinion - this is a forum where people post 'THEIR' views on stuff. Isn't that the idea?

    Seriously though, who's opinion do you think I was voicing? Henry Kissinger's?
     
  10. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Steve's spot on about the power though, I had mine running through my Integrated Amp 125Watts Channel and thought it was great. Having tried it with a Monoblock-Bridged 340Watts into 8 Ohms the improvement is very noticeable.

    Mark.
     
  11. marcoeser

    marcoeser
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    I got it.:)
    Its is everything you all have said about it: clear & detailed, it just expands the whole front stage in disapears, and the bass has come alive. i played the opening explosion from titan (r1) and there were so much more detail and omf.

    i got it for 200. I couldn't justify spending 5x that on a 202c. I just hope I don't get any real problems when I get the 205 or 207 in the future.

    i agree, my power side could be stronger, but I just love the versatility I get with my tan9000es. I just switch the dial & i get a 2 channel amp with all the combined power of a 5.

    now, I just have to go & listen to all my films again to find all the hidden details...

    marc :)
     
  12. dood

    dood
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    Everyone's raving about the 100C. Let me tell you ablout my experience.

    I had just bought the 95.2C along with 55.2 fronts. Shortly after, I saw a pair of 100Cs second hand at a very good price. After reading everyone's comments about the 100 I dashed out and bought one. When I brought it home and connected it up I discovered that the tweeter had blown. Of course I took it back and had to convince the salesman that the defect was real "what do you mean, these are fantastic speakers. Are you sure you've connected it properly" etc. Anyway he agreed to swap it for the other one, implying under his breath that I had blown the tweeter.

    We tested the other speaker in the shop and it sounded OK with a cheap midi playing music. When I connected it up at home it sounded OK for a while and then I noticed a crackly sound which just got worse.

    The speakers had only one set of terminals, therefore were probably an earlier set of non-bi-wired speakers. The previous owner had used them as REARS!! I'm sure they were abused and damaged.

    I have subsequently used my 95.2C which is going strong.

    The moral of the story is not to buy blind if possible.

    The question that arises is - what does it take to destroy such good speakers?
     
  13. marcoeser

    marcoeser
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    Hi again,
    Does anyone know if the kef100 benefits from bi-wiring? I've bi-wired my q55's and it made a big difference.
    also, is there an optimum distance from the wall for the 100? I see that it has rear bass ports. At the moment the speaker's ontop of my 32" tv which is not that easy to move, but if there is a certain distance this speaker should be from the wall I give it a try.

    I'm still very happy with my recent upgrade, its a pleasure to listen to.

    Marc :D
     
  14. Jase

    Jase
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    Hi Marc

    I had mine bi-wired before I sold it to my Father (who doesnt have it bi-wired) and found (to me) that it did indeed benefit from bi-wiring. It just sounded better to me & my ears, my Father thinks it doesnt after trying it initially.

    I had it about half a metre from the rear wall, in my fathers system its about a metre from the wall. I dont think theres an optimum distance as such, long as its not right slap against the wall. Rear ported speakers need some room to breathe.

    Cheers

    Jase
     
  15. Roman

    Roman
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    Guys,

    Just thought I would share this with you. After hearing a Kef Model 100 in a friends system I thought it would be a good upgrade to my Mission 75C which I have had for some years. However, I had no opportunity to do a home trial and after the purchase, to my surprise, I found that it was not much of an improvement at all. Then, after trying the speaker both above and below the TV and with and without the cloth grille, I discovered that sticking a set of hemispherical rubber feet on the bottom of the speaker brought a staggering improvement in sound quality. These rubber feet are larger than the small flat rubber feet that the speaker already has fitted. It now sounds significantly better than the 75C and worth every penny.

    Give it a try!

    Cheers, Roman
     
  16. marcoeser

    marcoeser
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    I changed the feet on my q55's for 2 reasons, 1) the metal spikes were loose in the wooden casing (I believe its a common trait with these speakers), 2) for better sound. I used Russ Andrew's Oak cone feet, There are only 3 of them which makes the speaker very stable and there is no rocking as you get sometimes with 4 on an uneven floor. They did make the 55's sound a little better. IMHO worth while.
    Roman, thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try with the 100c.

    marc
     
  17. Guest

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    Interesting - mine sounded terrible when I had it on top of the TV, with some very opressive, boomy resonances. I now have it just below head height on a small tower of bricks in front of the TV. Sound great!
     
  18. marcoeser

    marcoeser
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    is anyone using the screw holes in the back of the speaker to mount the 100c to the wall? I'm not quite sure how and where I can get such screws. Is it explained in the manual? I don't have one, can I download one from somewhere?
    marc
     
  19. Guest

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    I would not recommend that you do this as you would completely block the bass reflex ports!
     
  20. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
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    It may well be possible to wall mount, blocking the ports (via foam bungs or the like as indeed some speakers provide) can tighten up the bass considerably and reduce boundry effects, though internal loading may be compromised, cannot remember if this is an option with the 100c or if it has a boundary compensation device fitted (common on more recent Kef speakers) anyway those friendly chaps at Kef will provide you with any info you might require.

    Steve.
     
  21. Matt F

    Matt F
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    Out of interest I recently sent an e-mail to KEF regarding blocking the ports on the 100C as mine is in a fairly confined space. Quite why manufacturers put rear ports on centre speakers is beyond me, by the way.

    Anyway, here is the reply I received today:

    You can block the ports with foam or set the speaker as "small" in bass management. This will route all sub 90Hz frequencies to the subwoofer or main speakers to prevent boom.

    Where they've got the 90Hz figure from is a mystery - 80Hz is more standard in my opinion and why would consider setting the 100C to "large" is also questionable as it only goes down to 70Hz according to KEF's website.

    Anyway, at least it may be worth trying to block the ports with foam. When I get a chance I'll give it a go.

    Matt.
     
  22. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Following advice from a guy at Kef I set my centre to large and found I prefer that setting. A noticeable improvement, particularly with deep male voices.

    I continue to fly the flag for setting speakers to large, against conventional wisdom. Actually more accurately...what I should say is that I continue to recommend trying speakers set to large, don't rule it out. Too many people recommend setting to small, there has to be some reason for that, it's just for me large sounds better.

    Mark.
     
  23. Roman

    Roman
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    I agree with that entirely. I have tried it all ways and now I have all my speakers set to large. In fact my Paradigm ADP 150 rears sound infinitely better set to large, giving a much more convincing sounstage.

    Roman
     
  24. Matt F

    Matt F
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    Interesting comments although technically I can't see the benefit in sending a full range signal to my centre and rears (TDM34s) as they both only go down to 70Hz - yes you'd gain an extra 10Hz i.e. between 80Hz and 70Hz but all the info below this would be lost.

    Having said that, my TAG processor gives me the option of a 50Hz "small speaker" cut off so it might be worth trying that. I think your sentiments are right though - the key is to experiment rather than to follow the normal rules.

    The problem I have at the moment, however, is that the 100C sounds a bit constrained and shut it, no doubt because it hasn't got much space around it - blocking the reflex ports is the first thing I need to try. If that doesn't work then I'll either need a new TV unit with a bigger slot for the centre speaker and (if that doesn't work) to try a sealed centre such as the KEF TDM23C, although I don't know how well this would match tonally with the Ref 2-2s.

    Matt.
     
  25. dood

    dood
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    I'm interested in fixing my blown kef 100 centre speaker. I think the tweeter is gone but my concern is that with the UniQ technology, can the tweeter alone be changed? If not, will it be cost effective to repair? Anyone know what it costs and how difficult a DIY job it would be?
     
  26. marcoeser

    marcoeser
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    I have concluded that the 'guy' in Kef is spot on. I've set my Kef 100c to large, and never looked back, everyone should at least try.

    marc :rolleyes:
     
  27. Guest

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    That's very interesting. Only recently have I tried setting the centre to 'small', and I much prefer that setting!

    I felt the speaker lacked control somewhat whilst trying to reproduce lower frequencies (I guess), because I gained a noticable improvement in clarity when setting the speaker to small.

    Surely the cone will still be resonating at the lower frequencies, but because it's so small you just can't hear them anyway - wouldn't this impact it's ability to remain totally agile in the higher frequencies? Whereas with the processor sending only 80Hz+ to the speaker, it isn't even 'trying'?

    Yeah?
     

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