Keeping up with the latest Brexit News

Which option would you prefer?

  • Leave with no deal

    Votes: 114 78.1%
  • Leave with the WA without the backstop

    Votes: 32 21.9%

  • Total voters
    146
  • This poll will close: .

psikey

Well-known Member
'Will of the people' is just an political slogan. We elect representatives to Parliament and our country is a Parliamentary democracy. Bercow is just doing the will of the House.
So your saying and accepting that the electorate can be told a pack of lies and have no impact? That's not Democracy to me.
 

hunt808

Suspended
So your saying and accepting that the electorate can be told a pack of lies and have no impact? That's not Democracy to me.
You didn’t seem to mind the lies told during the referendum, so why the upset now? But you’re right: when the electorate is deceived, it’s not democracy. Hence why many people think the referendum was illegitimate.
 

psikey

Well-known Member
You didn’t seem to mind the lies told during the referendum, so why the upset now? But you’re right: when the electorate is deceived, it’s not democracy. Hence why many people think the referendum was illegitimate.
Both sides exaggerated, you take in as much info as possible from multiple sources and make your decision as always. A GE (or 2nd binding referendum) should be done ASAP to confirm electorate choice. Personally, I'd sooner be in EU than be half in/half out.

If it has to be Remain then NOT with Corbyn, sooner have the Libs at this time. Can't bare to think Unions & Momentum are running the country.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
The country is deeply divided over Brexit and so is Parliament. I would say the latter is mirroring the country quite well TBH.
The people are more for brexit than against. If our parliament was representative they would be for leaving.

1570649456123.png
 

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member
This apparent fear/distrust of QMV from predominantly Leave supporters confuses me.

In this thread alone, there are numerous posts loudly proclaiming the death of democracy, failure to respect a majority, having our votes ignored etc yet there is equal concern over the EU using actual democratic voting to make decisions?

“When the Council votes on a proposal by the Commission or the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, a qualified majorityis reached if two conditions are met:

  • 55% of member states vote in favour - in practice this means 16 out of 28
  • the proposal is supported by member states representing at least 65% of the total EU population
This procedure is also known as the 'double majority' rule.”

Having a documented majority in a vote appears to make sense, and having one of 28 members able to veto something, just because they themselves don’t agree with it, feels exactly like something that contravenes actual “democracy”. When looking at the actual voting history, the UK has only voted against a tiny percentage of legislations so it’s not as if we’re a downtrodden member state who has had no say.
Your missing the power imbalances between each country, also read the bit about the varying alliances such as the Franco-German, Uk-Scandanavian and the east Europeans, all these countries have inalienable rights built into their national political systems. Consequently the EU creates multiple conflicts of interests. Its not working, needs reform, Brexit may just give the EU the wake up call it needs.
Read this. Explains what I'm talking about.

'The Brexit debate does not concern only the future of the UK in the EU. It
raises deeper questions, on the one hand about a possible disintegration of the
EU and on the other about the relationship between the eurozone and the EU as
a whole. Whatever the decision of UK citizens in June 2016, whether to leave or
to remain in the EU, the integration process will face an uncertain future. Brexit
may stimulate pressure to leave in other member states; or it may act as an incentive
to reform the EU and EMU. If the UK chooses to remain in the EU, again
either scenario could ensue: the ‘British story’ is just one manifestation among 28
of the politicization of European integration under strong pressure from domestic
politics. Which scenario comes into being will decide the theoretical question. A
re-launch of the EU will vindicate neo-functionalist theory, which assumes that
crisis brings necessarily rationalization and reform of the agenda. Disintegration
will mean precisely the opposite. One thing is certain: the EU will not escape
more differentiation in the future'.
 

Liquid101

Distinguished Member
A similar question for Remainers, what would you do if we left with no deal?
There isn't much I can do.

I will probably be a bit more careful with spending. Make sure we have plenty of cash in reserve, but also throw money at the mortgage while the rates are still low.

I work in a field that will probably be fine. In fact, it's possible that we'll even benefit from the chaos. Doesn't mean I welcome it though.

My main fear of no deal is not the direct impact, it's the perceived negativity of it, and the idea that everything will become the fault of No Deal. A self fulfilling prophecy. I'll almost certainly spend less and save more - if everybody does this the economy will start to suffer.

If it’s no deal followed by significant negative consequences, I’m pretty sure we’ll see a lot of civil disobedience. Probably instigated by young people who are thoroughly sick of what they see as the combined effects of Tory austerity, Brexit and the failure to deal with climate change.

When you poop on a whole generation, don’t be surprised when they kick you in the face.
This is a serious risk for the Tories now. If the demographics for the leave vote are accurate, it's going to bite them hard in the next 10-20 years. If there is any negative impact from Brexit - even if it's just a perceived negative impact, the fault will be entirely theirs, and you'll have opposition parties reminding everybody at every opportunity.

Boris might turn out to be the last Tory Prime Minister for generations.

Maybe we'll even see a liberal resurgence?
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
We've had a General Election since those stats.
We have.

And you constantly posted in the past that as we voted for remain EU parties we must want to remain. In 2017 the vote was over 80% for leave parties. By your own argument we must want to leave.

Want links to all that?
 

Liquid101

Distinguished Member
We have.

And you constantly posted in the past that as we voted for remain EU parties we must want to remain. In 2017 the vote was over 80% for leave parties. By your own argument we must want to leave.

Want links to all that?
I many ways I sincerely hope we don't have another referendum which ends up in remain.

It'll take me weeks to trawl back through this thread and quote every one of your posts. :laugh::D
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
I many ways I sincerely hope we don't have another referendum which ends up in remain.

It'll take me weeks to trawl back through this thread and quote every one of your posts. :laugh::D
I wouldn't worry. No chance of it. :laugh::D
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
Afraid not, I am already at my max donations this FY. Happy to continue the debate once you've dug up the links though.
Aah, that's a shame, I thought you'd be happy to benefit charities. Especially after you posted how you were at pains to point out how you were alright after the brexit vote so I assumed you'd be fine with it.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
Rasczak:


I have a modest portfolio of (wholly owned, non-mortgaged) properties in the Southampton-Winchester-Chichester triangle that I am keen to expand.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Aah, that's a shame, I thought you'd be happy to benefit charities. Especially after you posted how you were at pains to point out how you were alright after the brexit vote so I assumed you'd be fine with it.
More than happy to benefit charities when/where appropriate. And yes, like many who are paid/partially paid is US$, I have benefitted from the collapse in Sterling. Doesn't mean I don't oppose Brexit though.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Rasczak:


I have a modest portfolio of (wholly owned, non-mortgaged) properties in the Southampton-Winchester-Chichester triangle that I am keen to expand.
Not sure what that has to do with Brexit?

Are you struggling to find the (relevant) links you offered on the 2017 election?
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
More than happy to benefit charities when/where appropriate. And yes, like many who are paid/partially paid is US$, I have benefitted from the collapse in Sterling. Doesn't mean I don't oppose Brexit though.
I'm well aware of your views on brexit.

So again, I will post your previous views, which are that we must want to remain in the EU based solely on the electorate previously voting for remain parties, you then make a donation to charity as I found the posts, and everyone wins. Again, deal?

Not sure what that has to do with Brexit?

Are you struggling to find the (relevant) links you offered on the 2017 election?
Nope. You have previously posted as to how you were doing fine. Immediately after the brexit vote you pointed out how regardless of the vote you were fine. In fact you've made numerous posts of your property ownership. So you aren't short of a few bob.

So I post the links that you said we must be in favour of remain as we previously always voted for remain parties, you make a donation to charity.

Again, deal?
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
I'm well aware of your views on brexit.

So again, I will post your previous views, which are that we must want to remain in the EU based solely on the electorate previously voting for remain parties, you then make a donation to charity as I found the posts, and everyone wins. Again, deal?


Nope. You have previously posted as to how you were doing fine. Immediately after the brexit vote you pointed out how regardless of the vote you were fine. In fact you've made numerous posts of your property ownership. So you aren't short of a few bob.

So I post the links that you said we must be in favour of remain as we previously always voted for remain parties, you make a donation to charity.

Again, deal?
You offered to share links to all of their own previous posts in the first place (not sure they really need to see their own posts) but you’re now obsessed with them giving money to charity, if you post links to them.

Seems a bit of a random demand, couldn’t you just ask them to do a sponsored walk or something instead?
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
You offered to share links to all of their own previous posts in the first place (not sure they really need to see their own posts) but you’re now obsessed with them giving money to charity, if you post links to them.

Seems a bit of a random demand, couldn’t you just ask them to do a sponsored walk or something instead?
I am happy to share links to what people have previously said.

For my time in searching for the posts and posting there is a nominal donation to charity.

If I am 100% wrong about someone and they never said it and I can't provide such links I will make the donations to charity.

Fair? Charity wins and all I am doing is saying what people have said previously anyway.
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
I see this thread has gone through the 35K posts milestone. In the olden days there was a 1K post limit per thread, so this would now be 'keeping up with the latest brexit news - part 36'. I wonder what the ratio of new/interesting comments is in that lot :)
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
I wasn't aware this thread was meant to be "fun."

To make amends:

 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
I am happy to share links to what people have previously said.

For my time in searching for the posts and posting there is a nominal donation to charity.

If I am 100% wrong about someone and they never said it and I can't provide such links I will make the donations to charity.

Fair? Charity wins and all I am doing is saying what people have said previously anyway.
I get that donating to charity is a worthwhile action, just not sure where the requirement came from, just for you to share links to previous posts.
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
I get that donating to charity is a worthwhile action, just not sure where the requirement came from, just for you to share links to previous posts.
Posting what people have said requires a certain amount of time to search, post etc. So for that time there's a small amount to charity to make it worthwhile.

So I say, Rasczak has, for years said we must be in favour of being in the EU as we voted that way.

In 2017 when over 80% voted for parties for leaving the EU then we must be in favour of leaving.

I will put up his previous posts from pre 2017, where he said that we must be in favour of remain as we voted that way, and how people voted is proof of intention, he says fair one, and makes a donation. If I can't provide that proof I pay.

Either way the charity wins and all based on what people have said anyway.
 

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