KDS-55A2000 finally developing colour blob?

[AndyCob]

Well had this set for a couple of years now without any issues but a week or two ago noticed that skin tones seemed to have gone very orange. I thought it was just a setting at first until I realised there seems to be a band down the left side across the bottom and up the right side where things are still normal and skin is skin coloured (pink) while in the middle and middle top everyone looks like they just went out and got a bad orange spray on tan.

Funny thing is this seems to have very little or no impact on any other colours, put up a landscape or even just a white screen and everything looks more or less perfect.

What are peoples experiences with colour issue (green blob, or more sepia blob it seems in my case) developing after a couple of years vs out of the box?

Anyone had any success with repairing these faults (I have another year of warranty left, as I got 3 years free) but am I likely to get something even worse back? I assume if they do anything it will be the standard optical block replacement, I tried a spare bulb and things were exactly the same.

Any chance this is something a good clean would fix?

Any repair of course assumes I can get an engineer to admit something is wrong as the effect is subtle until you really look at it for awhile, it looks like the screen is just setup wrong until you notice someone with a bright orange face has normal pink hands in the bottom of the picture which become orange as they are raised. I have seen a person walk across shot and go from pink to orange to pink on some things, all BBC progs seem the worst affected but on some there hardly seems to be a difference, lighting differences?

Jonathan Ross on Friday was very weird because the effect seemed to change dramtically with the different shots/cameras, as a wide shot of the guesst locked pink but the closeup looked like a dodgy taning accident again.

Any thoughts?

 

[Harry Lime]

I have the 50A2000 that I've had a little over 2 years, and I've the same problem. I have the warranty from where I bought it and they are coming out on Tuesday to replace the optical block. I'll let you know if it is a success or not. I'm a little worried about them replacing it, but as it is now, it's absolute rubbish watching it, so what can it hurt?

Really disappointed in this Sony set. You would think by now they could get it together and make a television that actually doesn't have a defect. (BTW, this is my third Sony television, and all 3 have gone tits up after a short time).

 

[deltafx]

I have the 50A2000 that I've had a little over 2 years, and I've the same problem. I have the warranty from where I bought it and they are coming out on Tuesday to replace the optical block. I'll let you know if it is a success or not. I'm a little worried about them replacing it, but as it is now, it's absolute rubbish watching it, so what can it hurt?

Really disappointed in this Sony set. You would think by now they could get it together and make a television that actually doesn't have a defect. (BTW, this is my third Sony television, and all 3 have gone tits up after a short time).

are they going to replace optical block at your home .??did you buy from john lewis.?

 

[Harry Lime]

Little man just left, and unfortunately this block is worse than the original. He's going to order another one and see if it's any better.

Deltafx, the repair was done in home and only took about 30 minutes. Not being back in the UK (live in States now) I bought from Best Buy and their repair company is handling it (called Geek Squad here).

Best of luck to all of you with the problems. I'll let you know if the new block works out.

 

[AndyCob]

Cheers for the replys, not particulalry inspiring if a replacement block is worse, did anyone ever get any actuall confirmation on the cause of this beyond the generally suspected/speculated overheating/heat damage to the optical block?

I think I will have to give the warranty a go and see what the response is, what concerns me is the usual UK setup is man comes out has a look says we need to take it away to fix, a week later some guys bundle it into the back of a van, another two weeks later get a call saying need to order parts, 4-6 weeks later told parts arrived, 2 weeks later told repaired, a week later it is returned problem unfixed and lots of new problems, damage, scratches etc.

Cynical aren't I.

Oh well wonder what my chances will be of saying order the parts and come back and fix it on site.

 

[alsina]

Cheers for the replys, not particulalry inspiring if a replacement block is worse, did anyone ever get any actuall confirmation on the cause of this beyond the generally suspected/speculated overheating/heat damage to the optical block?

I think I will have to give the warranty a go and see what the response is, what concerns me is the usual UK setup is man comes out has a look says we need to take it away to fix, a week later some guys bundle it into the back of a van, another two weeks later get a call saying need to order parts, 4-6 weeks later told parts arrived, 2 weeks later told repaired, a week later it is returned problem unfixed and lots of new problems, damage, scratches etc.

Cynical aren't I.

Oh well wonder what my chances will be of saying order the parts and come back and fix it on site.

Depends on who the warranty is with?

 

[tiresias]

Let us know how you get on AndyCob.

My 55A2000 has developed a marked green blob after 20 months. I have the JL 5 year warranty but I'm scared to invoke it at this stage for fear of being without my set for 2 months and having it returned no better.

I posted on here a few weeks ago about this and NicolasB reported much improved black levels after an optical block change but said, I think, that they faded again after a while.

I have noticed that my blob fades quite a bit after the set has been for a long time. And I mean a LONG time, like 2 hours or so so I've decided to wait until it's deteriorated further before considering warranty invocation...unless, of course, you report back a particularly good experience

Good luck!

 

[NicolasB]

I posted on here a few weeks ago about this and NicolasB reported much improved black levels after an optical block change but said, I think, that they faded again after a while.

Yup.

I have noticed that my blob fades quite a bit after the set has been for a long time. And I mean a LONG time, like 2 hours or so

Do you normally watch with Power Save mode on (i.e. the bulb in dim mode)? If so, try switching it to full power (Power Save "off") when you first switch on - you may find that gets rid of it a lot sooner.

A new bulb might help too.

 

[AndyCob]

I'm doing the same thing myself hovering do I call or not for fear of being without it and getting it back just as bad with assorted damage/marks scrathes etc as I don't have the box anymore.

Oh well, guess I will take the plunge sooner or later. I actually have a pdf of the service manual so had a look at the procedure for changing the optical block (considering dismantling myself for a clean, as this has been reported to fix some issues) but wouldn't you know on this model its burried right in the guts so you have to remove virtually everything to get to it and I'm not taking the chance on that while it's still in warranty.

 

[reidy73]

just to let everyone know about my sony 55a2000, its 20months old and it developed the dreaded green blobs!, so i called JL under there 5year warranty(2 weeks ago), they sent guys from glasgow who took 1 look at the tv and said it needs a new optical block, then took it away...got a call on friday from repair agents in glasgow to say JL wont be fixing tv ! JL will call tomorrow to let me know whats happening, only things is i only paid £979 for the sony and i fear they will just give me my money back, also the guys from glasgow are bringing the tv back tomorrow afternoon...does anyone know if i will be lucky enough to keep the tv and JL give me my money back...think its just wishful thinking!!!!...im using a samsung ps-42a457 at the mo but its not in the same league on hd footage(no disrespect to the samsung)...forgot to mention the tv has 7350hours on the original lamp bulb..oops

 

[deltafx]

just to let everyone know about my sony 55a2000, its 20months old and it developed the dreaded green blobs!, so i called JL under there 5year warranty(2 weeks ago), they sent guys from glasgow who took 1 look at the tv and said it needs a new optical block, then took it away...got a call on friday from repair agents in glasgow to say JL wont be fixing tv ! JL will call tomorrow to let me know whats happening, only things is i only paid £979 for the sony and i fear they will just give me my money back, also the guys from glasgow are bringing the tv back tomorrow afternoon...does anyone know if i will be lucky enough to keep the tv and JL give me my money back...think its just wishful thinking!!!!...im using a samsung ps-42a457 at the mo but its not in the same league on hd footage(no disrespect to the samsung)...forgot to mention the tv has 7350hours on the original lamp bulb..oops

please let us know what john lewis have to say ..

 

[AndyCob]

Well I may be in more trouble than I thought as my warranty may actually have expired, so will have to look at getting a block and fitting it myself (eek), service manual doesn't make it look difficult but there is a fair bit of disassembly involved.

Well it's as bad as I thought no warranty after all, and all the parts are listed as discontinued on sony's 'official' parts suppliers site, waiting on an email response to see if they can get me an optical block.

Anyone know where these could be got from.

I wonder if this is why JL won't do the repair, called sony 'we are not aware of any issue with this set' it's only on their own US website.

 

[reidy73]

tv was delivered back today and the engineer said it would have cost £500 for a new optical block plus vat and labour ..i can see why JL didnt want to fix it, anyway phoned JL and they said i can have a replacement, go ahead and look on the website and call us back with the tv you want the girl said(couldnt stop laughing as theres not a tv on there that could compete with a sony 55" 1080ptv unless it was 55x45000 @ £4850!!!), supervisor is gonna call me back ater 1pm tomorrow.
i have done as nicolasb said and turned off powersaving mode and this helps, quite happy to watch tv until JL resolve

 

[AndyCob]

reidy had an idea, Sony in the US admitted to this problem and extended the warranty on the optical block to 3 years including free replacement and fitting, do you want to join me in reporting this issue to bbc watchdog. After all if they admit the fault in the US why not the UK, maybe with a littel help from them we might see a free repair?

Thought of doing it myself but more the merrier and they might take more notice.

 

[tiresias]

Interesting stuff.

I haven't looked at the small print of the JL warranty but I would imagine that it includes an option for them to offer a replacement if a set is 'uneconomical' to repair. That raises the interesting question of what a reasonable replacement might be - I would have thought 55" and 1080p would be the starting point.

Given that the SXRD is no longer available, I would have thought you could raise similarly interesting arguments over any phrase such as "a replacement of similar value" - "value" doesn't necessarily equate to "cash value" (unless it says it does). Does anyone know what the JL warranty actually says?

To NicolasB, yes I do run mine on powersave. Thanks for the suggestion; I'll try it with it off

 

[reidy73]

andy that sounds a good idea, there must b more of us with the same problem after you read about the thousands of problems with this and the other size sxrds not just in britain but also north america, sony know its a major fault with this tv, shame because the picture quality is amazing, problem is JL are gonna offer me an inferior tv with a screen size of 50" or less, not that its JL`s fault.
gonna wait till tomorrow to hear what they say, then i can take it further, hopefully other forum users follow suit

 

[alsina]

Interesting stuff.

I haven't looked at the small print of the JL warranty but I would imagine that it includes an option for them to offer a replacement if a set is 'uneconomical' to repair. That raises the interesting question of what a reasonable replacement might be - I would have thought 55" and 1080p would be the starting point.

Given that the SXRD is no longer available, I would have thought you could raise similarly interesting arguments over any phrase such as "a replacement of similar value" - "value" doesn't necessarily equate to "cash value" (unless it says it does). Does anyone know what the JL warranty actually says?

To NicolasB, yes I do run mine on powersave. Thanks for the suggestion; I'll try it with it off

Yes it says:

"If we decide your product cannot be repaired, or is uneconomical to repair, we'll replace it with the same model. If it's no longer available, we'll discuss an alternative settlement with you."

 

[AndyCob]

Yep they have the legal option to offer a suitable replacment if a repair is not feasible that is also in the sales of goods act.

Well I have emailed Sony, my retailer and watchdog so now sitting back and awaiting replies to see if there is any response on this issue.

Done what the Citizens Advice stuff on the Sale of goods says you have to ask the retailer to fix, refund exchange etc and give them the chance on that. If I get no joy I will certainly go as far filing a small claims action assuming Which legal advice says to do so. Will keep you posted on developments.

Feel free to email watchdog as well anyone if there are more emails than just mine I would have thought it will up the chances that something might happen.

 

[scooby do]

Anyone got a picture of their blob?

 

[tiresias]

Can I suggest a structured approach to this?

For people with a JL (or other) warranty, that is likely to be by far the most effective route to go down.

Yes it says:

"If we decide your product cannot be repaired, or is uneconomical to repair, we'll replace it with the same model. If it's no longer available, we'll discuss an alternative settlement with you."

It is difficult to construe the true legal effect of the above phrase: Is the fact that the product cannot be repaired to be established on an objective basis or at JL's discretion? Similarly, is the phrase "...or is uneconomical to repair" governed by the phrase "If we decide..."? What exactly does "we'll discuss an alternative settlement with you" mean?

On the last question, it is unlikely that that phrase means that JL's obligation under the warranty, in circumstances where the product cannot, or is uneconomical to be repaired (however established) would be discharged simply by holding discussions, and no more. Arguably, the obligations should be construed by looking at the purpose of the warranty as a whole - ie to provide the buyer with a properly working 55A2000 for a period of 5 years. This is supported by the fact that the replacement option is to be with one "of the same model" and not, for example,with one of similar value.

The starting point, then, is that "the alternative settlement" should be one which achieves an outcome as close as possible to that of the buyer having a properly working 55A2000 for the whole of the warranty period. That can best be achieved, if repair or replacement with the same model is not available, either by replacement with a set of similar screen size and quality or by a cash settlement which allows the buyer to purchase such a set on the open market today.

Of course, the difficulty in this case that there are no alternative displays of a similar quality to the 55A2000 to be had for anything less than much more than the original set cost. But, arguably, the risk of that eventuality is one which should be born by JL under the warranty - there is no remedy for a bad bargain. Another useful point to remember is that ambiguous terms in contracts (the warranty is a contract) are normally construed contra proferentem ie the least favourable construction as against the person putting forward the instrument (ie JL).

If I were negotiating with JL I would start by saying "OK, what can you offer me with SXRD technology, with a 55" screen and 1080p resolution?". Clearly, the SXRD technology (which has certain characteristics superior to plasma/lcd) requirement will have to fall away (unless those JVC HD-ILA sets (sans fingerprint) are still available). Having made that concession, I would not expect to expect to compromise on either screen size or resolution. And I would be ready with the arguments as to why SXRD is better than an old-style rear-pro in order to be ready to fend off the offer of a cash settlement to the value of some Samsumg rear-pro from Costco or wherever.

A claim under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (SOGA) also raises some tricky issues. The starting point is establishing that the display was not in conformity with the terms of the contract (ie, was not, for instance, of satisfactory quality) at the date of delivery. There is a (rebuttable) presumption that a fault that develops within six months of that date is evidence of a fault on that date. This presumption was introduced, along with the new remedies under SOGA, by the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002. You can read these HERE

Obviously, a green blob after 20 months is far less probative of original unsatisfactory quality but it may be possible to satisfy a district judge with sufficient evidence (from the US?) that this is a known problem.

Having established breach of contract, the next issue is remedy. The buyer is rentitled to insist on repair or replacement unless that it impossible or disproportionate (in terms of cost to the seller) in comparison with the remedies of a reduction in price or rescission (section 48B(3) SOGA). Rescission is basically undoing the contract so you give back the set and get your purchase money back (less a reduction for the use you've had of the set).

Clearly, any seller could seek to rely on the disproportionate cost argument in the case of a 55A2000 to avoid repair or replacement. It may be possible to argue that repair or replacement would not be disproportionate to rescission/reduction in price because of "the significant inconvenience to the buyer" that would result (see section 48B(4)(c) SOGA) ie, being unable to purchase a replacement set of similar quality at a similar price in today's market - see also section 48B(5). However, you would need to lead cogent evidence of the fact in any small claims hearing and I think it might be a tricky argument to get home on.

Anyway, I hope the above is of interest to anyone contemplating an argument either under a warranty or under SOGA (although, of course, you should not rely upon it in any way but seek your own independent legal advice).

Just remember also that you can be firm in negotiations without being confrontational - you get more flies with honey than with vinegar

Good luck

 

[reidy73]

Update...JL offered me a £979 refund and to uplift tv!! no chance, wife spoke to them and demanded another 55" after quoting there warranty which does not mention refund.
after speaking to a manager they are gonna uplift tv on thursday and give us a loan set and get the tv fixed after all, they must have realisied it was going to cost a lot more to offer "an alternative settlement" (not a refund). its a different company coming on thurs from the original one who took it away...think this is a good result and if the tv comes back with a hint of green, they will hear me(or the wrath of my good lady)

 

[AndyCob]

Reidy sounds like some progress, keep us posted, if I get no joy trying to get it fixed for free my backup is to source a replacement optical block and fit it myself.

 

[tiresias]

after speaking to a manager they are gonna uplift tv on thursday and give us a loan set and get the tv fixed after all, they must have realisied it was going to cost a lot more to offer "an alternative settlement" (not a refund).

Sounds very promising...and sensible

 

[reidy73]

Andy i will keep you updated and try and get some info and prices of a new optical block from the repair guys.
Tiresias -i used your structured approach on the phone for at least 30mins, so thanks for all your input, it really helped

 

[AndyCob]

Well got an some responses from Sony, basicly saying the US optical block issue is not affecting UK sets, so no joy from just asking for a free fix, will have to have a word with my Which legal advice see what they think about a small claims court case.