Question Jvc x90 repair or replace?

hificork

Active Member
My jvc x90 needs a new lamp and ballast board costing approx £850. I am looking to repair or replace. Where I live and with limited (Covid) travel it’s nearly impossible to get demo’s to see how much improvements I get by replacing my x90. My room has off white walls and ceiling and complete blackout is not possible. Regardless I have been very happy with my x90. Any advice on replace or repair? And if replace what are recommendations.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Well if you don't get it repaired it's not worth much at all, get it repaired and it should be worth well over £1k.

The X90 was top of the range and a new X7900 will cost £4k or N5 £6.5k.


If your room is not a batcave getting the top spec JVC's is perhaps a bit of a waste as you won't ever reach their potential maximum performance.

If you are happy with it I would get it repaired and keep it a few more years.
 

tegonik

Active Member
The X90 is a top class projector even in these days. My advice is to repair it, it is worth it.
On the other hand if you decide to replace it and if you don't want to go at high cost projector (N5), the Epson TW9400 it is overall a good choice.
 
The X3-X7-X9-X30-X70-X90 all uses the Rubicon ballast that have a very high fail rate, the lamp blower is way to small, resulting in fairly short lamp life, and light output is hopeless insufficient to take advantage of the double iris, meaning on a 110" screen you will basically have the same calibrated contrast on a X30 and a X90, motion/ update frequence is quite poor compared to later generations as well, for 850£ you can find a low hour used X500 that will outperform the X90 on all parameters, sales value on the X90 working or not is fairly reduced as most know about the lamps and ballast board problems on these specifik models, ill guess you could get around 100£ for it as is, if you sell it to someone who can fix it, or use it as a spare part machine.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
@hificork did you get the X90 new and how many hours has it done, is it on the original bulb.

Just wondering as strids has pointed out the failure rate on the X3/X90 ranges and if yours has had any issues over the years.
 

hificork

Active Member
I have had it from new and done 2400 hours on the original lamp. Never any problem until last week when the left and right light turned red and the middle one flashing orange.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Looks like you did relatively well then with your sample. :thumbsup:
 

tegonik

Active Member
I have had it from new and done 2400 hours on the original lamp. Never any problem until last week when the left and right light turned red and the middle one flashing orange.
Are you sure is not only the lamp the problem?
 

hificork

Active Member
btw I have to add that after switching the power off all together and let it rest for an hour it’s working fine again. I expect the fault to return hence I am considering what to do.
 
Its not uncommon that its on off for a while , like the ballast gets unstable, my trouble shooting on these ballast boards all came down to the communication board on the ballast, same on 3 different ballast boards. 2500 hours will also demand a heavy cleaning inside the projector, meaning taking the lamp engine apart cleaning all the filters and optical elements.
Whats your room condition? screen size and type?
 

tegonik

Active Member
Your ballast unit at the moment is this

20200815-164416.jpg



If you want to find a repair center and repair it the most common problem is this chip (i have fix dozens). You find that chip (M51995AFP) and you changed it

20200815-164405.jpg



On the other hand you can do this. If you fix your projector to a JVC point say to them with your responsibility to put you the newer ballast of X35 and above (it fails too, not so often). This is the part and its cheaper.

20200815-164425.jpg



This ballast is USHIO ballast and will work just fine with your projector even with your old lamp.

20200815-164522.jpg


But in order to avoid flickering and why not to earn some light you will put the USHIO lamp from X500. You can find it as a spare bulb only and you can put it on your old housing, or buy it as a housing for X500 and swap your cable and connector from your old lamp.

The lamp is this
Amazon product

If you do that, you will not fix only your projector but you are going to upgrade it too. Keep in mind that the USHIO lamp is very tough lamp, you will not have overheating problems even with your default cooling system.

Another solution is to find the original ballast of the HD1-HD100 (there is no stock i think, so you have to look on ebay). Its a beast and is working on your projector perfectly with your original lamp (same 200W).
 

hificork

Active Member
Its not uncommon that its on off for a while , like the ballast gets unstable, my trouble shooting on these ballast boards all came down to the communication board on the ballast, same on 3 different ballast boards. 2500 hours will also demand a heavy cleaning inside the projector, meaning taking the lamp engine apart cleaning all the filters and optical elements.
Whats your room condition? screen size and type?
I have a fixed screen projecta home screen delux 128x216cm hd progressive.
 

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Your ballast unit at the moment is this

20200815-164416.jpg



If you want to find a repair center and repair it the most common problem is this chip (i have fix dozens). You find that chip (M51995AFP) and you changed it

20200815-164405.jpg



On the other hand you can do this. If you fix your projector to a JVC point say to them with your responsibility to put you the newer ballast of X35 and above (it fails too, not so often). This is the part and its cheaper.

20200815-164425.jpg



This ballast is USHIO ballast and will work just fine with your projector even with your old lamp.

20200815-164522.jpg


But in order to avoid flickering and why not to earn some light you will put the USHIO lamp from X500. You can find it as a spare bulb only and you can put it on your old housing, or buy it as a housing for X500 and swap your cable and connector from your old lamp.

The lamp is this
Amazon product

If you do that, you will not fix only your projector but you are going to upgrade it too. Keep in mind that the USHIO lamp is very tough lamp, you will not have overheating problems even with your default cooling system.

Another solution is to find the original ballast of the HD1-HD100 (there is no stock i think, so you have to look on ebay). Its a beast and is working on your projector perfectly with your original lamp (same 200W).

I did put a X500 ballast and lamp in a X3, it would not start up, if i recall right it did the initial startup and then shut down, putting a new Rubicon ballast and it worked perfect, any idea why that is?
Regarding the USHIO lamp ull still prefer the bigger lamp blower, JVC have quite a lot of drift during heatup and operation, and from a calibration standpoint they should all run in high lamp mode, high altitude mode, as they become significantly more stable. The X3 to X90 in low lamp mode the gamma continues drifting around even after 5 hours of operation, unless you have a perfectly temperature controled room.
 
I have a fixed screen projecta home screen delux 128x216cm hd progressive.
You will likely not see much difference between a X3 and a X90 in that setup, ill guess you might get 30000:1 contrast calibrated to around 13fl with the X90 and a X3 will be around 25000:1, even in a perfect room those nr wont change the experience much.
A X500 might come in around 50000:1 in the same setup, most of the X500 had higher native contrast without use of iris. The X5000/ X5500/X5900 dont work for that setup, they cant close the iris enough to calibrate on that screen, so ull ende up with 22fl or something like that, so for that generation ull need to step up to the 7000 series, and not impossible to get close to 100000:1 on off contrast with a good sample.
 

tegonik

Active Member
I did put a X500 ballast and lamp in a X3, it would not start up, if i recall right it did the initial startup and then shut down, putting a new Rubicon ballast and it worked perfect, any idea why that is?
Regarding the USHIO lamp ull still prefer the bigger lamp blower, JVC have quite a lot of drift during heatup and operation, and from a calibration standpoint they should all run in high lamp mode, high altitude mode, as they become significantly more stable. The X3 to X90 in low lamp mode the gamma continues drifting around even after 5 hours of operation, unless you have a perfectly temperature controled room.

It should be working, have the same pin outs, what is the error it gives?Can you read the log file with serial cable?This gamma drift concerning all the old reflective panels, but is not a problem, the drift is minimum on old JVCs. Sony goes almost 1 unit down. Are you sure about the X90-70?I never measured such a noticeable drift on that model on low lamp mode.
 
It should be working, have the same pin outs, what is the error it gives?Can you read the log file with serial cable?This gamma drift concerning all the old reflective panels, but is not a problem, the drift is minimum on old JVCs. Sony goes almost 1 unit down. Are you sure about the X90-70?I never measured such a noticeable drift on that model on low lamp mode.
i have a X3, X7 X500 X5900 in my HT right now and the X3-X7 takes almost 1 hour to hit decent calibration tolerances, the X5900 30 min is fine, however if set and calibrated in high altitude mode they are much faster to settel, and maintain fairly stable.
The SONY VPL VW270 ES is basically spot on calibration target from cold.
eb5038ee-e398-4a45-8bba-f6b3e6a235e0.jpg
c2c83533-4616-4746-8d2a-3c698f698734.jpg
f6a188ca-3418-4d3e-a98f-16d1c0a2680a.jpg
 

tegonik

Active Member
Sorry i can not understand these diagrams (who is who and what am i seeing?).
For X3-X7 i have no comment, the X70-X90 have totally different behavior on the calibration, thats why i ask you if you are sure for these models.
Personally i have gave up on X3-X7 (you must be very patient guy, i am not) , never succeed good results, after hours calibration everything was ok on diagrams but the picture was unwatchable, for sure they have big problem in between IRE ( 10 and 20 IRE ok, 13, 17, 19 for example are mess up if you play with the detailed gamma slider). And big problem on gamma behavior on these models.
On the X90-70 is much easier to calibrate it and more stable (this is the big improve from X7-X9). How many hours has your sony?Any on/off contrast lost?I mean have you see any raise on black level?
 
Sorry i can not understand these diagrams (who is who and what am i seeing?).
For X3-X7 i have no comment, the X70-X90 have totally different behavior on the calibration, thats why i ask you if you are sure for these models.
Personally i have gave up on X3-X7 (you must be very patient guy, i am not) , never succeed good results, after hours calibration everything was ok on diagrams but the picture was unwatchable, for sure they have big problem in between IRE ( 10 and 20 IRE ok, 13, 17, 19 for example are mess up if you play with the detailed gamma slider). And big problem on gamma behavior on these models.
On the X90-70 is much easier to calibrate it and more stable (this is the big improve from X7-X9). How many hours has your sony?Any on/off contrast lost?I mean have you see any raise on black level?
The SONY 270 have contrast around 10000:1 and have around 250 hours with no change.
The important thing with all JVC is to never touch the offset to calibrate grayscale, the X3-7-9 have some issues that the adjustment points on the multi point gamma correction dont line up, so u adjust 10% IRE and it moves 13% ire, or something like that, and that can be a real pain to work with, only took me 8 years to figure out how to calibrate those, yes the X30-70-90 have fixed that but otherwise they are basically the same.
The graphs above is gamma/ grayscale tracking, grayscale with gamma CIE 2000. unless you have a Klein K10A or alike always calibrate these JVC projectors measuring from the lens, so you get good acurate low level readings on the 1-2-3-4-5% ire otherwise its impossible to set it right, and if messing with the offset to balance grayscale you create ringing and funky behavior out of black, and true the hole range.
 

tegonik

Active Member
The SONY 270 have contrast around 10000:1 and have around 250 hours with no change.
The important thing with all JVC is to never touch the offset to calibrate grayscale, the X3-7-9 have some issues that the adjustment points on the multi point gamma correction dont line up, so u adjust 10% IRE and it moves 13% ire, or something like that, and that can be a real pain to work with, only took me 8 years to figure out how to calibrate those, yes the X30-70-90 have fixed that but otherwise they are basically the same.
The graphs above is gamma/ grayscale tracking, grayscale with gamma CIE 2000. unless you have a Klein K10A or alike always calibrate these JVC projectors measuring from the lens, so you get good acurate low level readings on the 1-2-3-4-5% ire otherwise its impossible to set it right, and if messing with the offset to balance grayscale you create ringing and funky behavior out of black, and true the hole range.

You have a strong knowledge of what you say. I am enjoy this conversation, i like so much to talk with people they know exactly what they are saying, thank you.
Also i am totally agree with you in every word you said, it took me years too, but right know, i am not touching X3-X7 no way. I have wasted my time in the past, i have calibrated a dozens of them, no more! 0-5 ire?is this a joke?No way to calibrate those ires on this series, at least for me. Keep your eyes on the sony contrast (and gamma) after the 400-500 hours. If you ever need any technical help/advise on those JVCs you have, just give me a pm.
 
You have a strong knowledge of what you say. I am enjoy this conversation, i like so much to talk with people they know exactly what they are saying, thank you.
Also i am totally agree with you in every word you said, it took me years too, but right know, i am not touching X3-X7 no way. I have wasted my time in the past, i have calibrated a dozens of them, no more! 0-5 ire?is this a joke?No way to calibrate those ires on this series, at least for me. Keep your eyes on the sony contrast (and gamma) after the 400-500 hours. If you ever need any technical help/advise on those JVCs you have, just give me a pm.
The 0-5% ire is essential for the performance of the projector, the importance is to get the best compromise possible, and if you dont measure it you have no clue whats going on, on the X3-X30 and so, you cant adjust any points in between, but you can adjust the 5% ire, the offset sets your out of black, however never seen any of those where it should not be set to 0, and if changed its important to set RGB to the same, this is general also on the new N series, except they sometimes have to change all 3 offset up to 4 clicks to get it properly out of black and maximize contrast.
I sold the SONY so not tracking that one any more, i have heard that the 270 seems to hold contrast, have you had any 270/ 570 that has dropped in contrast?
However my point in this thread was that i dont think the X90 is worth fixing if you have to pay 850£ to have it done, fun to do for those who can do it, but as the X500 and forward got much better processors, and not as prone to failing, and better cooling, they are a better bet dealing with older models.
 

tegonik

Active Member
The 0-5% ire is essential for the performance of the projector, the importance is to get the best compromise possible, and if you dont measure it you have no clue whats going on, on the X3-X30 and so, you cant adjust any points in between, but you can adjust the 5% ire, the offset sets your out of black, however never seen any of those where it should not be set to 0, and if changed its important to set RGB to the same, this is general also on the new N series, except they sometimes have to change all 3 offset up to 4 clicks to get it properly out of black and maximize contrast.
I sold the SONY so not tracking that one any more, i have heard that the 270 seems to hold contrast, have you had any 270/ 570 that has dropped in contrast?
However my point in this thread was that i dont think the X90 is worth fixing if you have to pay 850£ to have it done, fun to do for those who can do it, but as the X500 and forward got much better processors, and not as prone to failing, and better cooling, they are a better bet dealing with older models.
850£ it's too much, the ballast it self costs ~250£. Yes i have seen a 270 lost the half of contrast at 500 hours and the gamma goes to 1.8, thats why i ask you in first place. The X90 its very good projector even if you compare it with the X500, i dont think the X500 is winning so easy. The black level of the X90 is unbeatable, but of course you right about the newer model, new design processor board, new controller, new ballast, e.t.c. If he had the X9, yes, i wouldn't suggest a fix.
 
850£ it's too much, the ballast it self costs ~250£. Yes i have seen a 270 lost the half of contrast at 500 hours and the gamma goes to 1.8, thats why i ask you in first place. The X90 its very good projector even if you compare it with the X500, i dont think the X500 is winning so easy. The black level of the X90 is unbeatable, but of course you right about the newer model, new design processor board, new controller, new ballast, e.t.c. If he had the X9, yes, i wouldn't suggest a fix.
the ballast cost 250 and the lamp around 300 so parts for 550£ 300£ for labor, that dont seem bad, not everybody is into diy, how much would you ask for a new original lamp and ballast, cleaning and testing of a old X90 with warranty?

What native contrast fully open iris shot trow do you get out of a X90, and a X3?
 

tegonik

Active Member
Χ3 around 20-25.000 and X90 around 40-50.000 if i remember correct. Lamp you can buy it after the service with 140£ if you want to save money. This job in our service (authorized JVC service) is cost around 750 euro (~700£). I am cleaning and testing every JVC i repair without even inform or charge the customer. You can not open and repair a projector without cleaning the optical unit, it's something standard.
 
Χ3 around 20-25.000 and X90 around 40-50.000 if i remember correct. Lamp you can buy it after the service with 140£ if you want to save money. This job in our service (authorized JVC service) is cost around 750 euro (~700£). I am cleaning and testing every JVC i repair without even inform or charge the customer. You can not open and repair a projector without cleaning the optical unit, it's something standard.
I have never seen a X3 with that high native contrast, usually around 15000:1 with fully open iris and short trow, to get get 25000:1 ill have co close down the iris to almost fully closed, wich have no relevanse to any setup, the X7 X30 i seen have had very identical native contrast, and since the X7-X70 X9-X90 all uses the same lamp engine the tolerances is not huge, the X500 normaly come out with a 25000:1 native contrast, same with N5-N7-NX9, how do you measure on off contrast on JVC?

So you charge 700£ for the same service in Greece, that seems fairly equal taking the location into concideration. Even if that includes shipping both ways im not sure many would want to sende a projector that far to save 150£ and the trouble involved with potential warranty.

Cool to have someone here representing JVC, from a autorised JVC repair center, would you be able to share some of the tolerances for various parameters on different JVC projectors? I would love to see the guidelines for on off contrast measurements and contrast uniformity, and how much it is allowed to be off spec.
 
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