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JVC HV-36P38, progressive Scan problem

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by jerkyboy, Dec 19, 2004.

  1. jerkyboy

    jerkyboy
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    I have had my JVC HV-36P38 for a few months, and its been great. I have just upgraded to a Progressive Scan DVD player, and every now and again (maybe twice during a film) I am getting a wierld horizontal line running accross the screen.

    I have tried a different DVD player, and tried Progreesive scan in both Pal and NTSC and it still does it.

    This line only happens for about 5-10 seconds, two or three times during a film. Has ayone experienced the same thing and is there a fix for it.

    Thanks for any help.
     
  2. Bonex

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    I'm sorry, I can't help you now, because I'm in the process of getting a 36P38 soon, but I would like to better understand what kind of problem that is. Is it a colored line or something like if the image is cut in two halves (like when on a pc game you don't use a "force vertical synch" option)? If it's the second, maybe there's something wrong with the p/s.
     
  3. jerkyboy

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    Its hard to explain, the line is about 1 cm wide and is a mix of whats on the screen. Its as if the screen is out of synch, but only on a very small part of it.

    It only does this during progressive scan, Apart from this small niggle the TV is a superb piece of kit. Dont let it put you off.

    The picture is not a huge amount better in Progressive Scan mode so its not a huge loss. Having said that I would like to cure it if its something that can be adjusted in the service menu.
     
  4. rtype

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    Hi, I've just received my 36P38

    and I have seen the same sort of issue that you have described when using component in from an xbox (ntsc). Have you come up with any fixes?

    I'm on the lookout for a PS DVD player so if there are particular models that don't cause this I'd love to know. (b4 I shell out) .

    At the moment It's not to big a deal, as it's only once every hour or so and interestingly enough if I stop and nothing is moving on screen it seems to disapear. (only to re-appear when I start moving.)

    any advice you can give would be appreciated.
     
  5. daddyorchips

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    Hey rtype, I get the same thing. I find that if I flick channels, i.e. down one to AV3 then back to AV4, the line disappears.
     
  6. Barzo

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    I too have this problem, on the 28P37 (which appears to be the 28" version of your TV). I do not have the line with PAL prog scan interestingly, only NTSC prog scan. I have tried e-mailing JVC on a few occassions, but have not really had a satisfactory response. It is clear that it is not source dependent, as I have now tried three different DVD players with three different chipsets, and the problem has recurred. I suspect it is a 'feature' of DIST programming, and one I can live with. I've not heard of any solution, beyond the one noted about changing channels (which I will have to try). The line, and the 'out of synch' picture disturbance above it seems to happen about every half hour in my experience (although sometimes the period is shorter).

    On a related note, as anyone else had a problem with 60HZ or NTSC signals through the RGB Scarts (Exts 1 &2)? On my TV, a 60hz or NTSC signal goes to composite on Ext 1, and does not display properly (mangled colours) on Ext 2? This is true of a 60Hz X-box signal, a pure NTSC signal, or a PAL60 transcoded NTSC signal. Once again, not a great hardship, but annoying. It has meant that I have had to connect my X-box and DVD through component (using my AV amp as the switcher), when I really would rather have connected the DVD player direct to Ext4 on the TV. JVC suggested it must be the partnering equipment, but I fail to see how this can be when they worked fine with my last TV (a 28" Panasonic) and with an existing 21" JVC 4:3 set!
     
  7. peahead

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    I have the 32"version and also get that line but only when useing my xbox which is set to ntsc progressive scan but not all the time.my dvdplayer is a jvc na77sl and it does not happen when viewing dvds in pal or ntsc progressive scan so it must be something to do with the xbox. :hiya:
     
  8. Barzo

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    I thought all JVC players did not do a true NTSC signal? I'm sure I've read in manuals that they transcode everything to PAL60. Do you notice any jerking with your NTSC through prog scan?

    My X-box is interlace (don't have it chipped) through component (so presents no problems), but I do have the scan line problem with NTSC prog scan from DVD players. This has happened with (a) Pioneer 575, (b) Toshiba 340e and (c) Panasonic S97 DVD players, all of which produce a 'pure' NTSC prog scan signal.
     
  9. Bonex

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    Damn! My 36P38 is about to arrive and now it seems that more people are experiencing the same problem.
    Only with ntsc p/s? Gosh, 90% of my dvd's are R1's... Too bad.
    I'm reading some similar posts in an italian forum too (I'm from Italy).
    Maybe the DIST is a bit buggy when the input is 480p?

    This tv is out from more than a year, and this comes out only now?
     
  10. daddyorchips

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    Bonex,

    It's really no big deal mate, and to be honest it took me a few weeks to even notice it. I'm running a chipped xbox in PS through the component connectors, and occasionally it'll do this. Sometimes it won't happen at all though, and I can be playing for several hours until I switch off without a single "warped" line in sight :p

    >Barzo, JVC must be talking crap. I get EXACTLY the same issue with my tv - if I try and connect ANYTHING via scart and run in 60hz mode, rgb will switch to composite. This happens with both my gamecube and ps2, so I have to run one via s-video and the other I'm considering picking up a component cable for. Very annoying!
     
  11. johnvigna

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    It's the same problem that happens to me (36p38sue)
    I post this pics that show the problem whit my xbox ntsc forced
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. andyboy

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    Barzo (or anyone else who can help me)

    Couple of things I hope you can help with mate

    I took delivery of my HV28P37SJE and although the outer case doesn't look like the pictures above, I'm pretty sure all will be the same inside.

    I have tested films via component video from my Pioneer DV575 set to prog scan and a couple of them Star Wars EP1 & 2 seem to look a bit 'dirty' it might just be me but if I look closely at the screen it looks like little (and I mean little !!) black dots 'over' the picture itself - I can't figure out why but I must say I didn't notice it when I tested LOTR - Fellowship.

    Also do you have a PS2 ? I was on Pro Evo 4 last night for the first time since I got my 28P37 and it looks a bit, well crap to be honest, when the player launche the ball forward, the pixels seem to tear and the graphics in general look rough and unfinished. The picture doesn't look as good as it did on my Philips 28PW6517 and I wondered if you knew what might be causing it.

    Also what are the 'optimal' picture settings for picture quality when using component for DVD and scart for XBOX / PS2 ?

    Cheers mate, any help would be appreciated !
     
  13. Barzo

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    I have not noticed any 'dirty' pixels with Star Wars EP1 & 2 - certainly no black dots over the picture. I no longer have my Pioneer 575 connected, but I'm sure I would have noticed them. Certainly, have not seen the dirty screen at all, and I have had the TV since August! Don't know what to suggest - maybe your component leads are not properly screened, although one would think that would affect all transfers? On a side note, I'm not convinced by the Stars Wars transfers at any rate - they are good, but I was expecting better.

    No - but I do have an X-box.

    No, I don't, but I do know that settings for X-box were different than other sources. Best picture for me was obtained with 'Bright' setting, 'Cool' colour temp, Digital VNR 'Min', SuperDigipure 'Max', Movie Theatre 'off', Colour Digipure 'On'. With these settings, X-box looked marvellous - crisp, well defined edges, great colours, etc. Also check you have the PS2 connected RGB to Ext 1 or Ext 2. If you do not have an RGB Scart, get one. TV does not like low quality sources (e.g. composite), although it does a great job with S-video. I now have my X-box connected component.

    Note, there may be one reason for 'crap' picture. If you have your PS2 connected to Ext 1, and it is running at 60HZ, it will be displaying a composite picture. Easiest way to tell if this is so is to go the picture options - if it is RGB, then the only two settings for Digital VNR, for example, will be 'Min' and 'Max'; if it composite you will also have 'Auto (Low)' and 'Auto (High)'. If the latter is true, then you have run accross the same problem that I have (and others on this forum) with 60HZ. Solution is to connect either through S-video (no real loss of quality on this TV) or component (in which case you will need some sort of switcher, as you have the Pioneer connected to Ext 4).

    With DVD, I found the best pic with 575 was obtained with 'Bright', 'Normal' or 'Warm' (depending on movie), Digital VNR 'Min', SuperDigipure 'Min', (Movie Theatre mode should be greyed out if you have connected prog scan) and Color Digipure 'On'. If the pic looks a little soft, try changing the setting on the Pioneer pic menu from 'Normal' to 'Sharp'. You will need to tweak contrast, etc. - easiest way is to use THX setup on one of your Star Wars discs. I turned the 'Sharpness' to nothing. If you still think the pic looks soft, try using 'Max' on SuperDigipure setting (in which case, reset the Pioneer pic to 'Normal'). See what you prefer.

    Hope this helps
     
  14. Abstrakt

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    I’m getting the horizontal line / tearing in 480p mode on my new HV-32P40BU as well. This is a newer model than the P37 & P38 so it should have come with the latest firmware and D.I.S.T. revisions. It’s rather frustrating to see that JVC hasn’t fixed this bug yet.
     
  15. andyboy

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    Barzo

    I have messed about with the settings on the TV and I'm getting some pretty good results, in relation to the PS2 I have found it's best on Standard picture with the options altered to Min, Off, Auto and it seems a lot better but then again the PS2 doesn't put out the sharpest graphics sometimes.

    Couple of questions though :

    My Xbox won't run properly in 60hz mode when I play Halo 2, the text is blurry and the graphics seem to smear, also I can change the options so that Auto (Low) etc are available but if I switch it to 50hz everything is fine.

    It's running through a Joytech AV Control Centre which is fully RGB wired and worked fine with my Philips 28PW6517 and is connected to AV1 (also tried AV2) any ideas ?

    I also get horizontal tearing for a brief period of time when I use NTSC prog scan but it goes away quite quickly, is this the TV or my 575 ? AND can I force my 575 to output NTSC Prog Scan only when playing a PAL disc to eliminate the jaggies until I can replace the player ?

    PS : does anyone know how to access the service menu for the HV28P37SJE so I can correct my geometry (and, in fact how to do this properly without knackering the set ? I need to straighten vertically on each side of the screen - not a lot but it is a bit irritating)

    Sorry for the length of the post , hope you can help ! :rolleyes:
     
  16. sambobo

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    im on my second 28p37 now, the first one had some funny problems. anyway andyboy, the problem your having with your xbox is that in 60hz mode the scart1 port switches to composite, therefore ****e. the way to get around this unfortunatly is to use s-video or component for your consoles (and apparentky uk gamecubes dont output s-video, the bastards), but your xbox should be fine.

    ive started using progscan with my 575 hooked up and i cant tell much difference, are you getting better results?
     
  17. Barzo

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    Can confirm that this is because, in 60HZ, if connected through Scart (I'm assuming Ext 1?), the picture defaults to composite, NOT RGB! In 50HZ, it displays as 60HZ signal!! Solution is to connect X-box s-video or component. No other way round it, I'm afraid. It has nothing to do with your AV control centre. Luckily, if you don't want to connect component (which would need a splitter), you can buy a s-video connection and use Ext 2 or Ext 3 (or Ext 5!). Pic through S-video is very hard to distinguish from RGB on this set.

    TV. Just a 'feature'. If you swap to NTSC interlace, this tearing will disappear. Either that, or choose to live with it - does not happen often.

    Yes, I think so (but it will mean you get the tearing). Check the manual,but there is a way to force the machine to NTSC (holding down power and stop, I think, when turning the unit on) - it is towards the end of the manual.

    I'd be very careful about changing ANYTHING - maybe you might want the services of an engineer, rather than doing it yourself, especially as the TV is still under warranty.
     
  18. andyboy

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    Once again you guys have come through for me ! cheers dudes !

    Andy :clap:
     
  19. andyboy

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    By the way Barzo, is there any real noticeable difference between the quality on screen of NTSC & PAL Prog Scan from a 575 to this TV as, to be honest, I tried my R1 of Vetical Limit last night and apart from background flicker which is inherent in the print of the film it look excellent and equally as good as other R2's I've tried out.

    One interesting sidenote, I tried Halo 2 out of curiosity but prior to that I tested Ghost Recon 2 and it seemed just the same as on my old set, some people on the forums say Halo 2 is not widescreen or appears 'wrong' on their sets - do you think it might be software specific or was it just my eyes ? :confused:
     
  20. Barzo

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    NTSC is better prog scan than PAL on 575 and this TV. NTSC prog scan has no flicker/jagged edges, which can be evident on some PAL discs through prog scan. This is only difference - colour, depth of image, etc. are all brilliant through both connections. If you don't see flicker on edges in PAL prog scan, then don't go looking for it!

    Don't quite understand what you are getting at. If you have your TV settings to AUTO in 'Zoom', then you should not notice a difference. If the X-box game supports w/s, then the display will automatically go to 'full'. If not, it will use the options you set in the menu, and display a 4:3 game either in 'Panoramic'. '14:9' or 'Regular'. If people have their X-boxs connected component, or s-video without Scart, then there is no switching signal sent, so options have to be adjusted manually. If, for example, I had my TV set on 'Full', which I normally do, and play a X-box game which is 4:3 (not 16: 9 compatible), it will look strange - horizontally stretched characters. For example, such a game is 'Hunter: The Reckoning'. I then correct this by using one of the other 'Zoom' modes on my TV. Hope that makes sense! :)
     
  21. sambobo

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    I've been trying out my pioneer 575 on my jvc 28p37 and i cant see any difference between interlaced and pal, even when i stick my nose against the screen. has anybody had any problems getting progscan to work with this tv and have you noticed any difference?

    thanks
     
  22. kenji-san

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    hello all,
    i had the 36p38 too, with the same problem with horizontal line.
    It only appears in 480p, not 525p or 1080i.
    On my tv it could take as long as 1 minute for it to sloowly travel down the screen, and in some of my console games it would be soo appearent. So i couldn't live with it, and sold the tv. When I shell that kind of money out, I want my progressive hi-res picture experience to be perfect. And it was. Apart from that line. So f*** it, there will come another tv another day without that problem. Shame on jvc for not correcting it in later versions!
    Sorry about the rambling, cheers. :)
     
  23. crunchman

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    I am going to buy either the 32" or 36" version or a samsung rptv.

    I was wondering does this problem happen with everything connected via scart.

    Tosh 340-e via component

    I was planning to connect it with these via scart

    ps2
    gamecube
    sky+
    and a vcr

    Wich woud I be able to use via scart if any?
     
  24. Stroker Ace

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    Just a quick note to say that I get screen tearing issues on my JVC HV28P37S - it's pretty much fair to say it's an issue with all DIST sets.
     
  25. sambobo

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    can someone please help me? can you just check your 12 picture mode on your jvc dist tv and tell me if the pictures are pixellated/jagged or if the look smooth and perfectly resized. i thinkmy 28p37 is malfunctioning and the 12 picture mode is the best way to test if the DIST is working properly.

    thankyou to anyone that can check that for me

    sam
     
  26. Bonex

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    Those of you who have the "tearing" problem in 480p, have you ever tried to contact jvc to see what is possible to do? We are trying (I mean in Italy, where I live) to write to jvc, but their answers are ridiculous...
     
  27. GaryB

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    The JVC factory in Scotland are aware of the problem. They are also aware of this thread. Unfortunately neither they or JVC in the UK have been able to reproduce the problem despite extensive testing. If anyone has a particular trick to get this to show up, let me know.
     
  28. kenji-san

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    how to reproduce the tearing problem?
    as i said, in my case it showed up,and was very visible and annoying, in nearly all of my 3d gamecube games when playing them in 480p.
    also playing some 480p ntsc dvds are also fine ways of showing off the tearing problem.:thumbsup:
    so, hook up a 480p video source, have a moving picture on for about 30min-1 hour at most, and it will show up. Preferably a picture moving on the vertical axis (up and down), and it will show up real good. :rolleyes:

    edit: in other words, if jvc tried to test 480p with some sort of drama movie dvd with slow moving pictures, chances are they wont see it. Also, they are probably to clueless to know what to look for. If anyone with the tv has a videcamera, film the tearing when it happens, and send it in.
    In my case, Jvc Denmark,staying true to tradition, didnt have a clue of course, and just said that "it sounded like a technical problem", and that i should have it sent back for repair.
    Which would drag out for ages, and probably would be sent back with a notice saying "no problem found, please pay £60 to cover all charges".
    That's happend to me before. :mad: :mad:
     
  29. Bonex

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    It's a bit reassuring to know that jvc is trying to reproduce the problem. The guy who posted those big images of the line, in page 1 of this thread, tried to write them, and they answered that it's because the tv only supports 525p/i and not 480p/i for ntsc... but aren't they just two different ways to describe the same thing (ntsc prog scan)?

    The problem (in the problem) is that the "line" appears when it decides to... I've been able to watch a 50 min dvd (r1 of course) last week with no tearing, then another day I popped in a dvd just to see how it looked on this tv (it's 2 weeks that I have the 36p38 ) and it appeared after 15 mins... To make it go away I usually switch to AV3 and then back to AV4 using the P+/P- buttons on the remote (unfortunately this trick is very slow).
    How to describe it? In my case, all of a sudden an orizontal "line" appears near the bottom of the screen, at about 3/4 of the screen, and the part of image that's over it seems to be 1 or more frames ahead of what's under of it. Slowly (I mean very sloooooooowly) the line goes up, but I don't know what happens next, because I immediately do the trick to get rid of it. It's like if the tv loses the v-synch.

    This problem happened to me when watching ntsc dvd's (r1 dvd of japanese animation, to be more precise) with a Panasonic S75 player and a Pioneer 470 player in p/scan mode. People says it doesn't happen in interlaced mode, but I haven't tried it extensively, because I prefer the player's own deinterlacer for those dvd's (anime often have jerky 3:2 pulldown cadence that's handled better by the player from what I have seen). Ah, and the Pio isn't even multiregion, so the culprit is not the mod..

    Console + the technicians' children. When the line shows up they have all the time to investigate it, as it so slow to go away. Or a p/scan multiregion player and an ntsc dvd of their liking... and some patience.
    Or... maybe this doesn't happen with a jvc player? :devil:
     
  30. GaryB

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    I'll make sure the JVC factory is aware of the two posts above. They have tried extensive tests with assorted JVC players and nothing has shown up so far. They are happy to go out any buy players know to show the fault to get to the bottom om this, so they will probably get one of the players mentioned in Bonex's post.

    If anyone else has figured out a way to make this show up, post it here. The more information the factory get, the quicker they can get to the bottom of this.
     

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