1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

JVC HD2K, 1080P short review

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Gordon @ Convergent AV, Apr 25, 2005.

  1. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,999
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,803
    I was lucky enough to get to play with a JVC HD2K projector last week. For those interested it’s a native 1920 x 1080 3 panel projector. The technology is DILA or LCOS. I wont go in to full details of the technology but it’s basically like a cross between DLP/LCD. It’s been around for ages but there have never been many manufacturers using it.

    DILA projectors have very high resolutions and the gap (fill factor) between the pixels is very very small so you don’t get screen door effect. The issues with them have tended to be poor contrast and ropey uniformity issues. The units we had at both Events were mighty bright but were obviously not uniform across the screen. One side being green and the other purple.

    The HD2K comes with a partnering Faroudja scaler that is designed to output 1080P at exactly the timings the head unit needs. I unboxed everything and set it up with a feed from an Arcam FMJ29. First disc I put in was LOTR ROTK. Scene where Golum talks himself in to taking the hobbits to Shelobs lair. Actually I adjusted the contrast/brightness/colour etc before I did this…..Actually before I adjusted the image I had to struggle to get a stable picture. The image kept scrolling horizontally around and around. Unplugging and turning off the scaler seemed to fix it……Once I got it going I was expecting a washed out nasty picture but instead got a very pleasing picture indeed. The black levels were down around HD2 DLP area but the smoothness of the image was far superior to any DLP I’ve seen. So I thought I’d stick on one of my favourite music DVD’s. It’s a 60Hz US disc. Stuck it in the player and got the blue screen of death….OUT OF RANGE it said on the display….I was confused….how could it not work with a 480i source? Put a R2 disc back in….no probs image came back…put back in the R1 disc, OUT OF RANGE….OK, as Jeff would say Read The F Manual…..So I read instructions for the two boxes again. No nothing really there. Then I remembered seeing a menu in the head unit that had 50Hz and 60Hz options. Went in and saw it was at 50Hz. Changed it to 60Hz….and immediately got the OUT OF RANGE on screen. No problem I thought, I d seen that the scaler had the ability to set different resolutions dependant on PAL or NTSC sources. Went in to it’s set up menu and discovered that it will not allow any refresh rate other than 50 or 75 Hz for PAL material. So if you want to watch 50 and 60 Hz source material you need to keep navigating the head unit menu tree to flip 50/60. Not the best solution.

    I decided to bin the scaler that came with it and use the dealers Lumagen HDP Pro. Wired it all up and set the scaler to output 1080P@60. Switched it all on and got a not so stable image. Then I remembered that Lumagen added an extra timing option for 1080P output. Selected that and bingo….seems it’s specifically for the JVC as it’s timings are non standard. Now I could send all sources to the projector without having to change the way the head unit worked. Excellent.

    Did a measurement of the the greyscale and had a look at uniformity using the scalers in built test patterns and VIDEO ESSENTIALS. The uniformity was excellent. Really astounding in fact for a DILA. No traces of any colour shifts across the screen at any IRE level. The greyscale was pretty good too although it was minus red from 60ire down and plus blue from 60ire up. After calibrating the RGB gamma curves in the scaler it was pretty much bang on across the range. Put on Run Lola Run, Underworld, ROTK, Robbie Live at Knebworth. Well I have to say that there is something beguiling about this combo. It looks more like a CRT than any fixed pixel thing I’ve seen. No screen door and no fatiguing picture make up artefacts. Extremely detailed image that has the magical 3D quality I look for in a good picture. Only in the really dark scenes do you lose the 3D effect but on Run Lola Run when Mani and Lola run out of the supermarket to the tune of “what a difference a day makes” you would swear you were looking out a window….and that was just a PAL DVD. I never had time to dig the HD tape deck out the boot of the car so I can only guess what actual HD would look like on this thing. What more can I say……well, it’s got a short throw lens and it’s hot and it’s noisy….but I do like the picture.

    Not a full on review but my thoughts after having an hour or two with one of these things. I don’t think any dealers in UK have one on demo but I’m sure the UK distributor can help you get a demo. Mine was done at PJ HIFI and I thank them for giving up their demo suite for the afternoon. The screen incidentally was an 8ft wide Studiotek130 with Microperf. If anyone has any questions just ask. I’m out all day now but will check up on my return.

    Gordon
     
  2. phillfyspoon

    phillfyspoon
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    2,128
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Ratings:
    +76
    Get some 1080p on there download some from usenet.
     
  3. KraGorn

    KraGorn
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,740
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    Warrington
    Ratings:
    +27
    Er, price Gordon? :D
     
  4. PJTX100

    PJTX100
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    8,129
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +562
    ...if you have to ask... :D
     
  5. RTFM

    RTFM
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,014
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Horsham, West Sussex
    Ratings:
    +17
    Hi Gordon,

    Thanks for the short review. Sounds like an interesting piece of kit. How did you find shadow detail compared to DC3 DLP ?

    Cheers

    Jeff :rtfm:
     
  6. ReTrO

    ReTrO
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2000
    Messages:
    3,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    High Wycombe, Bucks, UK
    Ratings:
    +59
    Cheers for the review Gordon. :thumbsup:

    If anyone needs any info that Gordon or Elliot can't supply, then let me know.
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,999
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,803
    Jeff: On the Underworld and ROTK stuff I was suprised how good it was actually, I certainly didn't think anything was lacking...... It's quite a different experience from single chip dlp's.

    Price: I htink it was supposed to be around £15,000 with the faroudja scaler......will find out how much with and without.

    G
     
  8. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2001
    Messages:
    12,437
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Surrey. UK.
    Ratings:
    +2,099
    I missed this earlier, but that's an interesting review Gordon, thanks. Do you think the uniformity improvements are due to newer (improved) panels or was this just a good unit do you think?

    JVC have only recently started selling the head seperately now haven't they?

    Gary.
     
  9. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,999
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,803
    Not sure why the uniformity was so good. For others reading I should explain that DILA technology can be susceptible to damage from movement of the panels. This microscopic movement causes these colour shifts at different light intensities. The high costs for good DIla is possibly down to the time taken to carry out the shading adjustments to a panel to make sure it is all the same colour across the screen. Those of you who have Sony VPL10's etc and who've been in to the service, service menu wll no doubt remember the nutter multi point rgb shading adjsutments they have.....well same idea for DILa...and can you imagine how many zones there must be on an 1080p panel...eek....That's just one fo the reason William Phelps gets paid the big money for calibrating them. (I think he also does custom LUTS (look up tables) to get gamma he wants and lower black levels.

    Gordon
     
  10. ReTrO

    ReTrO
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2000
    Messages:
    3,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    High Wycombe, Bucks, UK
    Ratings:
    +59
    Cost wise (SSP) for the JVC DLA-HD2K we are looking at:

    Head unit only
    £15,357.25
    (£13,070.00 ex VAT)

    Head unit & scaler
    £17,742.50
    (£15,100.00 ex VAT)

    Regards
     
  11. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Messages:
    7,085
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Welwyn, Herts
    Ratings:
    +825
    Has anybody else seen this projector?
     
  12. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2001
    Messages:
    12,437
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Surrey. UK.
    Ratings:
    +2,099
    Try over on www.avsforum.com where I think there are a few owners too.

    Gary.
     
  13. mattmarsden

    mattmarsden
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,444
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +68
    Gordon, you have to manually select between 50Hz and 60Hz? For cutting edge technology thats very primitive!!!

    What scaler will be best suited to this projector? What scaler at the moment can do proper 3:2 and 2:2 inverse telecine for 1080i material?

    Some people prefer the Qualia to the HD2K, what is the UK price for the Qualia?

    How does the Lumagen pro handle converting 50Hz to 60Hz? does it look very steppy?
     
  14. ReTrO

    ReTrO
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2000
    Messages:
    3,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    High Wycombe, Bucks, UK
    Ratings:
    +59
    Matt

    To my knowledge the Qualia isn't availble in the UK currently.
     
  15. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,999
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,803
    Qualia is not yet available...but as I said a while back...watch this space...I said Easter...I was wrong...looks like just after easter...ie....soon.

    Matt: yes not exactly user friendly......The Lumagen is excellent at 50 to 60FRC....There are plenty of folk using them in this way who cannot see any conversion artefacts until they are specifically pointed out to them.

    Gordon
     
  16. mattmarsden

    mattmarsden
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,444
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +68
    Gordon, thanks for the reply. Is the Lumagen doing proper inverse telecining on 1080i film based material? If not, how long do you think it will be until it is implemented.

    Have you seen the Qualia, Gordon? I would be interested in your opinions in it verses the HD2K. The avsforum seems divided by the two, some big names such as William Phelps prefering the HD2K, and other respected members prefering the Qualia. I'm guessing its very subjective, and both are excellent. I have heard that the colours are amazing on the Qualia, and I think if they were better than the HD2K that would sell the Qualia to me - HD is all about eye popping colours!!!
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,999
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,803
    Matt: In USA I've seen Qualia lots of tiimes and the HD2K a few. The only time I liked the HD2K was when I saw WM's modded Faroudja one at CES this year. I saw it at CEDIA last September as well but it wasn't all that great a demo and the G90 in the room next door to it looked nicer (but softer)....I don't think either were at the top of their game. I had also seen the HD2K at CEDIA UK last June but it was brief and they were using a HTPC and it wasn't that great a demo either....

    Qualia is something I am keen to get to play with here. For me its the most likely hi-end candidate. It should work at 50 and at 60 and at 24SFP. It's physically the most beautiful piece of projection engineering I've seen. However I've never been able to view DVD on one...only custom supplied HD on BluRay or D5tape. at Sony stores or in Sony presentations...Rest assured that when there's one in UK for me to play with I'll let everyone know.....and I don;t think we'll need to wait too long.

    Gordon
     
  18. mattmarsden

    mattmarsden
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,444
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +68
    Gordon, I'll be perfectly honest - I only want for HD. Having acquired much HD from the states, and with HD-DVD looming on the horizon I wouldn't want to waste bulb life with crappy SD!!! I've got a plasma for that!!

    I think the Qualia is certainly the one to beat. Absolute black levels are not imperative for me, but highly resolved shadow detail is - I hate the washed out merging shadow effect of LCD - so I hope the Qualia can deliver in this area also. In all other areas I believe it can beat the greatest of 9inch CRTs, and thats almost out of the box, no lenghty convergance, setting up memories for different input signals etc. I even hear the built in processor is excellent for 1080i material.
     
  19. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,999
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,803
    Matt: Sorry meant to say that they are currently working on 1080i film detection. I cannot say when it'll be out. It's done when it's done as they say.

    Gordon
     
  20. They

    They
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2002
    Messages:
    171
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Bristol
    Ratings:
    +0
    Pardon me for adding another product to this interesting thread, but I feel the Fujitsu LPF-D711 3LCD projector is worthy of consideration for those mulling over LCoS or 3-chip DLP. Particularly if Fujitsu decide to sell it for around £16000 rather than its original idea of £20k (which is taking the **** when it's $24 in the US!).

    I participate in the review process for AVTech (within HiFi news) and have witnessed many 'high-end' projectors including 3-chip DLP, D-ILA, 3LCD and DLP Cinema. The 'consumer' projector I have been most impressed with overall is the D711 which uses 3 Epson 1080p transmissive LCD panels and a rotating polarizer for the dynamic black system (in place of a dynamic auto iris). If you are going for a really huge screen to fill a large proportion of your field of view then LCoS has advantages in terms of its smooth image rendition, which is quite impressive.

    The D711 is reviewed in the July issue of HiFi News.

    Cheers.

    David.
     
  21. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,999
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,803
    David,

    It's on my research list as well.....I have one of my other dealer spies trying to get hold of one for evaluation. I'm well in to research mode....need to have lots of toys for Event3.....

    G

    Gordon
     
  22. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,999
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,803
    Just an update on this. The Fuji that THEY talks about will be at CEDIA UK show in Birmingham from Monday on. I'm helping them set it up. I've talked with the US ISF guy who as done the most with them and am "tooled up" for the job. Looking forward to seeing what it can do. Also expect news about Qualia at the end of the week after..............

    Gordon
     
  23. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,064
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,150
    We've got a barco dp100 in the screening room . ( massive thing looks like a fridge , I can pretty much fit my head into the lens hood).

    This was the best digital projector we could find for looking at digital film ( not video more like what you get in a cinema with a digital projector but ours isn't compressed).Whilst we like it we still don't regard it as being 100% accurate for film grading issues and we have some worries with the peak brightness.

    ( as these things are used in actual theatres we are a bit suspect about the peak output being adequate for a really large screen as its only nearly acceptable for our much smaller screening room)

    The impressive thing is though we looked at the qualia when we were deciding on a unit and the tech bods reckoned it was within spitting distance of the dp100 for one fifth the price.
     

Share This Page

Loading...