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JVC GR DVP7 / Sony DCR-IP7 / Canon MVX1i - which one?

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Editing Forum' started by WebReaper, Jul 15, 2002.

  1. WebReaper

    WebReaper
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    Looking to buy a DV cam. It's not for anything which requires amazing quality - just home vids to send to relatives abroad, etc.

    Size is pretty important - I want something that I can sling in a coat pocket (or the wife's handbag) and use when we want (i.e., not something I feel I ought to use 'cos I've gone to the trouble of lugging it with us).

    I've had a look at the JVC and Sony models 'in the flesh' and they're both about the size/weight I'd want. I was surprised that, given the marketing gumph, the Sony machine was basically exactly the same size as the JVC. The MicroDV seems to be a bit of a gimmick, and the idea of being forced to use Sony's (inevitably cr*p) software doesn't sound appealing.

    I'm told that the Canon has superb quality, but it sounds like it'll be that extra bit bigger (not forgetting the extra 300g weight) so I think that makes it impractical.

    I'd be willing to go to £900-1,000 if it'll get me quality *and* portability, but at the moment the JVC's tag of £700 (I won't be paying VAT) seems very tempting.

    So, the question is, why should/shouldn't I buy the JVC? It is my current favourite. However, other people have told me that the Carl Zeiss lens is something to look out for.

    Are there any other makes/models I should consider? If so, can anyone point me in the direction of sites with reviews/specs/etc?

    Thanks

    Mark
     
  2. gringottsdirect

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    Buy the JVC GR-DVP7, it should delight.
     
  3. Matt F

    Matt F
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    I'd second that - I bought a DVP7 a week ago and it's fantastic - picture quality is outstanding and it seems to have pretty much every feature you could ask for (apart from a built in flash). It has handy little things as well like the inbuilt lens cover - a small feature but it means you can't lose it like you could a removeable lens cap - you just slide it down and off you go.

    I think it's easy to be tempted by Sony's Carl Zeiss and Panasonic's Leica lenses but, if the results I'm getting are anything to go by, JVC have certainly put a fine lens on the front of the DVP7. It's also worth remembering that, IMO, although the images produces by DV camcorders are great, we're not talking about the kind of resolution and detail you can get from a 35mm still camera where you may be able to notice the difference that a Leica or a Carl Zeiss lens (or some of the better Nikkor lenses) can provide.

    Matt.
     
  4. WebReaper

    WebReaper
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    Thanks for the feedback. That all sounds very promising. :D

    I'm not worried about the flash, although I was wondering about how the camera copes in low-light situation. For example, if we were filming at a wedding disco, that sort of thing. I'm presuming it's okay (the last camera I used was a Video8 one about 8 years ago, and it was adequate) but have either of you tried it?

    Also, I'm not worried about trying to match the quality of a 35mm camera (I presume you were meaning for still shots). I already have a Canon SLR and a Nikon LS40 filmscanner, which is how I capture any digital stills that I require. However, it would be handy to have the still facility in the JVC for the odd moment when I want to grab a pic when quality isn't important.

    Cheers

    Mark
     
  5. Matt F

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    I've used the DVP7 indoors (it was dark outside) in a fairly well lit room and the results were pretty good. There is a video lamp attachment available for it which might be worth investigating.

    I wasn't meaning, by the way, that you could match the quality of a 35mm SLR - I was just suggesting that the resolution of DV camcorders (for moving pictures or stills) is not great enough for you to be able to tell the difference between a Zeiss/Leica lens or a JVC lens. For example, most digital camcorders' still picture resolution is around 1 mega pixels whereas the equivalent resolution for 35mm film (100 a.s.a.) is something like 20-30 mega pixels!

    As for still pictures on the DVP7, I haven't tried it yet but at 1.2 mega pixels it should compare favourably with the images produced by the cheaper dedicated still digital cameras.

    Matt.
     
  6. WebReaper

    WebReaper
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    Ah, I see what you mean about the lense thing.

    I think I'll be popping down to AskDirect.co.uk's store on Tottenham Court Road to have a look at one in person, and if I like it enough, I think I'll do the deal!
     
  7. WebReaper

    WebReaper
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    I've now had a look at the cameras. When you compare the JVC GR-DVP7and the Sony PC101 next to each other, there's no competition - they're so close in size, and the JVC has numerous features missing, such as analogue input, and so on. For example, you can fit an external mic to the JVC, but it's a proprietrary connection, so has to be a (pricey) JVC one.

    The Sony's slightly heavier, but this is almost totally down to the fact that the battery's a bit chunkier. Which, IMO, is fair enough, as the guy explained that realistically you get 1-1.5hrs out of the standard Sony battery. The JVC is good for 30-40 minutes in reality. Not much use then, really, if you *have* to carry a spare battery. Oh, and there are about 8 kinds of batteries for the Sony, going all the way up to the daft but practical brick-sized 8-hour job. The JVC's max battery is good for < 2 hours. :-o

    The JVC has no thread for attaching filters, meaning that protecting the lens or adding polarising filters isn't possible. Etc., etc. I could go on, but really there's no point. ;-)

    Oh, and the best price I've found for the JVC is at www.askdirect.co.uk (£829 inc vat). The best price I've found for the PC101 is from www.camerasdirect.co.uk (£884 inc vat).

    So the Sony wins hands down, IMO.
     
  8. Matt F

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    Swings and round-abouts I'd say - my big no-no was a bottom loading tape mechanism so that ruled both Sonys out for me.

    The microphone position on the DVP-7 did cause me a few concerns and the separate JVC mic (as you say) is pricey. However, What TV & Video said (when they reviewed it) that the audio using the built in mic was sharp and clear (despite it pointing upwards) and a significant improvement over the previous DVP3 model. They concluded that the improvements to audio over the DVP3 removed its one Achilles' heal.

    The filters issue is a good point although the very front of the JVC lens looks to me like a clear glass rather then the actual front element - in other words, if you scratched it I reckon just the front bit could be replaced rather than the whole lens - I'm not going to try it though. Mind you, one further thought on this - I've always used a UV/Skylight filter as protection on every SLR lens I have but I've never actually scratched or marked any of them - I guess if you're careful...

    At the end of the day you pays your money and takes your choice and, t be honest, I don't think you'll be disappointed with any of the models you've mentioned.

    Matt.
     
  9. gringottsdirect

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    Totally agree.
     
  10. altruist

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    Hi Webreaper.
    I have a Sony TRV-900E for the past 6 months. Size does matter a lot and SONY has some really pocket sized models. But going for them makes a small compromise on the quality.
    Sony provides HAD CCDs which will have quicker recovery time when they change between well lit and dim lit surroundings. This shortens the black out time of the video in the movie.
    Sony's Carl Zeiss lens are excellent for resolution and the 1 megapixel range of CCDs (effective being 900kpixels) in the present models is really worth to be considered.
    Besides that, SONY models have good microphones which donot pick up the camcorder motor noise.
    I still would suggest and opt for SONY.
    Arul
     
  11. Dodger

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    I have been looking at the Sony models - PC 8, 9, 101 & 120 and do not know which to buy. Is the 9 the model to go for or the 101? I am concerned that it has not got as good a reviews as the 9 and I do not need all that the 120 has ie bluetooth etc.
     
  12. jon1800

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    I too am looking at the JVC DVP-7 and the Sony PC-8/101.

    I have seen both in the "flesh" and find it hard to make my final choice.

    The Sony seems easier to operate, the JVC has nore "pixles" etc etc.

    I need to make my decision by Friday................50/50 at the mo !!!:(


    jon
     
  13. sledwich

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    Is there any reason why you have not considered the Pany NV-GX7??
     
  14. gringottsdirect

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    Panasonic NV-GX7B is excellent.
     
  15. jackal2513

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    "I have been looking at the Sony models - PC 8, 9, 101 & 120 and do not know which to buy."


    Dodger,

    pc6: same as pc8 but no dv out

    pc8: same as pc9 but with no memory card (which is crap so a cheap pc8 is a very good buy IMO if you can find one)

    pc9: has the memory card but stills are rubbish

    pc101: replaced teh pc9, stills are better

    pc120: even better stills and also better picture aulity but expensive and bigger and no touchscreen (which works brilliantly)



    if you don't want stills then get a cheap discontinued pc8

    if you want stills then get the pc101, or a pc8 and a 200 quid stills camera

    if you have money to burn and dont mind a larger size then get the 120, its the king


    (im selling my PC9 to get a 101 btw)
     
  16. lloyd

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    I've looked at most of the cams mentioned above as well.
    My only concern about the JVC DVP-7 was build quality and reliability. Has anyone had any breakdowns??
    Have you seen the Canon MV5 series? Very small and comfortable to hold. They look very good to me.
     
  17. Eduardo

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    I have seen the JVC DVP-7 for £683.00 on www.hispek.com and think this would swing me over the Sony IP7 at over £200.00 more.

    Ed
     
  18. julianwood

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    How much bigger is the Sony 101 and 120 than the IP7 or JVC.

    I have an Olympus Z3000 Still Camera which is getting a little chunky. I generally take stills at 1280x768. If I can get an all in one which is pocket size, then the Olympus can take a back seat.

    I have a friend with the IP7 and he likes for its size and ease of use but hasn't connected it to a PC or MAC which I would want to do to write DVD's or VCD's.

    I am a bit worried about the Sony Firewire Software. Apparently it sucks and can decrease the video quality when you download????
     
  19. Eduardo

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    it's only a bit bigger, however it's not pocket size.

    Best to go and have a look in the shops.

    I had a look tonight in dixons & the sony centre.

    I like the IP7 for size, but the JVC for quality of picture and downloading to PC for editing.
     
  20. julianwood

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    Had a look at the 120 and I think it's too big.

    Does anyone think there will be an updated IP7, the IP8 with the bugs ironed out?
     

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