Jvc Dr-m1

Hi

I think you'll find what I say is bang on - and of course your not exactly without bias are you? As a purchaser of the DVDR7000 (Pioneer's one and only contribution to UK DVDR for the last 2 years!). I assume you'll be upgrading your recorder when the Pioneer's come along? Preferrably to something that can actually do RGB in (unlike the DVDR7000)?

Your incredible Rasczak, you are trying to discredit me while making other readers think you are the number one authority on DVD Recording by telling people I have a DVD-RW recorder and so I am biased and must be making it all up. So we assume then that you do not own a DVD-RAM recorder and are completely neutral :) (A case of the pot calling the kettle black).

No I have no intentions on upgrading, what I have now fills my needs perfectly.

Ok - one second your saying that the Pioneer A06 "utilizes a sequence that enables writing under the best conditions at all times" and now your saying that is entirely seperate from the claim of an increased "re-writing performance"? What then causes this claim? Magic? Or the defect management chip as part of the A06 hardware?

I am not saying anything, those were quotes from the links I gave. New Pioneer drives support defect management, they also support methods of writing to RW that allow it to perform better. Why do the two things have to be linked or the same thing? It is quite clear to me.

Having spoken to the UK Pioneer rep I know the UK 310 is based on the A05 without a shadow of a doubt.

Mmm, the Pioneer reps I have spoken to invariably get things wrong, they are salesmen, not technicians designing the things! :)

I don't think I've ever argued this. I fully accept as DVD-RAM came first (for PCs anyway) it is based on older technology. But that doesn't mean it's not sound which is why is has so many more read/writes.

Which was one of the points I was making. Who needs 100,000 rewrites? The only reason Panasonic went the extra mile in adding more layers to the spec to increase the number of rewrites was due to DVD-RAM being targeted at commercial uses when it first arrived, not so Aunt Jean can record 200,000 hours of Eastenders before needing to buy a new disc (assuming 2 hour rate). I doubt any Panasonic unit is expected to last as long as 400,000 hours of use to use up a whole disc in this way! (200,000 hours to record and 200,000 hours to watch back). This is around 20 years of continuous television watching!!! A DVD-RW disc assuming the old engine and only 1000 rewrites is more than adequate for the majority of people!

All I am saying is that DVD-RAM having a life of 100,000, while sounding good, isn’t a reason to buy DVD-RAM, unless you are planning to live for ever watching TV :)

Check the specs in the trade magazines as well and you'll find the drive code is "DVR-A05".

Trade magazines, why on earth would they quote the drive code as DVR-A05, this is the retail drive code for the boxed writer that comes with software etc. How is that at all relevent to a set-top recorder? Besides internally the drives are not the same as the PC Drive, they are phyiscally different and can not be swapped out. They may be based on IDE/ATAPI but have smaller ribbon cable connections and different fan/fitler arrangements. The drive code would never be the same as the PC drive.

Regards

Philip
 
Your incredible Rasczak, so if I am biased for having a DVD-RW recorder, then the same holds true for you I guess
To some degree - although I pride myself on having DVD+RW and DVD-RAM recorders in my house as well as two PC drives that can burn to DVD-RW. When the upcoming JVC is released I will buy that as well giving me a set-top DVD-RW recorder. So yes I am biased (I know which format I prefer :D) but then I also have also had extensive practical use of all of them ;)

New Pioneer drives support defect management, they also support methods of writing to RW that allow it to perform better
You mean the A06 does - and the 310/510 does not have this drive...

Mmm, the Pioneer reps I have spoken to invariably get things wrong, they are salesmen, not technicians designing the things!
But then this was at a technical fair - and the people there know the product very well. From what they said I think the Pioneer 510 is going to be the product to watch - doesn't mean it's got the DBI Chip though.

All I am saying is that DVD-RAM having a life of 100,000, while sounding good, isn’t a reason to buy DVD-RAM, unless you are planning to live for ever watching TV
I should point out that all the life-expectancies are "upto x read/writes". Many, of all formats, will fail long before that. But, statistically, if designed for a longer lifespan the media will last longer. It just ensures the odds of it failing with that 'dearly wanted' recording does not happen!

And, yes, I do want to live forever watching TV... :D
 
Hi

I should point out that all the life-expectancies are "upto x read/writes". Many, of all formats, will fail long before that. But, statistically, if designed for a longer lifespan the media will last longer. It just ensures the odds of it failing with that 'dearly wanted' recording does not happen!

They do not fail of course or suddenly stop working at a set number. Jitter value increases for each rewrite, they start to decline from the very first write. DVD-RW is set at 1000 rewrites as generally from that point onwards jitter passes the DVD Specification of 8%, however most modern equipment should cope with that rewrites should go higher. TDK were seen as saying their DVD-RW discs are okay upto 10,000 rewrites (before the A06), however I can not find that referenced on the net anymore, but will try.

Just what is the DBI chip?

Regards

Philip
 
The DBI (Defective Block Information) Chip is the feature by which defect management occurs in the A06 drive. If the drive reports, using the Defective Block Information EDR (Enhanced Defect Reporting), that a DVD-RW disc is defected in a specific area this chip allows it to search for the next rewritable area. It has the potential (in PCs or Set-tops with HDD or even onboard memory) to be able to automatically skip the defective area next time the disk is recorded to. The chip has onboard memory which enables the host (i.e. the PC or set-top) to perform the defect management operation at a later time. Thus, no influence appears during the real time recording.

It's a great technology - way ahead of DVD+RWs "defect management" and better than the hardware process DVD-RAM goes through. The only low point is that it is Pioneer technology that, although will doubtless be available for licence, will almost certainly not be taken up by Sony etc who will develop there own (proberly lesser) system.

I would also suggest that defect management is probably over-stated by all camps now - technically DVD+RW has the weakest system (although it's arguable) but it still records well. In no way should that view marr this technology though - the DBI chip is something to get excited about.
 
Hi

Thanks for the explanation, what you basically mean by the DBI Chip is that Pioneers defect management system is included.

While I can appreciate this for data, for video applications I am not so sure the worth. I have been using DVD-RW for over 18 months, with some cheap Princo DVD-RW that has seen better days, (dropped and scratched, dusty, the odd fingerprint although not through my handling!) and I have yet to see a single glitch on any recording. It would be hard to improve on that although there is already some element of defect management through software and the UDF file system. Maybe the hardware chip will remove a layer of complication from the software making the units cheaper to test and program.

Regards

Philip
 
Can the Jvc Dr-m1 be made multi region? excuse if i missed this somewhere :)

Also can i plug my standard sky digital box into the jvc and output that as pal progressive?
 
Can the Jvc Dr-m1 be made multi region? excuse if i missed this somewhere

I've no idea how it's done but you can buy it already multiregioned for about £365.

Also can i plug my standard sky digital box into the jvc and output that as pal progressive?

I am very confident it will do so. It will have to mpeg encode the signal and deinterlace it to record it and so will therefore be able to output this to the screen.

If it is stupid enough to not do this then surely all you would have to do is use the chasing playback?

Cheers,
Cal.
 
I have never seen anything in the spec that says that it can deinterlace an incoming TV broadcast. I assumed that it could only deinterlace (i.e. produce a progressive image from) a prerecorded DVD video film.
Deinterlacing such a DVD is much simpler than de-interlacing a broadcast. With 24 fps film a normal DVD player outputes two interlaced fields for each frame. ie. there is the data to produce an entire progressive frame, repeat it and speed it up slightly to get 50 frames per second.

However with interlaced broadcast material each interlaced field is from a separate frame. Therefore just combining two consecutive interlaced frames will not give you very good results. I'm not sure what deinterlacers such as IScan's Ultra deinterlace broadcasts but I assume it involves a lot of interpolation.
 
Deinterlacers can process tv signals.

Video based dvd's such as tv programs like friends will have the same problems as broadcast tv.

You are right that in prerecorded films the deinterlacer just performs a "weave" of the two fields. But if it were that easy, prog scan would be trivial and nothing to boast about. Any old DVD player could do this after a firmware upgrade.

When a deinterlacer tries to make video prog scan, it has to perform motion adaptive "bob and weave".

ANy thing that moves is line doubled usually by vertical interpolation, whereas anything that is still is weaved together using the two fields. How good a system depends first on the granularity of the motion detection with "per pixel" being the optimum.

Faroudja use DCDi to do this and it is advertised on products such as the PHilips 963SA. DCDi also looks for jaggies along diagonal lines and interpolates diagonally to cure this (a bit like antialiasing in a drawing program like Corel Xara).

In fact a decent deinterlacer has to do this on films too when there is a bad edit or when short scenes of video are sandwiched in the film. Artifacts like telecine wobble can also break the pulldown cadence.

Any decent deinterlacer will have be very good at detecting 3:2 or 2:2 pulldown cadence where it will deinterlace in film mode (weave) and quickly detect when there is a bad edit or video and change into video mode (motion adaptive bob and weave) and then back to film mode again.

Great deinterlacers are adept at detecting pulldown and very fast at switching between video and film modes. They also excel at video mode deinterlacing.

In conclusion, any deinterlacer worth it's salt will be able to deinterlace broadcast tv. Also did you know that broadcast tv also has films?

A dvd recorder might not do this straight from the source but it should be able to do it off it's own dvdr's therefore, like I said, the worst case scenario would be that you would have to record the program and watch it on timeslip say a few seconds later but I'm sure they have thought of that and can connect their mpeg input stream straight to their deinterlacing output stream.

Cheers,
Cal.
 
:eek: Calscot... you have done your homework ;)
I believe Panasonic dvd recorder owners have tried to loop sky through the recorder to watch live tv, this coursed a problem with lipsinc, but I woudn't know if it would be the same for progressive scan.
You could always purchase one and test it for us ;) :devil:
 
I've no idea how it's done but you can buy it already multiregioned for about £365.

Any chance you could post a link as the earlier one to cheaper electricals does not have a multi region option!

I just hope the machine is as good as it sounds!

I WANT ONE NOW !!! :D
 
I believe Panasonic dvd recorder owners have tried to loop sky through the recorder to watch live tv, this coursed a problem with lipsinc, but I woudn't know if it would be the same for progressive scan.

I do this with my Philips 880 with no lypsinc issues as long as the sound comes from the dvdr. A good player should know when its video processing is complete and synchronise the sound at that time. If you take the sound from the sat box then you will definitely have out of sync sound by a second or so.

Hopefully there will be no such problem with the jvc but we'll have to wait a month or so to see.

I'd rather be the second one to buy than the first! ;)

Cheers,
Cal.
 
Where's the cheapest place to buy/order this frrom multi region?

And is it PAL AND NTSC prog scan?

And can we confirm component out - not component out via scart like KISS do? No not the 70's rockers...............silly boy!

Looks like I have found the partner to my pana ae100 :)

Dave, Oldham.
 
Dave

I don't think its available until October. Price for R2 about £360 at unbeatable.
I did spot it recently for about £390 multi-region, can't remember where though :(
I also have the AE100 and am very tempted to go for the DMR1.
Specs look great at www.jvc.co.uk
 
on the JVC site do u have a direct link?

Dave, Oldham.
 
Yes... its not easy to find, click here
 
Your welcome :)
No mention of componant out though :( must be a mistake on the site.
 
Just found a review of the JVC XV-NA7 which uses the same progressive scan technology as the DR-M1.
It doesn't look good.

The progressive scan output proved something of a non-event, even given its already limited use. Feeding an InFocus LP530 projector with the NA7's component output via a long Nordost interconnect resulted in an unacceptable level of ringing and smearing of high-frequency detail. The JVC is clearly at fault - we have not had any such trouble with other component-ready players. So we gave up and used the RGB Scart with a more conventional TV set, precisely the type of display with which a £300 player would typically be partnered. Here, results proved to be far better. There's a lot of detail 'bite', and pictures are untroubled by either noise or MPEG artefacts. I was also impressed with the quality of JPEG still image playback (you can play CD-Rs with digital snapshots burnt onto them). Our only criticism here is that larger images take a long time to finish loading. Also worthy of mention are the zoom - which goes all the way up to 1024x - and what JVC calls Digest, which captures stills and displays them in a 3 x 3 grid

Taken from a review from www.homecinemachoice.com
 
Emailed cheapelectricals.co.uk today - they expect to have the recorders in within 3 - 4 weeks!
 
Hope I'm not duplicating info already known, but due to my frustration with lack of info (ref connections) on JVC UK's site I looked elsewhere and found more info on the French web site. I know it's not exactly the same model, but I'd assume the only difference to the UK model will be the tuner.

See

http://www.jvc.fr/product.php?id=DR-M1SLEF

or for a PDF datasheet

http://www.jvc.fr/files/catalog/dr-m1_fr.pdf

It's a while since I did French at school, but my interpretation of the connectivity is:

Video Output:
Component
S-Video
Scart #1 (RGB, s-video or Composite)

Audio Output:
Optical
Coaxial
Analogue (phono)

Video/Audio Inputs at rear:
Scart #1 (s-video or composite plus analogue audio)
Scart #2 (s-video or composite plus analogue audio)

Video/Audio Inputs at front:
s-video, composite and analogue audio (phono)
DV (i-link)

All in all, looks very nice to me. Can't wait to check one out when available. Was looking at buying another Panny to partner me E30, but I'll wait to see this first.

Also I note it doesn't play SVCD's (only VCD's) contary to a couple of things I've read elsewhere.

Rob.
 

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